Same old song about cheaters

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veryinky

V
Agony_Aunt said:
That guy isn't SDC. We know who he is and that players (at least to my knowledge) was never affiliated with SDC.
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What about the other people claiming to be SDC in that forum? I got interested in this because of someone claiming to be SDC was at a location where SDC had claimed to be attacking defenseless ships for some reason and that one claiming to be SDC himself had shields that would not go down, to the point that he ignored the station's defenses. I tracked his in game name to that forum where I found others claiming to be SDC.

It's true that I can't tell what a "true" member of SDC is from someone simply claiming to be SDC, but if they're doing the exact same thing in the exact same place in the same way, it's hard to tell.

And "no true SDC cheats" is a "no true scotsman", if they're kicked out the moment they're found cheating that still would leave the time before they were found out where they were within SDC's graces.
 

Rinzler o7o7o7

Banned
Rinzler o7o7o7
veryinky said:
What about the other people claiming to be SDC in that forum? I got interested in this because of someone claiming to be SDC was at a location where SDC had claimed to be attacking defenseless ships for some reason and that one claiming to be SDC himself had shields that would not go down, to the point that he ignored the station's defenses. I tracked his in game name to that forum where I found others claiming to be SDC.

It's true that I can't tell what a "true" member of SDC is from someone simply claiming to be SDC, but if they're doing the exact same thing in the exact same place in the same way, it's hard to tell.

And "no true SDC cheats" is a "no true scotsman", if they're kicked out the moment they're found cheating that still would leave the time before they were found out where they were within SDC's graces.
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Here is a list of all SDC members:

  • Sundae
  • InAbsentia
  • Oddisee
  • Harry Potter
  • Pipko
  • Lord Fondlemaid
  • Doki Doki
  • Spud Nick
  • Sole Hunter
  • Ryan_m17
  • Rinzler o7o7o7
  • S.S.C Star Lion
  • A_Honcho
  • Smokeweez
  • Under9000
  • PeLucheuh
  • Zaiyak Boldemoir
  • z3r05k1ll
  • Skramz
  • Cassis Fanta
  • Phil_T_Casual
  • Kewpa Eurus
  • Di4blo
  • Nitek [pl]
  • Chunk-Fu
  • FYIIdecloak
  • Kinmob
  • m3atloaf
  • Roy Fokker
  • Toasty
  • Toypar
  • Verax

Just so we're clear, none of us cheat. But it does stand to reason that eventually, due to the nature of the group, random people would be willing to masquerade as us and cheat as a form of "smear campaign".
Currently we're actually gimping our FDL's by installing 5A powerplants instead of 6A's in order to make things challenging. And during the official PvP league, we gimped our teams every fight by doing stupid stuff like bringing a mining cutter, installing docking computers on every ship, and carrying biowaste. Quite the opposite of cheating, if you ask me.
 
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Siranui

S
Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
Here is a list of all SDC members:


Just so we're clear, none of us cheat.
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And the name of the person posting the video I mentioned is on that list. Comments?

I appreciate that their exploitation of a known bug didn't work because it's been patched, but that really doesn't change the issue that they were doing it anyway and thought it was working.

But it does stand to reason that eventually, due to the nature of the group, random people would be willing to masquerade as us and cheat as a form of "smear campaign".
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'Random' people aren't pretending they are SDC in order to smear you.

It is not about persecution. This is not an elaborate plot by unpleasant, cheaty people to frame you. This is a not very elaborate plot by unpleasant, cheaty people wanting to *be* you. You are their heroes and they seek to emulate.

They are doing it because they think that they are your kind of people and want to be associated with you. They might have got entirely the wrong end of the stick because you're lovely guys [or alternatively because you're smart enough to keep your noses clean because you know that people will be watching like hawks], but for some reason they have got the mistaken impression that you guys are a bunch of cheating griefers and they'll fit right in.
 
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TomP

TomP
Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
Here is a list of all SDC members:

  • Sundae
  • InAbsentia
  • Oddisee
  • Harry Potter
  • Pipko
  • Lord Fondlemaid
  • Doki Doki
  • Spud Nick
  • Sole Hunter
  • Ryan_m17
  • Rinzler o7o7o7
  • S.S.C Star Lion
  • A_Honcho
  • Smokeweez
  • Under9000
  • PeLucheuh
  • Zaiyak Boldemoir
  • z3r05k1ll
  • Skramz
  • Cassis Fanta
  • Phil_T_Casual
  • Kewpa Eurus
  • Di4blo
  • Nitek [pl]
  • Chunk-Fu
  • FYIIdecloak
  • Kinmob
  • m3atloaf
  • Roy Fokker
  • Toasty
  • Toypar
  • Verax

Just so we're clear, none of us cheat. But it does stand to reason that eventually, due to the nature of the group, random people would be willing to masquerade as us and cheat as a form of "smear campaign".
Currently we're actually gimping our FDL's by installing 5A powerplants instead of 6A's in order to make things challenging. And during the official PvP league, we gimped our teams every fight by doing stupid stuff like bringing a mining cutter, installing docking computers on every ship, and carrying biowaste. Quite the opposite of cheating, if you ask me.
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Thanks for that list, very useful indeed. I see Sundae is not on it. Oh, silly me, he is. I guess menu logging is okay? :D
 
