We are not playing other games, we are playing this one. I can only suggest you be careful. I am, I counter their counter to my counter, continually. I very, very rarely meet a situation I have not already planned for, This is how I play the game. How you choose to play is up to you, but if it's fast & loose then you have to be prepared to accept the potential consequences of that. I like that ED can take you through this process.
Same old song about cheaters
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We are not playing other games, we are playing this one. I can only suggest you be careful. I am, I counter their counter to my counter, continually. I very, very rarely meet a situation I have not already planned for, This is how I play the game. How you choose to play is up to you, but if it's fast & loose then you have to be prepared to accept the potential consequences of that. I like that ED can take you through this process.
Yes, this is my first MMO too. I find it a little disheartening that in less than a decade I will probably be unable to play as I do now. The EULA gives you the simple truth, we are licensed to install FDev's IP on our local machines, which allows us to connect to their content. It also allows them to provide an ongoing story and other added value.
I'm optimistic that there will eventually be a standalone game patch when the servers are switched off.
It muddies the water, certainly. I don't see it as cheating because, at least to my eye, FD have adequately endorsed such 3rd party apps and services like EBBD, Inara, & coriolis. These services seem to be primarily filling in gaps in the gameplay by providing functions and mechanics that enrich the game.
IMO such services stand in stark contrast to "pulling the plug" as a means to avoid playing [losing] the game.
Also, I just lost the game.
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I have a younger brother.
We're only about 3 years apart, and grew up playing games together mostly. Even then, we still played a lot of single-player campaign games.
He'd get to a tough part, or one that was a little buggy, or a boss battle or something, and if he didn't win, he'd get really angry. If he kept loosing, he'd keep getting angrier. Sometimes, he'd die due to a bug or glitch, often times the particular texture that would bug you out would do it consistently.
He has the controller in his hand. He has the option to avoid that bugged tile, or door, or rock, or what ever. He has the ability to try new strategies. He has the ability to execute his current strategy better.
But instead, he'd often go back to that same buggy texture, get stuck, and get killed, then get angry and throw a controller, blaming the game.
I never understood that.
We're only about 3 years apart, and grew up playing games together mostly. Even then, we still played a lot of single-player campaign games.
He'd get to a tough part, or one that was a little buggy, or a boss battle or something, and if he didn't win, he'd get really angry. If he kept loosing, he'd keep getting angrier. Sometimes, he'd die due to a bug or glitch, often times the particular texture that would bug you out would do it consistently.
He has the controller in his hand. He has the option to avoid that bugged tile, or door, or rock, or what ever. He has the ability to try new strategies. He has the ability to execute his current strategy better.
But instead, he'd often go back to that same buggy texture, get stuck, and get killed, then get angry and throw a controller, blaming the game.
I never understood that.
I agree - I play it my way. I paid for MY game - you didn't! I play Solo, you play Open. I decide if disconnecting my computer from the server via the "approved" menu method or the quicker expedient of disconnecting my way is what I want to do. If I'm not in open play, this doesn't affect you AND even if through some convoluted logic you think it does - too bad. I spent the time and the actual cash - I have an SRV that I paid extra for that is (as far as I'm concerned) after the so-called Update, useless to me. And if I want to disconnect from anything by pulling out the cable, turning off the power or using the task manager - well it's my game and I WILL play it my way! However, reading this thread is just so amusing, I can't help myself!
Enjoy whatever you do, life is too short for me to live by your rules in an imaginary world. Welcome to every games download platform ever.
Yes, even GoG only gives you "your" games as long they don't change their rules.
Gerrman players noticed some games missing from their library as soon cd project had to comply to german youth protection rules becaus they thought that they needed a german website...
And yes games bought or activated on Steam, Origin and Uplay are also not in your possession.
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I have little sympathy for loggers, however, with all the ganging going on constantly, I don't blame them. For them it's the only thing they can do to survive and retaliate against trying to ruin their expierence by killing them in their over engineered ships which completely outclass them, so that I understand.
You highlight what I feel is the point of many on this thread. It isn't your only option and really, it shouldn't be among the list of possible choices you consider when you find yourself in a pickle.
My personal favourite is simply avoiding going there in Open (and being aware of where the hotspots are), but there are always other choices.
Going to websites to learn where the best missions are, and the best trade routes, and how to defeat the AI is cheating and does affect other players.
Says you.. but you cannot support your standard.
It really just sounds like sour grapes.
There's the "you'r playing it wrong because you don't do it like I do" that your side always resorts to.
Meh. I'm sure there's some of that. Mostly I'm offended by people drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and declaring everyone else wrong. I'm also pretty annoyed at people who seem to want to control how others play for no good reason.
It's immoral and you are cheating yourself. I don't do it so it's unfair that you do. You should be stopped. They need to remove that from the game. (and yes: this is exactly how your side sounds to me)
Here's the thing: I don't care how any of you play. I really don't. It doesn't effect me.
But it's obnoxious to see people come on and tell other people how *they* should play. Worry about yourself and enjoy your game. No need to deride or attempt to derail how others play.
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FYI: I need to spread more rep around. The board won't let me give you more.
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
Background: As a relatively new player (started August), I stayed in Solo until I was capable enough to go to Open (when I became fast enough to run away if necessary). I've never CL'ed, ever. Didn't even know what it was until a few days ago. I haven't even menu logged (I now know that term too).
