PvP Rumination on PvP: What REALLY is the difference between a player and an NPC?

There is no one answer, only opinion. The victim doesn't have a choice who they are attacked by, the attacker does so the question posed in the OP only tells me the OP lacks empathy for the victim, or pretends to.

There is no victim.

It's a video game.

It's make believe.
 
So we're back to the only real reason being given to why PvP is bad and PvNPC is good is because in PvP you might lose and PvNPC you're going to win pretty much 100% of the time.
The only real reason given is difficulty. People want easy wins every single time and don't ever want any sort of challenge to overcome.

That's honestly extremely sad

I didnt say that. Dont put words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out the fallacy of your implying that npcs are on a par with humans in combat capability.
 
So the only complaint is the threat of losing? People only complain about PvP because they're angry that it's an actual challenge that they can't beat 100% of the time?

(And NPCs can have engineering too unless frontier recently took them out for some reason, and I'm sorry, but the majority of the playerbase are crap combat pilots)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only engineered NPC imho are the pirate USS and mission targets. The rest is max. A rated.

And sorry, you only lose in PvE if you badly screw up, against another CMDR you can fly the meta and its' still possible to get your rearside handed to you.
Fly a g5 prismatic FdL or a g5 Corvette in PvE and the game becomes a joke difficulty wise. That's because engineering unbalances the game versus NPCs.

No issues with getting interdicted by humans or NPC’s (except the fact that npc’s are guaranteed mindless gankers.

I guess the only difference is npc’s don’t sound like 5yr olds, also don’t stream easy kills whilst flying a ship that says ‘looool’ on the dashboard.

I’d say most people don’t have issues with pirates or power play PvP’ers. It’s just the idiots that give pvp’ers a bad name. Those cmdrs know who they are, and take pleasure out of being anti social...

@Bigmac, have met plenty of PvP’ers that are terrible pilots, Elite Eagles are more of a challenge.
Use gimbals - Eagle problem solved :p

But to be a bit more serious, People do even complain about totally legit PvP.
Look at the recent HALT/AX threads.
Roleplay? check
Combat versus combat vessel (no unshielded Trader ganking)? check
Still complain threads? check

Because people complain that they can't win the engagement.
Their weapons make no damage against a PvP build, they can disengage without trouble, and still people complain.
Cause they can't win.

disclaimer: just my opinion and educated armchair psychology.
 
I didnt say that. Dont put words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out the fallacy of your implying that npcs are on a par with humans in combat capability.

If difficulty had nothing to do with it then why even bring up combat ability in any capacity?

I'm not putting words in your mouth, i'm taking what you said and applying to to the discussion you posted to.
 
I tried making this point awhile ago in another thread, and yeah that's what it boils down to. There's a pettiness factor of "waahhh a person is picking on me" and there's the "I can only win against NPCs but it's not my fault, protect me father braben!" Its true, if you behave like an NPC and say "I'm gonna boil you up", interdict someone, do your damndest to boil them up, you are labeled a lowlife greifer for doing something commonplace within the context of the games design.
 
I think the reaction is connected to the context.

NPCs don't have a choice in attacking you; in that regard, they're part of the environment. Players, on the other hand, make a conscious decision to attack you. If you're trying to do something else, this can be irritating.

The vast majority of NPC interdictions are foreshadowed in chat, and are predictable anyway because they are attached to missions. In other words, they make some semblance of sense within the context of the game. Conversely, many interdictions by players make little-to-no sense within the context of the rest of the game: The sole reason for the interdiction is the hollow square.

If I were to go to a CG, for example, I'd expect to be stalked and interdicted. It might not make much sense (CGs generally don't anyway, IMO, but that's a different conversation), but there is a sufficiently suitable context there for it to make some sense. In addition, if I see certain CMDRs who have made it a habit to undermine the faction I support, I will interdict them and kill them if I can and won't be in the slightest bit put out should they interdict or otherwise attack me. There's sufficient context for the interaction to make sense.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only engineered NPC imho are the pirate USS and mission targets. The rest is max. A rated.

And sorry, you only lose in PvE if you badly screw up, against another CMDR you can fly the meta and its' still possible to get your rearside handed to you.
Fly a g5 prismatic FdL or a g5 Corvette in PvE and the game becomes a joke difficulty wise. That's because engineering unbalances the game versus NPCs.

Use gimbals - Eagle problem solved :p

But to be a bit more serious, People do even complain about totally legit PvP.
Look at the recent HALT/AX threads.
Roleplay? check
Combat versus combat vessel (no unshielded Trader ganking)? check
Still complain threads? check

Because people complain that they can't win the engagement.
Their weapons make no damage against a PvP build, they can disengage without trouble, and still people complain.
Cause they can't win.

disclaimer: just my opinion and educated armchair psychology.

So again.

It comes back to people just complaining that they aren't being spoonfed wins 24/7 which...ironically...is the exact criticism people send at "griefers" who attack traders.
 
I think the reaction is connected to the context.

NPCs don't have a choice in attacking you; in that regard, they're part of the environment. Players, on the other hand, make a conscious decision to attack you. If you're trying to do something else, this can be irritating.

