Why. Can't think of any reason to restrict VR to the ship only.
Sure I agree that many games use, and are fine, with K/M or controller. But I was emphasising titles with a heavy FPS component, which is what the leak suggests. Which reduces your examples down to:
- Alien Isolation
- The Serious Sam Collection
The first is a mod, not an official release, kinda infamous for nausea, and is moving towards motion controller locomotion.
The second had to use teleportation in its first release to avoid nausea (which wouldn't be ideal for a multiplayer title), and then moved to motion controller support for subsequent ones.
That's the point. I can't think of any official releases, even of '2D first' games or ports, that have stuck with controller or K/M if they've got a heavy FPS component. It's a dead alley for the gameplay style.
It's not crazy talk in an FPS setting, especially an online FPS setting. Those nausea aids absolutely exist, but you're forgetting about the parallel issue of aiming & multiplayer. Do you leave the player with an aim-assisted stick-controlled reticule on controller? Head aiming? They're clearly sub-standard solutions. (The nausea aids are also far from compelling gaming formats). 3rd person just solves all the issues in one fell swoop, and preserves a classic gaming format, is what I'm saying. Not that it's the only option etc. (Nor one that I'd want personally
)Yep this is a fair point. I think the difference here for me is that FPS has solutions which help the '60%' of the population that can adapt. Whereas in the SRV there are no comparable solutions. It's a 'like it or lump it' situation for those that get vehicle motion sickness etc.
I just think companies will try and avoid making their customers 'ill' with their core game mechanic if they can
. You're absolutely right that they could just go with a 'like it or lump it' solution re controllers etc. I just don't see that trend in current VR games, even for ports & budget titles etc. I think there's a 'cheap' solution available.Yeah I don't really see them going for a functional 3rd person combat view to be honest. We don't have it for ships, and it's a hell of a lot more work than just having a camera option. And FDev need to save on scope bloat wherever they can
You were clearly on a wind up. Don't be surprised if people unwind back at you ¯\(ツ)/¯
See. You're still on a wind up
Don't get too jealous now sweetie xx
EDIT: If it is indeed what you think, perhaps provide some underpinning to your theory that people can actually address. Rather than opting for the drive-by one-liner.
Theories? Go on lets hear it... I'm yet to see any theory from you, just a statement with nothing to back it up.
See. You're still on a wind up
Don't get too jealous now sweetie xx
EDIT: If it is indeed what you think, perhaps provide some underpinning to your theory that people can actually address. Rather than opting for the drive-by one-liner.
LOL - he doesn't have one, just a baseless statement with nothing to actually support it, you have to admire the intellect behind such posts. Then commend the further drivel in subsequent posts. Clearly a fan of dogs and pancakes but of VR
Now that's what I call a theory!
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Of people having fun in VR. The people you're transparently trying to goad with your drive-by stuff.
Like I say in the edit though, if you've got a rationale, lay it out. That'd be all cool. And preferable to silly sniping exchanges
Ok but we've got one going with the VR FPS discussion. Let's get back on topic
@Golgot - I disagree with your culling of CylonSurfer’s list down to those two titles - saying only those have a “heavy FPS component” seems to be “no true Scotsman” territory to me.
On the list, I’ve tried A:I, Subnautica and Adr1ft using only a controller with no issues, the latter two being ‘official’ VR ports of 2d games.
I think an interesting thing to look at will be the upcoming NMS VR - currently you can easily switch between first- and third-person, so will that be retained in the Beyond release? I’ve seen teleport locomotion mooted as well as other methods, along with motion controllers. Will we be able to use standard controllers as well as waving our arms around?
On the list, I’ve tried A:I, Subnautica and Adr1ft using only a controller with no issues, the latter two being ‘official’ VR ports of 2d games.
I think an interesting thing to look at will be the upcoming NMS VR - currently you can easily switch between first- and third-person, so will that be retained in the Beyond release? I’ve seen teleport locomotion mooted as well as other methods, along with motion controllers. Will we be able to use standard controllers as well as waving our arms around?
