Same old song about cheaters
- Thread starter S.at
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No clue what you are talking about. Can I pirate people in CQC? Haven't given it a go yet.
An excellent post, describing circumstances where players are demonstrating an ability to hold ground (ie force other players out of a system), and accepting the consequences of losing gracefully.
I think all three examples can be simplified as Bounty Hunter vs Pirate, where the attacker is chasing off a 'baddie' although either side may or may not be wanted.
I feel this comes much closer to voluntary PvP, and here the punishment for CLing (on either side) should be harsh.
This makes me want to reconsider Ganker vs sheep, because I can see how it would be difficult to recognise the difference between a legitimate attempt to apply overwhelming firepower (Ganking) and an undesirable one done for lols under a thin veil of plausibility (Griefing).
Truesilver, can you come up with a workable definition to distinguish your groups actions from those of a griefer?
Thank you for the invitation but I fear it's beyond my wit, at least in the current iteration of the game.
If we take three examples:
(1) Ronin of Amarak not letting anyone who isn't RoA into Amarak
(2) Adle's Armada attacking a 'Clean' Cmdr in Eravate because he is known by name to be a multiple murderer
(3) Imperial Cmdrs going to Rhea to attack Winters Cmdrs
Only the third one is capable of evaluation by the game (by reason of both sides being pledged).
Concerning the other two, although I personally consider both to be valid, many readers of this forum would presumably want to prevent (1) while permitting (2).
(Hence, presumably, not punish someone who logs in situation 1, but punish someone who logs in situation 2.)
While I personally strongly disagree with value judgments about combat logging, even if we were on the same page about that, I don't see how a game can effectively judge a player's situation or prior actions in order to decide whether what we have is a morally 'good' or 'bad' log...
And I must repeat that I am with Rinzler on the fact that considering some rules of the game to be unfair is not a valid reason to break others!
Clearly we are on the same page Truesilver, yes. I think the common element is the willingness to accept that another player (or group) is able to enforce a no-fly zone, and accepting that (in Open). Many do not as you say, and probably should, regardless of the reason.
I entirely agree with that sentiment too, I just think it is within his/her power to do something about it for the sake of their own enjoyment of the game. If one's playstyle requires the paricipation of others, one should behave in a way that encourages others to want to play with you. This, I feel, is where Rinzlers argument falls down.
I entirely agree with that sentiment too, I just think it is within his/her power to do something about it for the sake of their own enjoyment of the game. If one's playstyle requires the paricipation of others, one should behave in a way that encourages others to want to play with you. This, I feel, is where Rinzlers argument falls down.
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You don't need to cast moral judgement on breaking the game rules. It's irrelevant.
Like I mentioned, I got a 2 day ban (after several warnings) in League for dodging matchmaking queues (because the trolling started before the match even started and I'm not going to waste 30-40 minutes of my life playing with some -literally- teenage trolls. I'm not their parents -shrug-) and leaving games.
I have my reasons to break the game rules and I took the punishment. In the end I had to ask myself, whether I really want to keep playing a game, where I aquire so many rule infractions for reasons that -for me- are completely justified, so I stopped playing it for quite a while and only play occasionally nowadays, when I don't actually care what anyone else on my team is doing.
I'm not sure anyone asks for immediate, complete ban of players breaking the rules while playing with other players, but my point is and will be - if FD thinks they need an open multiplayer mode, at one point in time they need to start enforcing their own rules. Even if it's just on the most severe, confirmed gamerule breakers.
Are you serious with this?
No (not entirely), it has already been explained.
This thread is starting to move towards the 'karma system' discussion.
I don't envy the Devs' job if or when they try to sort that one out...
I don't envy the Devs' job if or when they try to sort that one out...
If I was a FDev, I would add an Open PvE mode, where players could not damage other players, where players could join wings and cooperate without PKills, and let the game sort out what was best for everyone.
Some would play in PVP, some would play in PVE, and some would play in Solo. Eventually, the only combat logs happening would be among griefers, or the occasional crash/net connection failure.
