Roadmap leaked??

[CylonSurfer]

I think the FPS VR comment may be meaning teleport rather than direct movement, as for many it is the only way not to get travel sick.
I'm also chuckling over the scope of this thread - all from an unfounded rumour from a 'dodgy' source

But, facts aside, I'd love atmospherics...

Many* being a unknown quanity and also not a set in stone quanity as a number of users which initially suffer from such issues develop a resistance to the issue through exposure, although some (unlucky) users do not. FDEV handled the SRV game play the same way as I imagine they'd handle any other element of the VR implementation, it's there, there are a few 'comfort' options are available but ultimatley it is up to the end user if they find the feature comfortable enough for them and there is the option of 2D play to fall back on if they decide certain activities in VR are not suitable for them.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Many* being a unknown quanity and also not a set in stone quanity as a number of users which initially suffer from such issues develop a resistance to the issue through exposure. FDEV handled the SRV game play the same as I imagine they'd handle any other element of the VR implementation, it's there, there are a few 'comfort' options but ultimatley it is up to the end user if they find the feature comfortable enough for them and there is the option of 2D play to fall back on if they decide certain activities in VR are not suitable for them.

I agree, 'many' is an unknown quantity, but is not 'most'
I'm fine with normal locomotion and can free turn without too much disorientation, although I prefer small 'snap' turns, but others are not so fortunate...
I also don't bother with the 'comfort' features in SRV and can drive around on surfaces for hours (indeed have done so, particularly before 3.3 released) and play CQC in VR...

The best 'trainer' for motion disorientation for me was Lone Echo, that worked really well

 

[VR Golgot]

I'm also chuckling over the scope of this thread - all from an unfounded rumour from a 'dodgy' source

Well it's 5 for 5 on its predictions now. So your use of 'unfounded' is fairly unfounded...

But, facts aside, I'd love atmospherics...

Indeed

 

[B1rdy]

Payday 2 for one, a 2D player would have no indication that a VR player was in a match with them. That aside, "different mobility" is not a requirement for VR. VR players can play a title in VR exactly the same way as a 2D player would, i.e. with a game pad or keyboard / mouse controls - there a number of VR games which work just like that. VR players tend to have a preference for more VR centric control methods, as in motion control for hands / weapon play, free look and a higher level of game world interaction in order to get the most out of their VR gaming experience. None of these are set in stone requirements for a VR implementation, they simply "better the experience". Think of them more of a wish list that some VR users tend to confuse with being imperative. I can understand why, as a VR player I'd rather play a title with proper motion control and world interaction support any day of the week, but I'm well aware that Elite is a 2D game with VR support added on and that development is mostly focused on the 2D side of things.

If it were that easy to transform a regular shooter into VR, we would have seen more implementations using keyboard+mouse until now. But my guess is, that having the view controlled by mouse (or some other input device), not the HMD, is very disorienting for a lot of players.

@Regarding Payday 2: Have you any experince playing that alongside regular flat screen peasants? ;-)

 

[CylonSurfer]

But my guess is, that having the view controlled by mouse (or some other input device), not the HMD, is very disorienting for a lot of players.

What? I think you misunderstand mate... The HMD ALWAYS controls the camera as with every other VR implementation going (that is kinda the point of a VR HMD), including Elite Dangerous at this very moment... No one has mentioned anything about the mouse or any other control method controlling the camera in VR outside of rotation...which almost every VR title with locomotion does, be it smooth or stepped rotation.

@Regarding Payday 2: Have you any experince playing that alongside regular flat screen peasants? ;-)

Yeah, I've played some. Works fine, the 2D players are non the wiser. I've also played along side 2D players in Minecraft, Vox Machinae and Elite.

 

[Midian Cabal]

10g maybe survivable in the far future. Agreed about the heat of some planets, your Ship/SRV should take serious damage on those planets and you shouldn't be able to stay too long. That would add some interesting gameplay if you are after something specfifc on that planet.

Even today's untrained humans can handle horizontal acceleration of 10 g for 1 minute. The record is 46.2 g peaked and 25 g for 1.1 second, measured in 1954.

 

[B1rdy]

What? I think you misunderstand mate... The HMD ALWAYS controls the camera as with every other VR implementation going (that is kinda the point of a VR HMD), including Elite Dangerous at this very moment... No one has mentioned anything about the mouse or any other control method controlling the camera in VR outside of rotation...which almost every VR title with locomotion does, be it smooth or stepped rotation.

