Same old song about cheaters
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I'll ask you for the third time, which members of SDC are on the cheating forum complaining that they have been banned by Fdev please? Let's assume you just didn't see the previous two times, surely you can't miss this one?
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Can you please be specific? Names, the actual cheats used (memory hacks/trainers etc) and perhaps even some evidence which amounts to more than hearsay? You can PM me if you prefer, or if "naming and shaming" is against forum rules.
I have been politely asking Rinzler about this issue but get only silence. Perhaps he has me on 'ignore'? Or possibly it is just because the evidence shows that SDC are full of [redacted], and just spout ludicrous, pompous nonsense. We may never know, but it isn't hard to form a reasonable conclusion.
Here's the entire discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteCombatLoggers/comments/4f5v9j/cmdr_sundae_combat_logger/
They do? They don't? They what?
And yea, instead of staying focused and on topic, these discussions always end in endless justifying, bickering, mud flinging.
I see one reason for having repercussions for pulling-the-plug-logging while in combat: the integrity of the game in the multi player environment.
That's really all.
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Sounds like the Sundae character used menu logging.
Yes, he did indeed, and actually streamed it live. Funnily enough he has since taken down the video.
The "he was doing it to raise awareness" gambit is, I'm afraid, utterly pathetic and is not borne out by what the video showed. He menu logged, then logged back in but not in open, and said to his audience, "Phew, they aren't in my instance". Well, durr, no surprises there then. Unfortunately for the hapless Sundae, many people noticed him not logging back into Open. He got roasted and the video disappeared.
Agreed: which is why I assert than any penalties for such logging (and by extension disconnects) should be restricted to open.
Who cares if people are combat logging in Solo; and private should be left to the owner of the private group to decide.
Even with that limit: there are considerable issues with attempting to implement that. For one thing: the peer-to-peer nature (as I've read is the case on these forums) of the connection means it's difficult to establish the true cause of the disconnect.
But isn't that the same as saying that in Solo or Private Group we should all have 100% insurance, i.e., no rebuy costs?
Why should those who don't fly with their network cable clamped between their teeth lose more than those that do?
Fun fact, it's not me who calls the 15 second menu log "combat logging" or thinks it's an issue.
But it's me who did not manage to convice Mr. Fang (who was usually quite reasonable) that putting "grief-loggers" on some KoS list ist the most counterproductive thing you can do.
Just raise the issue as an issue (where the issue is), put them on ignore and be done with it.
Because for them the integrity of the game is more important than a few lost pixelcredits.
I don't understand how anyone could do endless Robigo or Sothis runs. I've never been to the first and stopped the 2nd long before it was nerfed, because it got boring. ^^
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Normally I wouldnt call it cheating but I m going to agree with the OPs opinion because ED already offers you ingame mechanics to stay safe from other players meaning that whiever opts to play multi agrees to the risks involved and probably intends to deal out some harassment himself. Logging in that case is simply a cheesy way to avoid the consequences YOU chose and should be punished. At least morally if not by code.
I mean it comes down to information IMO. EVE does a formidable job at this. When I first picked it up I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. I understood the consequences and also that nobody else would be in my corner if I ever lost my ship due to ganking, griefing or a scam. Not only did this ADD a form of tension to my game sessions and forced me to stay on my toes. It also helped me a lot to handle my frustration when the day finally came and I lost my ship because of another player who simply wanted to waste my time.
ED offers a form of a PvE/PvP slider for this scenario so alls good in my book. I can understand the occasional log when people realize they are in multi when they want to play solo or maybe even the very rare DC (even tho at this EXACT moment....hmmm) but I m sure its rather easy to check these things and act accordingly.
I mean it comes down to information IMO. EVE does a formidable job at this. When I first picked it up I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. I understood the consequences and also that nobody else would be in my corner if I ever lost my ship due to ganking, griefing or a scam. Not only did this ADD a form of tension to my game sessions and forced me to stay on my toes. It also helped me a lot to handle my frustration when the day finally came and I lost my ship because of another player who simply wanted to waste my time.
ED offers a form of a PvE/PvP slider for this scenario so alls good in my book. I can understand the occasional log when people realize they are in multi when they want to play solo or maybe even the very rare DC (even tho at this EXACT moment....hmmm) but I m sure its rather easy to check these things and act accordingly.
No. It's to say that people shouldn't be punished for an action without a clear reason to do so.
The argument against combat logging is entirely related to PvP; which is a non-issue in solo.
Are you saying people should, in your opinion, have zero rebuy (and also retain their weeks worth of hard won engineering mats)? Because that's a different topic than CL.
I think you seem to be saying "we should punish people for avoiding penalties by giving them penalties"; which begs the question "why? How does it affect you? And since it doesn't affect you, why do you care?"
It's rather like high-waking. People who chose not to do it are more likely to lose money and cargo than people who do. Are you saying we should punish people for high waking? Why?
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What about solo players?
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![BigBANGtheory [VR]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/71/71385.jpg?1644873788){kind=avatar}
Everyone does it to raise awareness of the issue [squeeeee]
Well this has turned into a bit of a witch hunt, hasn't it?.
I see no benefit to persecuting individuals. I do see a benefit to taking on board the concept that it's near impossible to police a loose collective of players & expect them to 100% uphold to self-imposed rules.
Rather than getting caught up in rigid obeyance to rules (and mocking the hypocrisy of it all), why not just relax a bit & be a little more tolerant of the failings of others? Understand that you are not perfect yourself, and accept that others are not perfect either.