Then, this issue would be naturally solved.
Some would play in PVP, some would play in PVE, and some would play in Solo. Eventually, the only combat logs happening would be among griefers, or the occasional crash/net connection failure.
Then, this issue would be naturally solved.
While I can see popular demand for an officially supported mode analogous to the Mobius groups, I'm not sure it would help much with Combat Logging (could be wrong of course).
Seems to me the type of player that combat logs is into PvP, just not great at dealing with being bested. I can picture people logging into Open (PvP) just as they do now, until they come across a bad situation & switch to PvE. It's the same problem renamed, not a solution (to combat logging).
There is literally libraries full of material on that (even if you have no contact to actual game developers and 'people in the business') and dozens of games who had some better and worse attempts at implementing such systems.
They don't have to invent anything, just look around and implement what's simple, functional and proven. Keep the innovation and actual development work on the core engine, but don't just neglect other aspects because you "don't find time to dig into 20 years of game development of open world open PvP games" or somesuch.
Maybe they are doing just that. FDev have repeatedly said they don't like to rush in new, incomplete features. They develop & hone their new developments, only releasing them when they feel it's right to do so. I remember being deeply impressed with planetary landscapes when they were first introduced in 2.0. Even though they are only heightmaps, the quality was excellent (bugs aside), and they are tweaking them further with every update. I'm sure Atmospheric planets will be a step ahead again when they are introduced, as will their karma system (or whatever) when that is eventually introduced.
[video=youtube;fURU9GuLlos]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fURU9GuLlos[/video]
Most of the stuff people are complaining about are because of new, incomplete features!
Rinzler o7o7o7
Banned
I was once a member of The Code, and abided by all their rules. In theory it was all quite fun; systems would be pirated, traders would get through unharmed with 20% less cargo, and they'd be protected for the next 24 hours.
But no. All I ever got was combat logging asps and condas, and vote brigading/psychoanalyses/death threats on this forum and Reddit for my efforts (apparently I was a "griefer" for pirating players properly and with strict communication rules).
I and most other Code members eventually reached a point where we said "nah, **** this", so we left the Code and joined a small PvP wing that we all knew and respected.
Rinse and repeat this for several other RP-based PvP groups, and you end up with what SDC is today. A group that doesn't give a **** about this community's constant whining any more.
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I think you got my asp once, and yes, you did it by Code rules. That was at least one didn't combat-log on you, instead turned over several tons of what I was hauling at the time. I think, based on where I vaguely remember it happening I was probably hauling Marine Equipment. I could be wrong though, the Code got me several times and I wasn't taking note of which of you it was, simply recorded in my trade notes that I got pirated on a particular route.
When you cheat your way to unlimited re-buys and faction locked ships while the other CMDR plays the game as it's actually meant to be played, i.e. not logging off to the menu all the time to get free credits, you've really just made the whole PvP part pointless. The real player is putting his hard earned credits on the line while you just go collect even more free re-buys if you blow up.
That is why.
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No CQC is pew pew battlefield in small fighter spaceships, in an arena style setting.
But killing a player in Open is not piracy either. Pirates get nothing from destroying a ship in game, only your out of game Lolz or ego gets stroked. CQC is killing other players (if it ever works) and that's all you can do.
Piracy is to relieve a players of their cargo. Failure to do that either by destroying the ship or they escaping is a failure on the Pirate's part.
People CL because of Griefers like SDC who use the weak game mechanics and psudo to justify killing unarmmed, new players, traders. It is not piracy its ganking plin and simple. I will CL against SDC or code etc just because 1. I am not your unwilling content, too I can laugh as your salt about CLers in the forums. Hypocritical as those crying foul the most are the ones that also CL when they piked off more than they can chew.
I'm surprised at the number of people who actually admit to combat logging. It would be helpful if those who do could clarify if they mean menu-logging or a forced disconnect. The former is allowed, the latter is cheating and reportable.
If your objective here was to make yourself out as an , mission accomplished.
[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ljO5yNhmde4[/video]
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