Sorry, I had a different understanding of

VR players can play a title in VR exactly the same way as a 2D player would, i.e. with a game pad or keyboard / mouse controls - there a number of VR games which work just like that.

Yeah, I've played some. Works fine, the 2D players are non the wiser. I've also played along side 2D players in Minecraft, Vox Machinae and Elite.

In a shooter, do you think VR players are in a disadvantage regarding aiming and general movement?

 

[Shir]

My guess is space legs. The thing is already built in the game, it's just a camera mod. Can work with many existing missions on planets etc as well.

Atmos would be great of course, but a lot of work..

 

[CylonSurfer]

Sorry, I had a different understanding of

No worries, many VR games have the same control scheme as 2D games or the 2D games they were ported from. Of course with the exception that the HMD controls the camera, which I thought would be a given

In a shooter, do you think VR players are in a disadvantage regarding aiming and general movement?

I guess you would be, twitch based shooters where players use high DPI mice coupled with high refresh rate screens are always going to out gun someone using motion controls or even a game pad - by how much no idea! Payday 2 is more team based so there is no real disadvantage to be had.

I think the same can be said in Elite for M&K players Vs HOTAS players, while the HOTAS offers greater immersion the mouse is the PVP players choice from what I understand.

 

[wilderness]

I've played VR games that have 'normal' movement but when you do move, the edges blur and this reduces possible sickness. It works well. Teleportation sucks, IMO.

Games that do not, such as MineCraft, I find harder to play.

For example, Trickster.

Trickster VR: Co-op Dungeon Crawler on Steam

A procedurally generated fantasy adventure, starring floating islands, epic loot and a horde of orcs! Try your skills against orcish combat expertise, ancient magic and ragtag airships!

store.steampowered.com

I think the FPS VR comment may be meaning teleport rather than direct movement, as for many it is the only way not to get travel sick.
I'm also chuckling over the scope of this thread - all from an unfounded rumour from a 'dodgy' source

But, facts aside, I'd love atmospherics...

 

[govny]

When I bought my DK2 I played a VR mod of quake 2 with mouse and keyboard, from the beginning till the end ,and it was great.
It is a shame that it hasn't been updated to run on the new VR devices.

 

[DMC831]

When I bought my DK2 I played a VR mod of quake 2 with mouse and keyboard, from the beginning till the end ,and it was great.
It is a shame that it hasn't been updated to run on the new VR devices.

I did the same on my Samsung GearVR, except it was the original Quake. And once I didn't get sick from that, I knew I was prolly gonna be okay in general in VR. It was a good example of how different the scale feels in a game once you're in it (tiny seeming rooms are huge, enemies are actually as tall or taller than you, etc).

 

[VR Golgot]

VR players can play a title in VR exactly the same way as a 2D player would, i.e. with a game pad or keyboard / mouse controls - there a number of VR games which work just like that.

As much as I agree with your 'keep expectations low' / 'ED is a 2D-focused game' take, I still can't see purported FPS elements being handled on M/K or controller if they maintain VR support.

Controllers etc work with 3rd person combat just fine in VR, but the early expectations were that ED would remain 1st person for Legs. And given the thrifty-ish nature of the project that seems like a safe bet.

Using classic stick or K/M rotation is nausea city for many VR users in first person. If you alleviate that by standing and rotating you rule out K/M, and are left with stick aiming (or gaze aiming), which are pretty meh formats.

Basic motion controller support comes with the SDKs etc, I believe, should be relatively 'easy' to implement over 2 years, and brings locomotion & gunplay options that solve the issues ('Onward style' motion etc).

If it's a payoff between developing a playable 3rd person view, and sticking some floaty hands in for locomotion aids & shooting, then hands win hands down I reckon

TLDR: I can't think of a VR FPS that uses K/M or controller. Motion controls seem to be the path of least resistance.

 

[CmdrKull]

I've played VR games that have 'normal' movement but when you do move, the edges blur and this reduces possible sickness. It works well. Teleportation sucks, IMO.

Games that do not, such as MineCraft, I find harder to play.

For example, Trickster.

Trickster VR: Co-op Dungeon Crawler on Steam

A procedurally generated fantasy adventure, starring floating islands, epic loot and a horde of orcs! Try your skills against orcish combat expertise, ancient magic and ragtag airships!

store.steampowered.com

Another example of movement done-right in VR (imo) is Senua's Sacrifice, but it's 3rd-person, not First. I think over the shoulder would be great in Elite, and less nauseating than FPS-style twitch movements. Maybe allow it to switch back and forth, with 3rd person being the VR default.