Oh come on now. Do Subnautica or Adr1ft have gunplay as a primary gameplay loop?
'First Person Shooter' is a pretty clearly defined game type. And I think I've stood up why the distinction is important.
The leak suggests shooter gameplay will be a significant component (and FDev's Legs discussion have featured combat applications heavily).
It's not unreasonable to ask: 'How will VR gunplay work?' if there's an apparent weighting towards it.
EDIT: Absolutely agree on NMS as a testcase for ways ED could go about it. Especially with their uptick in multiplayer functionality along the way.
So you are disregarding those games because they don’t have guns? So quickly moving your first-person point of view is only valid if there’s a gun in your eyesight?
In that case, I once tried DoomVR on the PlayStation, which was a seated experience with controller. There was a gun in each hand and they were locked to your viewpoint, so headlook aiming if you will. Turning around was view flick-turning on a thumbstick. Worked perfectly fine, in my view.
Indeed, Skyrim:VR has a significant combat element, including bow and cross bow play. It also removed third person entirely even when played with a controller... I do however agree with some of what Galgot says, I just don't honestly believe any of it would push FDEV to any other place than they already are when it comes to the VR support in this title. I'd like to be proven wrong by them but with their history I'm not sure we will and it certainly doesn't make legs in VR unviable in any way even if that is undesirable for some.
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you seem to take what you like and disregard all the rest.
As I have already said I played the entire Quake 2 in VR with mouse and keyboard and it was great. I think Quake 2 can be labeled as a pure FPS, or not?
I think the best part was that you were not headlooked. You can move the view with you head and move your gun using mouse. It was a great solution. If the game is made the right way it can be easilly played in VR like in 2D.
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I didn’t mention SkyrimVR (my second most played VR game) because I’ve only ever used Touch controllers with it, but I can imagine using a controller would be similar to using the simplified archery option.
Personally I’m not that worried about future VR implementation, as long as there are headlook options in the game then I think there will always be that basic level of VR coverage.
No I'm not disregarding them as points of reference more broadly. I'm just saying that any defecit in their control scheme when it comes to FPS needs to be considered, given that that mode seems likely to feature in a Legs DLC.
IE: Just saying 'Subnautica did it, no problems' re controller input starts to founder as an argument when you ponder how its controller scheme would work for multiplayer FPS applications.
I do get both your and Cylon's arguments that non-motion-controller solutions can be arrived at. I'm just arguing that they're sub-optimal in a way that would be important to FDev (nausea for significant bands of the gaming community / archaic gameplay within the VR ecosystem, which are being mainly eschewed by other developers).
DoomVR used a teleport function. As I pointed out that would be unlikely to be satisfactory in a 'cross platform' multiplayer PvP environment. (IE for '2D' players having your opponent teleporting about would likely be an unsatisfactory parallel. It's not proved hugely popular in the VR ecosystem generally, with the likes of RecRoom moving away from it for their PvP maps etc, and only multiplayer games which majored on teleport as a feature getting much traction out of it, and even they didn't fare particularly well, IE: Gunheart).
Sorry I didn't mean to gloss over it. As far as I'm aware the Quake 2 mod had a lot of issues with nausea though too, and as such their control scheme may not be replicated by a pro release.
I'm not very well versed in it though, and may well be wrong there. I know that the mod itself did add motion control support as time went by though.
You’ll have to help me here, my pondering can’t differentiate between control schemes for solo or multiplayer FPS?
Edit: the only controls difference I have in VR games using controllers is that the right thumb stick changes from ‘look up/down/left/right’ to ‘flickturn left/right’ as the look functions become mapped to the HMD.
True, a lot of gamers suffer from VR nausea when they try it, but I’d posit that a lot of VR gamers don’t. Bit of a Darwinian system, really. I think if the current crop of puke-solutions don’t work for a player, then they’re a bit stuffed with VR, unfortunately.
When I played DoomVFR on the PS it was smooth locomotion, the only teleporting was for tele-frag finishing moves.
Further edit: again, I’m interested in seeing what the varied locomotion options look like in the next NMS update - will the players using teleport be showing the sort of movement usually displayed by wet-haired Japanese girls who crawl out of televisions? Or will they look like they’ve got really crappy internet?
