Roadmap leaked??

[thistle]

Who said there wouldn't be a whole bunch of work to be done? As a proof of concept within the Cobra engine we can see it's possible, they've already done it, and it looks really impressive. Did I suggest it would be easy, or quick? No, but being able to leverage R&D costs with another product is quite clever.

A significant chunk of the trial and error is done, expanding on that base IP is more efficient.

But it's not R&D from another product. It's graphical assets from the dino game which have nothing whatever to do with procgen landscapes in Elite, and a simple shooting mechanic which similarly has nothing to do with implementing first person into Elite.

I'm of course not saying they can't or won't do atmospheres or legs, I expect them to. But you're pointing to standard game assets in one game and inventing a correlation to the completely different work required for procgen landscapes and first person gameplay. They aren't helped or proven by what is in JP.

 

[lysan]

Personally if space legs = first person shooter then I’d say this is very wrong. Elite is about many other things, and not pew pew gameplay. You don’t invest hours of developing your commander and his ships and wealth, only for him to be shooted by some FPS person somewhere randomly.

If space legs = walking around a controlled spaceport environment in a station with other characters, seeking out that elusive contact who has that illegal star chart you want to trade for credits, all whilst eluding the security team,admiring the view out of the window of a seedy space pub, then ok perhaps I could get on board.the gameplay mechanic of security, pirates, trading, etc should be carried over and reinforced by personal interaction.

One thing space legs should do is reinforce the scale of the ships and the spaces. Walking around the hangar would be awesome.

But to me, Elite is primarily about ships. Spacelegs could break this fundamental of the core gameplay if not handled extremely well.

But I’ve played elite ever since the original bbc version so perhaps I’m biased!

well, DB original idea was you started without a ship, then worked your way up, I know the concept of Elite has changed a lot during the years, nevertheless that is how it was.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think it is fair to say from a man hrs development point of view the ice planet concept art render target would have been a huge ticket item and take many many hrs more than the rest of the update...... Of course for all we know that is 90% complete behind closed doors and will roll into a total across the board planet surface update..or maybe it was barely started and all they did was that icy ground they showed in septemberish 2018.. either way I don't think it is unfair for anyone to suggest that is not getting that update was a big ticket item we did not get
Hell for exploration many players could have spend hrs just looking at the new glacial formations.

Imo FD bought a LOT of patience and good faith with that image to look forward to in December 2018. They cashed in on it for 12 months before letting us know it was not coming

I think we will have to agree to disagree. While I really like the new ice shaders and the picture of the ice planets, they on thier own do not add any gameplay. They are cosmetic updates.

As to squadron carriers, they wouldn't be there without squadrons and I suspect they decided to concentrate on changing the BGS as the previous version made squadron carriers virtuallly pointless and would have limited use. With the new BGS, squadron carriers will now have more purpose. We need to look at the bigger picture.

We know the shaders were created, but I suspect that there were performance issues with them hence the delay. I have no doubt they they will be added in the future and the same with the ice planet updates, but again I suspect they won't be ready until the next major update in 2020.

 

[Quiquag]

if real, SUPER excited for this! Especially if the bases support MP. (I can have friends visit my base).
Have a little spot a few k LY outside the bubble I could call home so no worries of people attacking it if thats a concern.

 

[Stigbob]

Ok my apologies for that that was more aimed at other posters and shouldnt have been at you
I still stand by the fact that the games progress has been far too slow far slower than was intimated.

Yep, which is why people believe things like the forum rumor that it was supposed to be yearly expansions. I used to think that because it was all over the forum to the exclusion of any other info, until I fact checked it in a similar conversation where I payed your part. So I'm hardly having a dig at you as I was in the same boat.

 

[Kaocraft]

lol, did you miss the guy in the chopper firing tranquiliser darts at the dinosaurs, with a hand held rifle? What do you think is the first step in automating procedurally generated landscapes, weather, flora, fauna and buildings for use on planet surfaces? It's been built, tested and successfully sold in JWE.

Next steps: Take the basics, break them up into a modular system so it assembles itself and deploy...

Note: People screech ED is already dead. Pointing out a lack of business acumen is hardly an insult.