 

[VR Golgot]

Calling it now. Space flight like now will remain a vr experience but legs and co will not have any vr.

Can I have your things if you're wrong?

 

[StuartGT]

Calling it now. Space flight like now will remain a vr experience but legs and co will not have any vr.

Does SRV driving count as "space flight" or "legs and co" in this scenario?

 

[VR Golgot]

Besides I dont own VR so lack it isnt going to affect me at all.

Only via the horrible clutchings of envy young man! I'll take that as the payoff if your prediction is off

 

[CylonSurfer]

As much as I agree with your 'keep expectations low' / 'ED is a 2D-focused game' take, I still can't see purported FPS elements being handled on M/K or controller if they maintain VR support.

Controllers etc work with 3rd person combat just fine in VR, but the early expectations were that ED would remain 1st person for Legs. And given the thrifty-ish nature of the project that seems like a safe bet.

Using classic stick or K/M rotation is nausea city for many VR users in first person. If you alleviate that by standing and rotating you rule out K/M, and are left with stick aiming (or gaze aiming), which are pretty meh formats.

Basic motion controller support comes with the SDKs etc, I believe, should be relatively 'easy' to implement over 2 years, and brings locomotion & gunplay options that solve the issues ('Onward style' motion etc).

If it's a payoff between developing a playable 3rd person view, and sticking some floaty hands in for locomotion aids & shooting, then hands win hands down I reckon

TLDR: I can't think of a VR FPS that uses K/M or controller. Motion controls seem to be the path of least resistance.

Plenty of VR games already use game pads / keyboard & mouse control, are in first person and use manual rotation. To name but a few:

• Skyrim: VR
• Vanishing of Ethan Carter
• Subnautica
• Talos principle
• Adr1ft
• Windlands
• Dreadhalls
• Alien Isolation
• Minecraft
• Narcosis
• Omega agent
• The Serious Sam Collection
• Obducton

There are more - lots more. Lets also not forget that when Oculus released their first consumer grade VR HMD (CV1) it shipped with 1 sensor, a game pad and was marketed as a seated experience. Oculus also have at least 1 HMD currently within their ecosystem which does not support motion controls at all. I should also add that many people even in titles with motion control support will and do use controller based rotation and also that when using a game pad controller based rotation is not requirement, you are free to rotate 360 degrees just as you would be with motion controls...Of course and as you rightly say, keyboard and mouse would be more restictive but at the end of the day it's a player choice if they want to slave themselves to a PC desk via the use of such devices, obviously such players would have a choice to make if they found the experience to be uncomfortable, FDEV would not be forcing them to use that control scheme or the DLC.

We all have our preferences but motion controls are not a requirement for 1st person VR and the lack of support for them doesn't suddenly require a title to be made in 3rd person - that is crazy talk. Snap turning and FOV restriction can be implemented quite easily, at a low cost and help people who cannot handle smooth rotation. If I glance over at the SVR VR implemention in this game I see similar low cost 'comfort' options, which I am aware from many forum posts in the past, do not help eveyone which leaves (and dare i say it) the only other option for those unfortuante few: play the game in 2D while participating in an activity found to be outside the threshold of your personal comfort level.... The barbarians! FDEV think of the children! At the end of the day FDEV already have a line drawn when it comes to VR and that line has the words "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" written above it. Why would space legs change that in any way?

Personal preference: I do agree that if provided a choice between 3rd person or motion control, I'd choose motion control. Then again if I was given a choice between, game pad 1st person, game pad 3rd person or nothing at all, I'd choose game pad 1st person every time.

That said, with all of the other third person cameras now in this game maybe space legs will come with the option to switch to 3rd person for both 2D and VR players... seems quite possible to me. However a forced thrid person mode would be a deal breaker for me due to personal preference but the DLC is an optional purchase and one I'd quite happily ignore the existence of if it only provided the option for third person. I guess others would be forced to make a similar choice if the DLC shipped as a first person game pad driven experience.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Calling it now. Space flight like now will remain a vr experience but legs and co will not have any vr.

And what might we ask brings you to this totally absurd, insane theory? Wild baseless speculation or is it that you often wake up in the morning and start running around shouting "the sky is falling" and then spend your weekends at your local city center wearing a sandwich board with the words "the end is nigh" painted on it? (I'm betting on the later...)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Even today's untrained humans can handle horizontal acceleration of 10 g for 1 minute. The record is 46.2 g peaked and 25 g for 1.1 second, measured in 1954.

You wouldn't want to stay long on the planet though and you certainly wouldn't want to live there.