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Leo's 'theory' is inane. If FD is going to 'cut corners' they'll go for a crappy vr experience, not disable it.
Anyway, subnautica is great in vr with a gamepad and it has both eva 'swimming' and walking (in your homebase). NMS is adding be to their space legs. FD not spending loads of time on vr might be a reality, but any expectations of them removing it is lol.
And leo is just jelly, nananananaaaana!
Anyway, subnautica is great in vr with a gamepad and it has both eva 'swimming' and walking (in your homebase). NMS is adding be to their space legs. FD not spending loads of time on vr might be a reality, but any expectations of them removing it is lol.
And leo is just jelly, nananananaaaana!
You do understand that every time FDEV add a feature to Elite it will work in VR outside of perhaps a few UI or shader tweaks due to how VR is intergrated into the engine, if FDEV want to futher improve up on any one element of the VR implementation, such as adding motion control support etc is really what the question is here.
It seems by your posts that you have a negative view on VR, which is fine of course, some things are not for everyone and all that. I do not understand the "paper weight" / "sunken costs" remarks though. I have a number of VR headsets, I do not view any of them as a paperweight or regret any costs associated with them. I'm not starved for content either, I play VR very regularly and really do not touch 2D games any more and have no need to. VRs future seems bright from where I sit, more content being announced all the time and advancements in HMD technology is moving along at a faster pace than I personally expected.
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I have read, on this forum, statements that a VR headset was bought solely to play ED, which seems totally odd - but folk are what they are - but my VR library contains many more titles than ED and I'll certainly be playing other games, in VR, when the attraction of this game has faltered. No paperweight, sorry
That said, of course, should next year's expansion be taking us down the road of FPS than I'll be skipping that one, thanks, that would be immensely boring for me.
That said, of course, should next year's expansion be taking us down the road of FPS than I'll be skipping that one, thanks, that would be immensely boring for me.
For cross-play with 2D players, stuff like:
- Teleport is pretty much out. Having a tranche of the populace zipping instantaneously between cover would be ludicrously OP, and not something 2D players would accept as the norm for themselves.
- For PC servers, does stick aiming dis-advantage VR players excessively in PvP vs K/M.
I'd expect those to be the key design considerations for a basic FPS implementation.
(It's kinda theoretical though, because no one's done a 'cross-play' VR/2D PvP format successfully that I know of. I seem to recall at least one trying, and bombing horribly though).
This is something devs take seriously, because they want as much uptake as they can. And the numbers for nausea are significant. Back in CV1 days Oculus had it as:
Game design improvements seem to have improved the odds there, probably in that 60% block in particular. This reddit poll, although doubtless swayed by a more 'hardcore' sample, suggests teleport & 'onward style' techniques have opened the first person gaming up to more players.
Guys in the 20% often don't get this issue, but it's one dev houses definitely consider. Current game output definitely suggests some norms are settling into place in terms of accessible design.
Ugg, head-look for direction of travel? Blerg, I've always found that really 'anti-VR', removing freedom of headlook etc. But it's definitely functional sure. And partially a preference thing.
Ah ok cool, my bad.
I think the nausea attached to smooth locomotion may explain why it didn't storm it on the sales front though maybe (compared to their Skyrim + F4 output). Or could at least have played a role.
It'd be interesting to see a round up of the locomotion options available over time in releases. My impression is that alternate approaches to smooth turning have been deployed with increasing frequency (with 'Onward style' motion cropping up everywhere, under different names, for FPS style gameplay).
Yeah, will they go teleport (will they go PvP). Will it look ludicrous. Gonna be interesting
EDIT: Ah ok, on locomotion, there's teleport, and some form of smooth loco.
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Yeah, will they go teleport (will they go PvP). Will it look ludicrous. Gonna be interesting
I believe Arizona Sunshine allows for both movements types in coop mode, I've not played in coop but from what I have read it is pretty seemless, i.e the teleporting player doesn't look odd from the stick locomotion players perspective.
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