The vast majority of NPC interdictions are foreshadowed in chat, and are predictable anyway because they are attached to missions. In other words, they make some semblance of sense within the context of the game. Conversely, many interdictions by players make little-to-no sense within the context of the rest of the game: The sole reason for the interdiction is the hollow square.

If I were to go to a CG, for example, I'd expect to be stalked and interdicted. It might not make much sense (CGs generally don't anyway, IMO, but that's a different conversation), but there is a sufficiently suitable context there for it to make some sense. In addition, if I see certain CMDRs who have made it a habit to undermine the faction I support, I will interdict them and kill them if I can and won't be in the slightest bit put out should they interdict or otherwise attack me. There's sufficient context for the interaction to make sense.

Choice doesn't matter, it's a hostile entity controlling a virtual pretend spaceship trying to blow up your pretend space ship. They are functionally identical within the context of the game.

The only way for this reasoning to hold up is if the person is applying real life to the game, which is just stupid because it's a VIDEO GAME. It's not real. There's no victim. There's no actual crime. It's a computer program behaving in a way it was designed to. So, it still doesn't hold up in that regard.
 
So why DO You act like they're different?

because an NPC isn't ever going to target me purely to incite an emotional response..

I could also turn another question around..

I never incited an emotional response from an NPC by combat logging.. Human players jump up and down over another PLAYER going 'puff', and not complain when an NPC vanishes...
 
If difficulty had nothing to do with it then why even bring up combat ability in any capacity?

I'm not putting words in your mouth, i'm taking what you said and applying to to the discussion you posted to.

I didnt initiate the discussion of combat ability you did in this paragraph in your first post:
A player and an NPC, when in the context of the game, are functionally indistinguishable. When in a combat scenario, they are both hostile entities attempting to kill you. Sure, a player might be more skilled, but there are many NPCs in this game that are cranked up to 11 and can kill you better than the majority of players could.

Honestly, these kinds of arguments are one of the reasons im sometimes glad i dont have kids. Have fun. I dont have the patience to deal with this kind of snipy argumentative mentality. My last post in this thread.
 
because an NPC isn't ever going to target me purely to incite an emotional response..

I could also turn another question around..

I never incited an emotional response from an NPC by combat logging.. Human players jump up and down over another PLAYER going 'puff', and not complain when an NPC vanishes...

So don't give an emotional response.

Also why are you exploiting the game to avoid death?

Once again, we're back to the only reasoning for this being that people want easy wins spoon-fed to them with no sense of challenge whatsoever, which completely defeats the point of a game with any sort of combat or progression system.
 
So we're back to the only real reason being given to why PvP is bad and PvNPC is good is because in PvP you might lose and PvNPC you're going to win pretty much 100% of the time.

The only real reason given is difficulty. People want easy wins every single time and don't ever want any sort of challenge to overcome.

That's honestly extremely sad.
So again.

It comes back to people just complaining that they aren't being spoonfed wins 24/7 which...ironically...is the exact criticism people send at "griefers" who attack traders.

Yes, in my opinion this is correct. I want to spend some time relaxing in a game (in my free time).
Sometimes I am in the mood to insta-win every encounter.
Then I click on "solo/PG"
Another time, I like some challenge. Then I click "open"

Your choice of words sounds as if that was bad, but I can assure you it isn't.
A game is recreation from the real world.

It's not in your right to make a judgement about my playstyle...

The same goes in both directions, a PvE'ler shouldn't criticise a PvP'ler for his playstyle either,
he should just click another mode than open.
 
I didnt initiate the discussion of combat ability you did in this paragraph in your first post:


Honestly, these kinds of arguments are one of the reasons im sometimes glad i dont have kids. Have fun. I dont have the patience to deal with this kind of snipy argumentative mentality. My last post in this thread.

And we have our first "i'm going to insult you then get the last word before i rage quit the thread instead of having a civil discussion".

Nice.
 
NPC's don't give a "o7" or "gg" after a fight and have a convo with you about what worked and what didn't.

(Not all players will either, but I've never seen an NPC do this.)
 
Doesn't matter what the reason is. It's an entity controlling a pretend spaceship on a screen trying to blow up your pretend spaceship. They are functionally indistinguishable.
I agree that they're the same.

Well, aside from ship outfitting, possible engineering, ability to reverski or boost to close distances, etc.

They also need you to be wanted, do something to either them or another ship (i.e. shoot or pirate them), have cargo of some type that they want...

So basically anything that doesn't involve what you look like on their sensors in order for them to be hostile, which is quite often the only requirement for another player.

So yeah, functionally indistinguishable.
 
So don't give an emotional response.

Also why are you exploiting the game to avoid death?

Once again, we're back to the only reasoning for this being that people want easy wins spoon-fed to them with no sense of challenge whatsoever, which completely defeats the point of a game with any sort of combat or progression system.

When I'm trading, easy wins are irrelevant. Yet the fact that there's no honor or point in destroying a defenseless trader seems a moot point.
 
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