Roadmap leaked??

What? I think you misunderstand mate... The HMD ALWAYS controls the camera as with every other VR implementation going (that is kinda the point of a VR HMD), including Elite Dangerous at this very moment... No one has mentioned anything about the mouse or any other control method controlling the camera in VR outside of rotation...which almost every VR title with locomotion does, be it smooth or stepped rotation.
Sorry, I had a different understanding of
VR players can play a title in VR exactly the same way as a 2D player would, i.e. with a game pad or keyboard / mouse controls - there a number of VR games which work just like that.
Yeah, I've played some. Works fine, the 2D players are non the wiser. I've also played along side 2D players in Minecraft, Vox Machinae and Elite.
In a shooter, do you think VR players are in a disadvantage regarding aiming and general movement?
 
My guess is space legs. The thing is already built in the game, it's just a camera mod. Can work with many existing missions on planets etc as well.

Atmos would be great of course, but a lot of work..
 
Sorry, I had a different understanding of
No worries, many VR games have the same control scheme as 2D games or the 2D games they were ported from. Of course with the exception that the HMD controls the camera, which I thought would be a given ;)

In a shooter, do you think VR players are in a disadvantage regarding aiming and general movement?
I guess you would be, twitch based shooters where players use high DPI mice coupled with high refresh rate screens are always going to out gun someone using motion controls or even a game pad - by how much no idea! Payday 2 is more team based so there is no real disadvantage to be had.

I think the same can be said in Elite for M&K players Vs HOTAS players, while the HOTAS offers greater immersion the mouse is the PVP players choice from what I understand.
 
I've played VR games that have 'normal' movement but when you do move, the edges blur and this reduces possible sickness. It works well. Teleportation sucks, IMO.

Games that do not, such as MineCraft, I find harder to play.

For example, Trickster.

I think the FPS VR comment may be meaning teleport rather than direct movement, as for many it is the only way not to get travel sick.
I'm also chuckling over the scope of this thread - all from an unfounded rumour from a 'dodgy' source :D

But, facts aside, I'd love atmospherics...
 
When I bought my DK2 I played a VR mod of quake 2 with mouse and keyboard, from the beginning till the end ,and it was great.
It is a shame that it hasn't been updated to run on the new VR devices.
 
When I bought my DK2 I played a VR mod of quake 2 with mouse and keyboard, from the beginning till the end ,and it was great.
It is a shame that it hasn't been updated to run on the new VR devices.
I did the same on my Samsung GearVR, except it was the original Quake. And once I didn't get sick from that, I knew I was prolly gonna be okay in general in VR. It was a good example of how different the scale feels in a game once you're in it (tiny seeming rooms are huge, enemies are actually as tall or taller than you, etc).
 
VR players can play a title in VR exactly the same way as a 2D player would, i.e. with a game pad or keyboard / mouse controls - there a number of VR games which work just like that.
As much as I agree with your 'keep expectations low' / 'ED is a 2D-focused game' take, I still can't see purported FPS elements being handled on M/K or controller if they maintain VR support.

Controllers etc work with 3rd person combat just fine in VR, but the early expectations were that ED would remain 1st person for Legs. And given the thrifty-ish nature of the project that seems like a safe bet.

Using classic stick or K/M rotation is nausea city for many VR users in first person. If you alleviate that by standing and rotating you rule out K/M, and are left with stick aiming (or gaze aiming), which are pretty meh formats.

Basic motion controller support comes with the SDKs etc, I believe, should be relatively 'easy' to implement over 2 years, and brings locomotion & gunplay options that solve the issues ('Onward style' motion etc).

If it's a payoff between developing a playable 3rd person view, and sticking some floaty hands in for locomotion aids & shooting, then hands win hands down I reckon ;)

TLDR: I can't think of a VR FPS that uses K/M or controller. Motion controls seem to be the path of least resistance.
 
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I've played VR games that have 'normal' movement but when you do move, the edges blur and this reduces possible sickness. It works well. Teleportation sucks, IMO.

