RIFT - Color, banding, and image warping issues. Any solutions? HELP!

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Definately no in the Vive. I had both the Rift and Vive and the Rift went back - ...

Also your last () implying that Vive owners have banding, but possibly can't see it is surprising after your involvement in this thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/310846-Does-vive-also-have-color-banding-issues).

My apologies fellas -

Understood @Kapow - you're one of the few Vive owners who answered the question. I didn't mean to sound flippant - I was more implying we didn't know how the Vive behaved with the gradients. Maybe I missed something. If the Vive is fine, great - both use the same panels, so the Rift 'should' be able to display the gradients too. I agree Oculus is probably responsible.

I'm on Win10 and can definitely see the ASW changes to the banding now. I wrongly dismissed @spacehamburger before testing it properly (I thought I'd seen the effect he was describing and had a different effect in mind). My error too.

Have read around more last night and will be more careful in future.

Hope Oculus fixes the colour banding, both in normal ATW-only and ASW modes.

 

[dogbite]

Possibly the majority of Rift users don't see the problem, or it's not an issue for them. The first is possible, the second is likely.



3RD possibility?
It has been said that for every 1 person who makes an effort to complain 10 think about it and do nothing. Also given the number of us that participate in this VR forum (mostly the same CMDR's) it seems likely there is a lot larger number of ED Rifters that don't use the forums at all. Some don't have time. Some new visitors could feel intimidated by the fact that everyone seems to know each other. Others may just have trouble getting their smart phones out of their faces long enough to participate. Hard to know without stats.

BTW Did you manage to try a video capture of your Rift image, yet?

 

[dogbite]

The whole discussion has gotten tired fix it already stop pointing fingers FD and Oculus work together and get it solved, enough!

Easy Commander. Wouldn't want you to pop a vein. Perhaps some soothing music will help. Here's one that's great for flying around the galaxy- or making love with your signifigant other when your game don't work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teRiRdu9J1g

 

[Raptoyd]

Easy Commander. Wouldn't want you to pop a vein. Perhaps some soothing music will help. Here's one that's great for flying around the galaxy- or making love with your signifigant other when your game don't work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teRiRdu9J1g

Like it very soothing thanks

 

[dogbite]

Like it very soothing thanks

Quite welcome.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Possibly the majority of Rift users don't see the problem, or it's not an issue for them. The first is possible, the second is likely.



3RD possibility?
It has been said that for every 1 person who makes an effort to complain 10 think about it and do nothing. Also given the number of us that participate in this VR forum (mostly the same CMDR's) it seems likely there is a lot larger number of ED Rifters that don't use the forums at all. Some don't have time. Some new visitors could feel intimidated by the fact that everyone seems to know each other. Others may just have trouble getting their smart phones out of their faces long enough to participate. Hard to know without stats.

Yeah, you're right - possibly a silent majority present. Hard to say without the stats, yes, anyone's guess.
Agree... 'smart phones' may be an oxymoron I just use mine as a phone and a roadmap. Rest of my family is glued to them like its a a vital organ.

BTW Did you manage to try a video capture of your Rift image, yet?

Not yet - last night I couldn't get my poor iphone to charge (the lightning connecter studs are wearing out on the inside). I did manage to get it on charge this morning though, so I will give it a go.
I need to find something to keep the Rift turned on other than holding it awkwardly with my thumb in the nose piece. Then I can concentrate on keeping the phone aligned in the right eyepiece and keep focus. Will get there.

 

[horizone]

I been fighting the colorbanding too since getting the CV1. I've tried clean reinstalls of drivers and even of Windows 10. I've tried various HDMI-range fixes and using displayport adapters. I once drove 120 km just to get another DVI-HDMI adapter to try with (tried three of them).

I've written threads about this here in the forums too. I'm glad it is brought up again.

However, I have sort of come to the conclusion that it is mainly Oculus fault. The CV1 panels are weakest in the dark colours, especially when they must match the left eye and right eye display. To battle this, Oculus have implemented a limited dynamic range in their colorspace. Since 8-bit per colour already is quite limited (that's why we are seeing HDR TV, Ultra HD Bluray and PS4 Pro, products starting to come out), as soon as we start limiting that limited color space it becomes very apparent to our eyes.

Look at this two thread replies from an Oculus employee.

Source: https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/350548/#Comment_350548

(highlighting by me)
Source: https://forums.oculus.com/developer/discussion/comment/362953/#Comment_362953

Oculus have since tried to improve this limitation in updates and I think they are on the limit what is possible with the displays right now.