LOL @ “next steps”. Yes we’re all in agreement here I think we just differ on the significance of “next steps”. The stuff in JWE is .00000001% of the work, and “next steps” is everything. Pointing a rifle at a dinosaur and making some grass textures and rain effects (which will have to be completely remade due to licensing anyway) isn’t a step at all. It isn’t anything. It’s barely more than concept art.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

well, DB original idea was you started without a ship, then worked your way up, I know the concept of Elite has changed a lot during the years, nevertheless that is how it was.

I would have loved that, having to courier other people's ships whilst we saved pennies for new shiphell even now under cover missions where we do that anyway would be fab to give even seasoned pros the early game experience when they want it without a reset

 

[thistle]

LOL @ “next steps”. Yes we’re all in agreement here I think we just differ on the significance of “next steps”. The stuff in JWE is .00000001% of the work, and “next steps” is everything. Pointing a rifle at a dinosaur and making some grass textures and rain effects (which will have to be completely remade due to licensing anyway) isn’t a step at all. It isn’t anything. It’s barely more than concept art.

Exactly.

 

[Frankymole]

Spacelegs as FPS shooter? Wrong debate. Space;legs needs to be like Gravity. Real jeopardy in space, not psycho shootouts that a hundred other dedicated games already do well.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Spacelegs as FPS shooter? Wrong debate. Space;legs needs to be like Gravity. Real jeopardy in space, not psycho shootouts that a hundred other dedicated games already do well.

Absolutely. The same is true for atmospheric landings. Some people really want them, others argue how is it different to airless moons and this all comes down to how FD implement it.

Will it be skill based fighting the elements where 1 small mistake means you bounce off or burn up (maybe like drop ship landing in aliens) or will it be point your nose keep it in the blue and wait (or press a button and let autopilot do it for you)

Imo without knowing more about how FD choose to add it we have no idea at all about what will be the best

 

[VR Golgot]

Spacelegs as FPS shooter? Wrong debate. Space;legs needs to be like Gravity. Real jeopardy in space, not psycho shootouts that a hundred other dedicated games already do well.

Totally legit debate according to FDev, as mentioned already

I'm totally up for the Gravity leanings too personally. Ideally they'll do their take on both

 

[Stealthie]

We know for a fact that high level misinformation does get responded to.

Also the fact that its been picked up by a news source (and one of the 2 or 3 they've worked with ever) would warrant a response.

Its amazing how you people refuse to accept you're getting space legs. As an (unfortunate) fan of frontier otherwise, its looking pretty certain if they've known about it for a week.

Not sure that'd be the smart move in this case.

I mean, if FDev come out and disavow that "roadmap" they are, effectively, confirming that space-legs isn't happening any time soon - which probably isn't going to help retain the interest of all the people who were hoping it's coming.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Yep, which is why people believe things like the forum rumor that it was supposed to be yearly expansions. I used to think that because it was all over the forum to the exclusion of any other info, until I fact checked it in a similar conversation where I payed your part. So I'm hardly having a dig at you as I was in the same boat.

No it was simple logic. Its not difficult to assume that a company wants to get paid for developing games, and the season pass thing that was being sold covered both time (im pretty sure, at least via delivery estimates of the major patches) and features. I think they were made public around the time of selling to let people know what they getting.

You'd assume that they would release something next only for the expectation to get paid for their work.

The strange part is how it turned out, frontier took multiples of time to deliver what they originally promised, and they decided not to get paid for what came next. Crazy.

Not sure that'd be the smart move in this case.

I mean, if FDev come out and disavow that "roadmap" they are, effectively, confirming that space-legs isn't happening any time soon - which probably isn't going to help retain the interest of all the people who were hoping it's coming.

I don't think i could be very good at speculating about what a company that doesn't say anything wouldn't say

 

[Tikanderoga]

Well, if this is true:
Bloody hell yeah!
Let's hope it's not too grindy though.

And also:
If it's true, someone at FDev might get fired if they find out who leaked it.

 

[Lightspeed]

I doubt anyone at FDev will be worried, Yamiks did a pretty good job at highlighting the flaws in the document. Actually, he produced a .... shock .... more balanced version than OA !

 

[IamMe]

Spacelegs as FPS shooter? Wrong debate. Space;legs needs to be like Gravity. Real jeopardy in space, not psycho shootouts that a hundred other dedicated games already do well.