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Riverside

Riverside
Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
Here is a list of all SDC members:

  • Sundae
  • InAbsentia
  • Oddisee
  • Harry Potter
  • Pipko
  • Lord Fondlemaid
  • Doki Doki
  • Spud Nick
  • Sole Hunter
  • Ryan_m17
  • Rinzler o7o7o7
  • S.S.C Star Lion
  • A_Honcho
  • Smokeweez
  • Under9000
  • PeLucheuh
  • Zaiyak Boldemoir
  • z3r05k1ll
  • Skramz
  • Cassis Fanta
  • Phil_T_Casual
  • Kewpa Eurus
  • Di4blo
  • Nitek [pl]
  • Chunk-Fu
  • FYIIdecloak
  • Kinmob
  • m3atloaf
  • Roy Fokker
  • Toasty
  • Toypar
  • Verax

Just so we're clear, none of us cheat. But it does stand to reason that eventually, due to the nature of the group, random people would be willing to masquerade as us and cheat as a form of "smear campaign".
Currently we're actually gimping our FDL's by installing 5A powerplants instead of 6A's in order to make things challenging. And during the official PvP league, we gimped our teams every fight by doing stupid stuff like bringing a mining cutter, installing docking computers on every ship, and carrying biowaste. Quite the opposite of cheating, if you ask me.
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This 'in the name of' issue is a common one throughout, exacerbated by sweeping generalisations.

a) there is no need to specifically single out a particular group. It helps no one.
b) one of the topics I discussed earlier in this thread was disassociation of pirates (and other PvP gameplay) from ganking. It would be in the interests of a regular player to clearly telegraph the role they are playing & their intentions. It is of course in the interests of the simple Griefer to mask their true intentions as one of the other PvP roles.
c) There is no such thing as 'the spirit of the rules', there are only the rules as laid out and as Rinzler states, the intention to honour the rules is a decent ideal, not a baseline. It may not be possible to pin it down in so many words, but taking things too far (behaving contrary to the spirit of the rules while staying within the technical limit of the rules) is usually pretty obvious to the wider community. Any attempt at taking a moral high ground on this basis is rather weak.
 

ArchEmperor

ArchEmperor
InlineSix said:
The Combat Loggers I have met would wear this as proof they're superiour human beings. No joke.
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I propose: Force every combat logger that escapes death, get constantly chased and interdicted by the Grim Reaper. Literally a Grim Reaper flying with its bone hands and skull in a scary black hood and Scythe. It is there to claim the death from which they are trying to escape, constantly creeping up on them. Suddenly appearing after every hyper jump. Until death finally solves it.

Would give them nightmares indeed.
 

Comrade Error

Comrade Error
ArchEmperor said:
I propose: Force every combat logger that escapes death, get constantly chased and interdicted by the Grim Reaper. Literally a Grim Reaper flying with its bone hands and skull in a scary black hood and Scythe. It is there to claim the death from which they are trying to escape, constantly creeping up on them. Suddenly appearing after every hyper jump. Until death finally solves it.

Would give them nightmares indeed.
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It wouldn't be the first time that has been done. :p
 

Pyrotiger

Pyrotiger
Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
Here is a list of all SDC members:

  • Sundae
  • InAbsentia
  • Oddisee
  • Harry Potter
  • Pipko
  • Lord Fondlemaid
  • Doki Doki
  • Spud Nick
  • Sole Hunter
  • Ryan_m17
  • Rinzler o7o7o7
  • S.S.C Star Lion
  • A_Honcho
  • Smokeweez
  • Under9000
  • PeLucheuh
  • Zaiyak Boldemoir
  • z3r05k1ll
  • Skramz
  • Cassis Fanta
  • Phil_T_Casual
  • Kewpa Eurus
  • Di4blo
  • Nitek [pl]
  • Chunk-Fu
  • FYIIdecloak
  • Kinmob
  • m3atloaf
  • Roy Fokker
  • Toasty
  • Toypar
  • Verax

Just so we're clear, none of us cheat. But it does stand to reason that eventually, due to the nature of the group, random people would be willing to masquerade as us and cheat as a form of "smear campaign".
Click to expand...



Rather hilarious. A list of commanders, some are well known to cheat. All this 'people masquerading as them', don't give me that baloney. You're not that important as a collective. You do a good job with propaganda Rinzler, but let's face it, nobody's going to swallow it.

I had an interesting run-in with one last night - though they did nothing wrong. I never bother with Open. Unfortunately, I logged in to Open accidentally, and I had no idea I was in the mode until I was pulled out of SC in Shinrarta Dezhra. Oops. I was flying my fourth-choice Asp - dead meat, basically. The FDL buzzes me, then swings to sit on my    . I'm not cut out for a fight, so I        off a toute vitesse. My thrusters are slightly modded, and I guess I might just have a slight speed advantage if I keep whacking boost. Anyway. The guy says nothing at all. I'm thinking - what an idiot, have I been interdicted by a bored teenager, who wants to toy with me - at least be funny or cool. I'm increasing speed. But - I have no intention of keeping up this little game forever, I shouldn't have been in Open in the first place (my mistake), and I needed a dump. Badly. I believe the 'fight' to be over. I menu log. 15 seconds of waiting. Maybe one shot fired at the start of the interaction as a warning or a frightener - I don't know.