My only wish is that we can find a unofficial way to alter the color correction/gamma curve thing that seems hardcoded into the Oculus runtime. But I don't think Oculus will ever enable that because it would prove to us all how bad their displays is in the dark range or how uneven the left and right displays are on some headsets.

 

[Raptoyd]

Oculus have since tried to improve this limitation in updates and I think they are on the limit what is possible with the displays right now.

Unfortunately I think you are correct in this statement and we may be at about the best we are going to get for version 1. I hope they realize that a lot of people are going to really focus in on this aspect before dishing out cash a second time so hopefully the next iteration they have some success solving this issue whether it is panels, software, etc whatever is the root cause. Mine is at least playable so just have to suck it up I guess.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

I hope Oculus isn't right on the limit - like Kapow said, the Vive doesn't appear to have the same colour banding issue. Turning ASW off helps, but we should have similar experiences on both Vive and Rift. But something in the Oculus software isn't allowing that to happen.

 

[dogbite]

horizone
Interesting posts , thanks.

"It would help if you could supply screen shots" That old chestnut.
I think those of us who opened tickets have all heard that one. Like nobody at Oculus has seen this. I don't believe that.
The "supply pictures" remark is still being used by Oculus in November and they know, if we could capture an image that would show this they would likely not still be asking. Any reasonable support system would be concerned by the large and growing number of customers having the same issue with their product and act in good faith and at least acknowledge that the issue HAS been duplicated and we are looking at it. They don't need pictues when there is such a large consensus, just a willingness to (support) their customers.

There choice of panel may be contributive, but Vive doesn't have the problem (very similar oled panel) so I question their statement on that. The banding problem may have always been there to a slight degree in situations of high contrast coloring, however it is the degradation of late that has everyone .

I remarked in an earlier post that when I recalibrate my port, I can view a full beautiful color range and the galaxy and nebula looked beautiful. Then, in short order the range drops out, colors wash out and banding then becomes overpowering. Then it will drop in and out (mostly out) during play.
THIS illustrates that the Rift is capable of producing a full range and therefore can be fixed. I suspect their excuses are to avoid RMAing a truck load of Rifts.

The refs you post are from the spring, when we were all started getting our Rifts. Many back in the early runtimes have indicated the color issues were not present and indeed by the end of the summer things were looking better and better with each update. PD control and ATW got us to near as good as it gets. Then the downhill slide. I think there is little doubt they broke something. Oculus devolved something in there code, possibly while trying to manipulate ATW/ASW code. Only they can know.

As I have read and read on this over time, It appears when the Rift was being treated like a 2nd monitor, it was detected as a full color capable display and it may be now that it is not and with changes in runtime, something like Windows throttling FDR in confusion. Whatever is going on, it can be fixed given the will. Keeping up the pressure in forums like this and as many people opening tickets as possible, may be our best hope.

I DO NOT believe this is as good as we can get. What was really good can be made whole, again.

 

[Yololo69]

It seems, reading posts, than lot of people see an improvement on the color banding problem when turning ASW off. It's suprising as color banding appeared before ASW implementation, but perhaps code was already modified... In any case I will definitively retry.

To myself : 2 Tests to made :
1/ Switching ON and OFF ASW in a heavy scene where I can't maintain 90 fps so ASW have to kick
2/ Same test in a light scene where I can maintain 90fps solid, so ASW don't kick (but it's code check my FPS to turn it on in case I went below 90fps).

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

It seems, reading posts, than lot of people see an improvement on the color banding problem when turning ASW off. It's suprising as color banding appeared before ASW implementation, but perhaps code was already modified... In any case I will definitively retry.

To myself : 2 Tests to made :
1/ Switching ON and OFF ASW in a heavy scene where I can't maintain 90 fps so ASW have to kick
2/ Same test in a light scene where I can maintain 90fps solid, so ASW don't kick (but it's code check my FPS to turn it on in case I went below 90fps).

Yes, colour banding was already an issue before ASW. But ASW seems to make the banding worse - so turning it off does make an improvement.
I thiink on 980/Ti, 1070+ GPU's ASW isn't really needed - it's aimed at making VR more accessible to mainstream PCs with less powerful GPUs.
We should be able to set these sort of ASW/On/Off in the Oculus Preferences.

To test the colour banding, a darker space scene is best - or near a star with just the corona visible.
Then, with NumLock ON, you flip between Ctrl Numpad 1 (ATW only, ASW OFF) and Ctrl Numpad 3 (ASW Forced ON).

In my Python cockpit the colour banding shows the worst just to the left of the cockpit, under the left panel (not when its lit up ornage by the panel itself.