Absolutely. The same is true for atmospheric landings. Some people really want them, others argue how is it different to airless moons and this all comes down to how FD implement it.

Will it be skill based fighting the elements where 1 small mistake means you bounce off or burn up (maybe like drop ship landing in aliens) or will it be point your nose keep it in the blue and wait (or press a button and let autopilot do it for you)

Imo without knowing more about how FD choose to add it we have no idea at all about what will be the best

I would love that but i doubt it will happen.
They will follow current design with perfectly safe ED space with no danger in it with justification that ships/suit computer care of ships/cmdr safety.
Don't expect enviromental danger in ED, only from NPC or another cmdr ,and by your own choice!

 

[Six6VI]

But it's not R&D from another product. It's graphical assets from the dino game which have nothing whatever to do with procgen landscapes in Elite, and a simple shooting mechanic which similarly has nothing to do with implementing first person into Elite.

I'm of course not saying they can't or won't do atmospheres or legs, I expect them to. But you're pointing to standard game assets in one game and inventing a correlation to the completely different work required for procgen landscapes and first person gameplay. They aren't helped or proven by what is in JP.

Yeah, no. Fiddling around with the first prototype to get it just right is always going to take more time than scaling the mechanics of that model to 'fit' with existing infrastructure, which in turn takes longer than borrowing chunks of what you've already done to create variations then producing duplicates for market.

Why else do you think R&D budgets are a major innovation cost and first generation products are high priced compared to subsequent versions with the benefit of production streamlining? Any procgen system is going to need an initial structure that works in order to replicate functional variations and multiple copies.

The bi and quadrupedal dinosaur skeleton mechanics look good. The muscular animation dynamics appear to function well enough that movement is fluid and aesthetically pleasing, unlike some of the random procgen abominations seen in NMS and I'd way prefer to see JWE based creature forms on ED planets.

Believe whatever you like but inventing prototype IP takes way longer than copy / paste / scale.

 

[Stealthie]

I don't think i could be very good at speculating about what a company that doesn't say anything wouldn't say

I dunno.

It's pretty easy to see that there are things a company shouldn't say outright.

Let's face it, the only two things that the majority of players are currently looking forward to; space-legs and atmo' landings.
If FDev go on the record as refuting the accuracy of this "roadmap" then they are, effectively, confirming that space-legs isn't happening - which is probably going to disappoint roughly half the player-base and set a precedent for how they deal with rumours.

And then what happens if I start a rumour that atmo' landings is being developed?
If FDev come out and deny that, it's going to disappoint the other half of the player-base or, conversely, if they say nothing about it people are going to think "Well, they denied they were developing space-legs but they haven't denied atmo' landings, therefore atmo' landings is on it's way!!!"

They would be, effectively, be creating a system which would allow anybody to guess at what might be developed in future and then eliminate all the guesses that provoked a denial.

Sometimes it is just smart to say nothing.

 

[Six6VI]

LOL @ “next steps”. Yes we’re all in agreement here I think we just differ on the significance of “next steps”. The stuff in JWE is .00000001% of the work, and “next steps” is everything. Pointing a rifle at a dinosaur and making some grass textures and rain effects (which will have to be completely remade due to licensing anyway) isn’t a step at all. It isn’t anything. It’s barely more than concept art.

Except that as a self publisher with multiple product IPs under the same management FDev have the option to license their own assets to other projects as a deductible expense that generates income for another division. One business unit absorbs the R&D costs while another benefits from the work already done.

Keeping the cash flowing in and out of your own pockets is better than using external 3rd parties.

 

[Kaocraft]

Except that as a self publisher with multiple product IPs under the same management FDev have the option to license their own assets to other projects as a deductible expense that generates income for another division. One business unit absorbs the R&D costs while another benefits from the work already done.

Keeping the cash flowing in and out of your own pockets is better than using external 3rd parties.

K.
I don't concede your point about how much leeway they have with re-appropriating assets from JWE, but let's pretend that I do: they're still not using any of those dinosaurs in Elite, and the grass texture tiles and rain effects aren't meaningful steps towards anything actually useable in a procedural multiplayer p2p instanced galactic-scale space sim.