Games that do not, such as MineCraft, I find harder to play.

For example, Trickster.
Another example of movement done-right in VR (imo) is Senua's Sacrifice, but it's 3rd-person, not First. I think over the shoulder would be great in Elite, and less nauseating than FPS-style twitch movements. Maybe allow it to switch back and forth, with 3rd person being the VR default.
 
As much as I agree with your 'keep expectations low' / 'ED is a 2D-focused game' take, I still can't see purported FPS elements being handled on M/K or controller if they maintain VR support.

Controllers etc work with 3rd person combat just fine in VR, but the early expectations were that ED would remain 1st person for Legs. And given the thrifty-ish nature of the project that seems like a safe bet.

Using classic stick or K/M rotation is nausea city for many VR users in first person. If you alleviate that by standing and rotating you rule out K/M, and are left with stick aiming (or gaze aiming), which are pretty meh formats.

Basic motion controller support comes with the SDKs etc, I believe, should be relatively 'easy' to implement over 2 years, and brings locomotion & gunplay options that solve the issues ('Onward style' motion etc).

If it's a payoff between developing a playable 3rd person view, and sticking some floaty hands in for locomotion aids & shooting, then hands win hands down I reckon ;)

TLDR: I can't think of a VR FPS that uses K/M or controller. Motion controls seem to be the path of least resistance.
Plenty of VR games already use game pads / keyboard & mouse control, are in first person and use manual rotation. To name but a few:
  • Skyrim: VR
  • Vanishing of Ethan Carter
  • Subnautica
  • Talos principle
  • Adr1ft
  • Windlands
  • Dreadhalls
  • Alien Isolation
  • Minecraft
  • Narcosis
  • Omega agent
  • The Serious Sam Collection
  • Obducton
There are more - lots more. Lets also not forget that when Oculus released their first consumer grade VR HMD (CV1) it shipped with 1 sensor, a game pad and was marketed as a seated experience. Oculus also have at least 1 HMD currently within their ecosystem which does not support motion controls at all. I should also add that many people even in titles with motion control support will and do use controller based rotation and also that when using a game pad controller based rotation is not requirement, you are free to rotate 360 degrees just as you would be with motion controls...Of course and as you rightly say, keyboard and mouse would be more restictive but at the end of the day it's a player choice if they want to slave themselves to a PC desk via the use of such devices, obviously such players would have a choice to make if they found the experience to be uncomfortable, FDEV would not be forcing them to use that control scheme or the DLC.

We all have our preferences but motion controls are not a requirement for 1st person VR and the lack of support for them doesn't suddenly require a title to be made in 3rd person - that is crazy talk. Snap turning and FOV restriction can be implemented quite easily, at a low cost and help people who cannot handle smooth rotation. If I glance over at the SVR VR implemention in this game I see similar low cost 'comfort' options, which I am aware from many forum posts in the past, do not help eveyone which leaves (and dare i say it) the only other option for those unfortuante few: play the game in 2D while participating in an activity found to be outside the threshold of your personal comfort level.... The barbarians! FDEV think of the children! At the end of the day FDEV already have a line drawn when it comes to VR and that line has the words "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" written above it. Why would space legs change that in any way?

Personal preference: I do agree that if provided a choice between 3rd person or motion control, I'd choose motion control. Then again if I was given a choice between, game pad 1st person, game pad 3rd person or nothing at all, I'd choose game pad 1st person every time.

That said, with all of the other third person cameras now in this game maybe space legs will come with the option to switch to 3rd person for both 2D and VR players... seems quite possible to me. However a forced thrid person mode would be a deal breaker for me due to personal preference but the DLC is an optional purchase and one I'd quite happily ignore the existence of if it only provided the option for third person. I guess others would be forced to make a similar choice if the DLC shipped as a first person game pad driven experience.
 