I'm left wondering if that is the true SDC - swanking about in FDLs and nothing to do with them besides torment or d*ck around in them. Nothing to add to the game.

Anyhow. So am I a cheater and should my punishment be an account ban? Let he without sin...
 
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ArchEmperor

ArchEmperor
Spacebaboy said:
Rather hilarious. A list of commanders, some are well known to cheat. All this 'people masquerading as them', don't give me that baloney. You're not that important as a collective. You do a good job with propaganda Rinzler, but let's face it, nobody's going to swallow it.

I had an interesting run-in with one last night - though they did nothing wrong. I never bother with Open. Unfortunately, I logged in to Open accidentally, and I had no idea I was in the mode until I was pulled out of SC in Shinrarta Dezhra. Oops. I was flying my fourth-choice Asp - dead meat, basically. The FDL buzzes me, then swings to sit on my    . I'm not cut out for a fight, so I        off a toute vitesse. My thrusters are slightly modded, and I guess I might just have a slight speed advantage if I keep whacking boost. Anyway. The guy says nothing at all. I'm thinking - what an idiot, have I been interdicted by a bored teenager, who wants to toy with me - at least be funny or cool. I'm increasing speed. But - I have no intention of keeping up this little game forever, I shouldn't have been in Open in the first place (my mistake), and I needed a dump. Badly. I menu log. 15 seconds of waiting. Maybe one shot fired at the start of the interaction as a warning or a frightener - I don't know.

I'm left wondering if that is the true SDC - fancy ships and nothing to do with them besides torment or d*ck around in them. Nothing to add to the game.

Anyhow. So am I a cheater and should my punishment be an account ban? Let he without sin...
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REPENT!! The Grim Reaper is only attacking those who do not give me money.. I mean pray to gOD( as in .oD) for forgiveness.
Grim Reaper should only be visiting those who do not repent and still constantly commit The Ultimate Sin of Combat Logging.

10-commandments.jpg
 
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Zambrick

Zambrick
So we are saying the tools provided by FDEV are themselves against the rules? Anyone can save and exit the game any time they want for any reason they want.

Griefing has no penalty and logging off has no penalty. It will stay that way until the griefers are required to take some sort of risk at their chosen profession. When the police show up and kill you or continue to chase you until you are no longer in anything other than an anarchy system, then you can complain about combat logging. Until then its not cheating and never has been.

Show me me in the EULA where it explicitly states that you must stay online in order for someone to kill you.
Show me in the game description where it states that player controlled trade and exploration vessels are solely responsible for PVP in ED. Right now its completely up to the trading or exploration vessel to shoulder the burden of your chosen game play choices. Griefers do not have to take any risk yet they require that everyone else does. Its hypocritical and boring.

You whine when there is nobody in Open to kill any more. You complain when other people wont allow you to kill them. You complain when you think that a new mechanic will give an advantage to your victims. You complain about everything that may make your job killing another unarmed player harder. Everything is about you and what you want.

This game is not about you and never has been. If and I do mean If FDEV ever decides to ban players for being a toxic griefing burden on the rest of the players, then we would lose well under 1000 players and the community would be better for it. You are the leeches of the community yet you require the most amount of attention?

So until FDEV decides to actually do something either via in game our out of game, Combat logging is a non issue and not enforceable. This is not a survival nor full on MOBA PVP gankfest game. Its not Call of Duty, Battlefield, Ark, DayZ, or Rust. If that is what you want, well you can go there.

If FDEV made griefing difficult in any way, lets face it you wouldnt be here. Its the complete lack of over site and consequence that makes this possible. As soon as risk becomes part of your gameplay your type will fade into the woodwork or leave the game entirely. That day can't come soon enough.
 
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Truesilver

Truesilver
Spacebaboy said:
I menu log. 15 seconds of waiting (...) So am I a cheater and should my punishment be an account ban?
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No, everyone understands that so long as the 15 second menu log exists, employing it isn't cheating.

The (afaik) total consensus amongst PvP-ers is that menu logging or other forms of OOC combat avoidance (such as mode switching after high waking due to fear of pursuit) are dishonourable but nobody is saying they are against the rules.

The task-kill combat log is against the rules though, as all three of David Braben, Michael Brookes and Sandro Sammarco have confirmed.

The PvP-er consensus is that (1) task-kill logging should result in automatic rebuy and further penalties and (2) the menu log should either be removed (while in combat), reset by taking fire, or significantly increased above the current 15 seconds.

I appreciate that the above is not exactly a consensus amongst the wider ED community, of course...
 

Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
All those suggestions are meaningless though.

The game client and watchdog can have as many status monitors and increased timers that FD care to implement.

They mean nothing to a determined combat logger - who isn't going to either care about increased timers or the game client or watchdog.
 
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