Currently trying to capture a video whilst holding my iphone, the Rift and trying to pilot lol.

 

[Raptoyd]

Agree that ASW made it worse. Spaceham was actually right about that once I shut that off and lowered my gamma just below half it is a major improvement at least from where I had mine set not insinuating that some of you might already be at that point. Still needs work but I definitely consider this what we call playable.

Put it this way the best thing they (Oculus) could do for themselves is solve this issue that would go a long way to showing me that can solve issues and would certainly give me a lot more confidence making that 2nd purchase which inevitably I will do because I am hooked on this now for sure.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

I'm sitting next to a star flipping between the ASW On/Off modes, and now I'm not seeing any difference.

I can see the normal colour banding, but turning ASW on doesn't make it worse. Its the same on both on/off modes. This same spot was like chalk and cheese the other night. Wierd.

Edit: Oh... last night the Oculus software updated... maybe they fixed the ASW effect on colour banding? I can't reproduce the problem now. The original colour banding is still there.

 

[Raptoyd]

I'm sitting next to a star flipping between the ASW On/Off modes, and now I'm not seeing any difference.

I can see the normal colour banding, but turning ASW on doesn't make it worse. Its the same on both on/off modes. This same spot was like chalk and cheese the other night. Wierd.

Edit: Oh... last night the Oculus software updated... maybe they fixed the ASW effect on colour banding? I can't reproduce the problem now. The original colour banding is still there.

Yeah that tells me that you already had yours at the place I am at now so I am thinking was much worse than yours. I was seeing just terrible banding around stars. Now it is smaller and not nearly as pronounced you can still see it but mine was terrible. Happy for this little fix from the SPACEHAMBURGER, That name makes me hungry.

 

[BillD]

The banding (called posterisation) is a side affect of the HMD, not the game. The HMD does not have high enough colour gamut to cope with the shade changes in ED (and other games but being dark mostly, ED shows this flaw in the displaye).
It annoyed me to the point that I could not use the Rift in ED even though it was sharper than my vive, then I found an article on the net about a registry setting that turned of a feature in the Rift headset called SPUD. It removed most of the colour banding. I have never turned it back on. It is soo much better.

The warping as you turn tour head is due to the fact that your eyes are not in the ideal focal point for the lenses. Make sure you IPD is set correctly for your eyes and also try to move the headset closer or further as you turn your head to find the right distance. It is possible depending on the shape of your face that you may not be able to find the perfect sweet spot.

 

[dogbite]

The banding (called posterisation) is a side affect of the HMD, not the game. The HMD does not have high enough colour gamut to cope with the shade changes in ED (and other games but being dark mostly, ED shows this flaw in the displaye).
It annoyed me to the point that I could not use the Rift in ED even though it was sharper than my vive, then I found an article on the net about a registry setting that turned of a feature in the Rift headset called SPUD. It removed most of the colour banding. I have never turned it back on. It is soo much better.

The warping as you turn tour head is due to the fact that your eyes are not in the ideal focal point for the lenses. Make sure you IPD is set correctly for your eyes and also try to move the headset closer or further as you turn your head to find the right distance. It is possible depending on the shape of your face that you may not be able to find the perfect sweet spot.

The Rift is quite capable of full color as we see it sometimes, it comes and goes. Oculus spud tool has been issued when people report red tint issues and has been reported not to always help that problem. It has not been offered up (as far as I know) to people, like myself, who have open tickets on the color reduction issue. I can see why spud may have some relief for some people in some cases, though, but the solution lies in Oculus fixing what they broke in software.
Recalibrating the port the Rift is plugged into brings it up to "full dynamic range" assuming you have FDR set in your graphics card control panel. It just doesn't hold. As Windows no longer treats the Rift as a 2nd monitor, it seems to lose this range. It may be that when the Rift starts duplicating frames (ASW) that this causes Windows to misidentify the Rift's capability as a FDR capable device (speculating here). This may also explain why color issues have been reported before ASW, as ATW also duplicates dropped frames. It may also be that, as we all have different hardware, frame duplication occurs at different rates for each of us and thus the effect and it frequency of occurrence varies from user to user. So, say you fly in a direction that doesn't put a demand on framerate and it climbs back to max-Windows eventually bring the color range back up-then you turn toward a more graphics intense view, say galactic core or close by nebula and fps drops-ASW starts duplicating frames- Windows drops FDR again (if it has had time to return that is). This would also explain why some color reduction ( banding) was reported before ASW. This would also explain why turning off ASW (sometimes) improves the color issue to a degree. ATW and direct mode could also being factored in. One thing is clear, when ASW was implemented this became far more severe. The color banding is just part of this color reduction. Most of us were quite happy with our Rifts a few weeks ago and where things were heading and we didn't need a debug tool.