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Calling it now. Space flight like now will remain a vr experience but legs and co will not have any vr.
And what might we ask brings you to this totally absurd, insane theory? Wild baseless speculation or is it that you often wake up in the morning and start running around shouting "the sky is falling" and then spend your weekends at your local city center wearing a sandwich board with the words "the end is nigh" painted on it? (I'm betting on the later...)
 
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Plenty of VR games already use game pads / keyboard & mouse control, are in first person and use manual rotation. To name but a few:
Sure I agree that many games use, and are fine, with K/M or controller. But I was emphasising titles with a heavy FPS component, which is what the leak suggests. Which reduces your examples down to:

  • Alien Isolation
  • The Serious Sam Collection

The first is a mod, not an official release, kinda infamous for nausea, and is moving towards motion controller locomotion.

The second had to use teleportation in its first release to avoid nausea (which wouldn't be ideal for a multiplayer title), and then moved to motion controller support for subsequent ones.

That's the point. I can't think of any official releases, even of '2D first' games or ports, that have stuck with controller or K/M if they've got a heavy FPS component. It's a dead alley for the gameplay style.


We all have our preferences but motion controls are not a requirement for 1st person VR and the lack of support for them doesn't suddenly require a title to be made in 3rd person - that is crazy talk. Snap turning and FOV restriction can be implemented quite easily, at a low cost and help people who cannot handle smooth rotation.
It's not crazy talk in an FPS setting, especially an online FPS setting. Those nausea aids absolutely exist, but you're forgetting about the parallel issue of aiming & multiplayer. Do you leave the player with an aim-assisted stick-controlled reticule on controller? Head aiming? They're clearly sub-standard solutions. (The nausea aids are also far from compelling gaming formats). 3rd person just solves all the issues in one fell swoop, and preserves a classic gaming format, is what I'm saying. Not that it's the only option etc. (Nor one that I'd want personally ;))


If I glance over at the SVR VR implemention in this game I see similar low cost 'comfort' options, which I am aware from many forum posts in the past, do not help eveyone which leaves (and dare i say it) the only other option for those unfortuante few: play the game in 2D while participating in an activity found to be outside the threshold of your personal comfort level.... The barbarians! FDEV think of the children! At the end of the day FDEV already have a line drawn when it comes to VR and that line has the words "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" written above it. Why would space legs change that in any way?
Yep this is a fair point. I think the difference here for me is that FPS has solutions which help the '60%' of the population that can adapt. Whereas in the SRV there are no comparable solutions. It's a 'like it or lump it' situation for those that get vehicle motion sickness etc.

I just think companies will try and avoid making their customers 'ill' with their core game mechanic if they can ;). You're absolutely right that they could just go with a 'like it or lump it' solution re controllers etc. I just don't see that trend in current VR games, even for ports & budget titles etc. I think there's a 'cheap' solution available.


That said, with all of the other third person cameras now in this game maybe space legs will come with the option to switch to 3rd person for both 2D and VR players... seems quite possible to me. However a forced thrid person mode would be a deal breaker for me due to personal preference but the DLC is an optional purchase and one I'd quite happily ignore the existence of if it only provided the option for third person. I guess others would be forced to make a similar choice if the DLC shipped as a first person game pad driven experience.
Yeah I don't really see them going for a functional 3rd person combat view to be honest. We don't have it for ships, and it's a hell of a lot more work than just having a camera option. And FDev need to save on scope bloat wherever they can ;)
 
And what might we ask brings you to this totally absurd, insane theory?

Wild baseless speculation or is it that you often wake up in the morning and start running around shouting "the sky is falling" and then spend your weekends at your local city center wearing a sandwich board with the words "the end is nigh" painted on it? (I'm betting on the later...)
At the weekends I can usually be found looking after my son.

I presume you're busy then reading the idiots guide to passive aggressive sniping because you dont like other peoples theories?

Not good enough for you, trust me. You can leave right now if you want. :p
Sadly for you son, you dont get to pick and choose when a person stops playing a game.
 
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