Last night I came back from an exploratory jaunt & did a short round of Engineering upgrades. One of the final activities of the session was to pop into Shinrarta Dezhra for a few tweaks from Lori Jameson. Before jumping into a known gankers' hotspot, I considered whether the risk was worth the benefit of going there in open. It wasn't, but I wanted the upgrades & had the materials on me, so I simply went there in Solo. On another day I might have gone in Open, on most days I simply avoid going there at all because I accept that for me, the risk simply isn't worth it sometimes.
Combat Logging never presented itself as an option, nor did getting frustrated that other (potential) players were stopping me from doing what I wanted to do, or playing in a way I didn't like.
I see no benefit to persecuting individuals. I do see a benefit to taking on board the concept that it's near impossible to police a loose collective of players & expect them to 100% uphold to self-imposed rules.
Rather than getting caught up in rigid obeyance to rules (and mocking the hypocrisy of it all), why not just relax a bit & be a little more tolerant of the failings of others? Understand that you are not perfect yourself, and accept that others are not perfect either.
Last night I came back from an exploratory jaunt & did a short round of Engineering upgrades. One of the final activities of the session was to pop into Shinrarta Dezhra for a few tweaks from Lori Jameson. Before jumping into a known gankers' hotspot, I considered whether the risk was worth the benefit of going there in open. It wasn't, but I wanted the upgrades & had the materials on me, so I simply went there in Solo. On another day I might have gone in Open, on most days I simply avoid going there at all because I accept that for me, the risk simply isn't worth it sometimes.
Combat Logging never presented itself as an option, nor did getting frustrated that other (potential) players were stopping me from doing what I wanted to do, or playing in a way I didn't like.
The last CG in Maia with the conflict zones I was playing in open. I would get into heavy combat and the server kept locking up on me. To those it probably looked like Combat Logging (Cause I got into some PVP scuffles doing the CG). The game would just stop. I would hear all the sounds but every time it happened I had to hard close the game from the task manager.
The only potential downside is playing in a way that you don't particularly want to play - yet somehow feel pressured or honour-bound somehow to play in a mode purely for the benefit of others[\i]. There is no mode superiority. The only benefit to playing in one mode over another is that you can choose which one you want to play in.
There is no magical badge of honour to be won from playing exclusively in Open, unless you make one for yourself. The only people complaining about any perceived lack of people in Open are largely the ones who would rather see no choice at all.
There is no magical badge of honour to be won from playing exclusively in Open, unless you make one for yourself. The only people complaining about any perceived lack of people in Open are largely the ones who would rather see no choice at all.
So I watched that video - and the first thing that came to mind is "Why is that fellow just sitting there? He could have been gone already."
Followed by "He dropped cargo, but where were the mines?"
I will say, "nicely handled" on the part of the aggressors though, they conducted themselves quite appropriately.
That aside, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Nor have I really gotten an answer to my question, which I will restate:
What is it, exactly, you think should be done about actual cases of legitimate, supportable combat logging?
Followed by "He dropped cargo, but where were the mines?"
I will say, "nicely handled" on the part of the aggressors though, they conducted themselves quite appropriately.
That aside, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Nor have I really gotten an answer to my question, which I will restate:
What is it, exactly, you think should be done about actual cases of legitimate, supportable combat logging?
Because we have one Galaxy not several, and mode-switching not separate saves, players who play in Solo are capable of affecting my interests in many ways, including:-
- My Powerplay interests
- My BGS interests
And they are capable of coming into Open and attacking me.
I certainly do believe that a player who comes to a system whose BGS I support and starts killing our NPC cops to tank our influence should lose both rebuy and any cargo if said cops kill him - not that he should be invulnerable, whether by a task-kill or an infinite health hack - which have pretty much the same effect.
Related example: if a player brings Unknown Artefacts in Solo to bomb another player group's system, aiming to take their station offline, and a pirate NPC interdicts him and he is about to die - yes he should die and yes he should lose his UA's.
Plenty of people playing at a different time to you, and others that simply don't get into the same instance, you can't do anything directly about them either. You're going to have to accept that mode switching (or not always playing in Open) is a thing, and that BGS manipulation is a positive way for players to interact across modes without requiring direct confrontation.
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I have also seen players disappear from SC, either because they drop into a signal source, or simply because they go out of range of my scanner. I suspect the player looking for combat loggers see them everywhere. In one of the recent live streams Sandro's game locked up as you describe, I've had it too in popular instances, although I've never had it not come back to a working state again.
Interesting reading. I'm a fairly new player and play Solo because I realize my limitations and until my Thrustmaster joystick arrives, I just suck at combat with a kbd and trackball, even in the training scenario. I'm not dumb enough to go up against people who know what they're doing until I have the chance to practice. However, in that time, even in solo, I've had the server disconnect on several occasions. I'm merely saying that I don't believe there is an across the board solution for those who practice this. On other online games I've also encountered instances of what others consider cheating and a reluctance on the part of the host to deal with them. It becomes a case of playing the game the way you want and if you don't like the way others play - move on. My play style and goals aren't defined by others, it's a matter of what I want to do and I'm perfectly happy to play solo until I decide I want to interact with others.
And nothing prevents you from going into Solo or Private and doing the exact same thing back. Perhaps a better solution would be to remove player-initiated UA bombing entirely, and leave this in the hands of NPCs and the BGS instead. Why is it I am reminded of visiting the day care, seeing the blocks put up on the shelf, away from the kids, and asking the teacher:
"Why are the blocks up on the shelf?"
And being told:
"Because Joey keeps using them to hit Billy in the head with and since they won't play nice with them, no one gets to play with them."
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