As I posted earlier in the thread, the warping is solved by re-centering your Rift (in Oculus Home) . If you change where you set you sensor or seat each time you set up to play the difference as to where true center is will drift slightly from where Home sets it and the game sets it (especially if you re-center in game a lot). Not setting IPD, may exacerbate the effect for some, but is not the cause of the warping.

 

[dogbite]

Well I finally figured out something, that I had not realized. Why the color is dropping in and out. It seems, it is relative to your distance from a system's star. When you jump in it all looks like crap when looking at nebula and to the galaxy core. As you travel away from the star the color increases in richness. Between 1000 and about 5000 ls the increase starts to build quite fast. How far away to peak color seems to be based on brightness (only tested 3 types). Very bright icy asteroids and moons don't seem to be an issues. It's still fugly when in close and the color banding is at peak. If this holds true ( I have been hurt before), at least at max with ASW off for a (little) boost in color and a gamma adjust, it's playable, at a distance anyway.

My previous speculation that ASW is confusing Windows has some holes, for sure.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Well I finally figured out something, that I had not realized. Why the color is dropping in and out. It seems, it is relative to your distance from a system's star. When you jump in it all looks like crap when looking at nebula and to the galaxy core. As you travel away from the star the color increases in richness. Between 1000 and about 5000 ls the increase starts to build quite fast. How far away to peak color seems to be based on brightness (only tested 3 types). Very bright icy asteroids and moons don't seem to be an issues. It's still fugly when in close and the color banding is at peak. If this holds true ( I have been hurt before), at least at max with ASW off for a (little) boost in color and a gamma adjust, it's playable, at a distance anyway.

My previous speculation that ASW is confusing Windows has some holes, for sure.

The latest Dec2 Oculus update did fix the extra colour banding introduced with ASW (great!). It would be nice to see more detailed patch notes from Oculus.
After the update to v1.10.1.315586 (1.10.1.315393), I can't see any difference in the banding whether ASW is on or off. After several restarts, different games played etc.
That's good news - at least ED players can play with either mode and not suffer worse banding.

@dogbite - there has been a (presumably) shader controlling the galaxy map texture since launch - it is strongest close to the star, and blocks much of the detail, and it ends up posterising all but a few very dark shades. The Milky Way itself can be cut off with quite a sharp boundary too. And of course the star corona is banded. Its just simulating the glare close to the star.
As you move away from the star, the shader strength drops and more detail is allowed to shine through. The 2-3 shades of blue-black in the general space background slowly increases to 20-30 which makes it look a lot better. This effect has always been there, in 2D and in VR. You can see it interacting with the windscreen scratches/smearing too.

As far as I can see, its the recent introduction of ASW that brought out a new series of colour banding issue threads etc - but now ASW's effect has been fixed, we only have the original banding. Its still an issue, but it only shows up in the darkest scenes. I'm only really noticing the banding on moving away from a star after a jump, and in the left side of my Python cockpit in deep space. And in the menus where you can see some circular banding but its not distracting.

The video I took didn't really show the banding - it'll take a dedicated camera enthusiast with proper lenses to get the required photos or video. My iPhone is trying to constantly focus, or adjust aperture (digitally), and the changes in brightness seem to wash out the actual banding. Now the ASW-extra banding is gone, the normal banding is subtle - we can see it fine by eye, but its hard to capture with such poor equipment. I have a decent SLR (Pentax K20D, few years old now), but there's no way can I get it into/focus inside the Rift. Macro lens perhaps?
A capture of the monitor screen is effectively showing what I see in the Rift (not really enough for Oculus Support though). An illustration isn't enough evidence of a problem for Oculus Support?

Moon theatre in Oculus Video is still shocking though... looking up its still a pixelated, posterised mess. But, since you're hardly looking straight up when watching something (I just tested it again with Pulp Fiction, its not a major issue. The moon theatre banding changes depending on the brightness of the movie/video being watched. It's a neat idea, but I guess the shader is poorly executed (no, I can't do better).

All in all, I'm a bit on the fence where the banding is concerned - sometimes its not too bad and I don't notice, and other times its all I see and it becomes annoying. *shrug*

 

[dogbite]

@RR
The slight color bump was still there last night when turning off ASW, for me, with the latest Oculus update. I,also, updated to the latest Nvidia driver ,as well ( saw no change from the previous one). It's not a very noticeable bump and could be hard to detect at certain gamma settings for some.)