I see over and over PvPers here complaining about combat loggers, saying they should stay in Solo or Private. Well, as a new player and mostly an explorer and doing missions, I want to meet new players. I want to say hello to like-minded people. I want to become part of the online ED "community". You can't do that in Solo, and not properly in Private.
I suspect there are only a small minority of players wanting to kill other players, compared to the number of "carebears" who would like to interact more civilly with other players.
So what gives the PvPers (and especially player killers) the right to say non PvPers should stay in Solo? Why should their desire to kill outweigh the "carebears" right to interact with other players?
As I said in an earlier post, at the beginning of this thread I was on the PvPers side (and tried to give solutions). By the 47th page of this thread, you PvPers have turned me against you. I've now seen far too many instances of complete jerks simply trying to ruin the experience for others, just to get their own lulz. While I won't do it myself, I now say good luck to the menu loggers! Play the way you want and don't be a victim to the "lolzbunnyz who demand that you play the game the way they want" (nicely put, Zambrick).
I see over and over PvPers here complaining about combat loggers, saying they should stay in Solo or Private. Well, as a new player and mostly an explorer and doing missions, I want to meet new players. I want to say hello to like-minded people. I want to become part of the online ED "community". You can't do that in Solo, and not properly in Private.
I suspect there are only a small minority of players wanting to kill other players, compared to the number of "carebears" who would like to interact more civilly with other players.
So what gives the PvPers (and especially player killers) the right to say non PvPers should stay in Solo? Why should their desire to kill outweigh the "carebears" right to interact with other players?
As I said in an earlier post, at the beginning of this thread I was on the PvPers side (and tried to give solutions). By the 47th page of this thread, you PvPers have turned me against you. I've now seen far too many instances of complete jerks simply trying to ruin the experience for others, just to get their own lulz. While I won't do it myself, I now say good luck to the menu loggers! Play the way you want and don't be a victim to the "lolzbunnyz who demand that you play the game the way they want" (nicely put, Zambrick).
Says FDEV; FDEV's official stance is that a forced disconnect is against the rules independent of the chosen mode of play. I don't know of any statement regarding the use of Web resources but I'm pretty sure that it is allowed.
I think that there is a considerable consensus amongst everyone on both sides of this debate that the whole crime & punishment, or 'karma system' side of ED needs a complete rework. I've discussed this in other threads and on reddit and most people appear to want:
- Strong penalties for repeated unjustified player on player attacks in high sec, including hostility across the whole of a major faction, docking denials, etc
- Something less in lower sec
- Nothing in anarchies
- The introduction of a risk/reward structure meaning civilians who venture into lower sec get something for it (if they survive)
- Complete exemption for Powerplay Cmdr v Powerplay v Cmdr attacks, meaning those who wish to PvP are incentivised to pledge and those who don't are safer
- etc etc
If all of that were introduced then the 'forum justification' for combat logging (an innocent, attacked by a gang of buffed-up murderers, desperately saves his precious ship in the agony of the moment) would be much reduced.
But would the incidence of combat logging be much reduced? Of course the scenario I just described happens, we all know that.
But as I have said in many posts now (usually, without response, because it doesn't fit the forum cliche meme) I have only ever attacked the Wanted or Powerplay or KoS enemies and yet I have seen my fair share of logging. Under the new C and P system above my targets would be more or less the same and hence the incidence of logging would presumably be the same.
And what is more, I'll say this for the umpteenth time:
The worst loggers in this game are themselves the aggressors. There is a handful of them who have killed hundreds or thousands of Sidewinders each and who log to avoid retribution.
Those who defend loggers are ironically the defenders of the very people they most despise.
Be realistic - how many times is an innocent trader going to have to log? Conversely, how many times are the guys who store their FdL's and Corvettes at Cleve Hub, Eravate, slaughter Sideys daily, laugh about it in local, but don't want Adle's Armada to give them a single rebuy (so they can stay notorious on the bounty board) going to have to log?
It's orders of magnitude different.
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Wait...you are defining as cheating the simple act of reading? and learning about the game anywhere but inside the game? Like this forum?
From your quote, you seem to be saying if a player doesn't learn every single thing on their own - what missions pay better, what routes are more efficient, the very concept or idea of calculating credits/hour if a new player didn't know that concept, etc...that is 'cheating'?
You also singled out "going to websites to learn..." - are you saying the very act of learning / reading is 'cheating'? Or only if you read if outside the game? Because this forum is a website, so if I learn something here about what type or even where good missions can be found, that is 'cheating'? Does reading it off a post-it note make it ok because it's not a site?
You have two really far out, extreme positions here -
1. if a player learns anything outside the game, that is 'cheating'
2. if a player goes to a website specifically to learn info on the game -> also cheating (but unsure if you're so extreme you mean all sources of info, or just "websites" as a red flag.
I'd hope so. If the worst offenders are the sidewinder killers as you say and those offenders are sufficiently penalised (loss of credits, revocation of docking rights, etc) then combat logs are reduced on the basis that a lesser number of players engage in sidewinder killings.
Once you have low sec and anarchy missions up and running offering higher rewards thus luring players into those regions of space then some of the mission takers may be tempted to log at times. Some fair warning in game could help adjust the moral compass somewhat. Players who knowingly take risks are less likely to combat log since control over their destiny has now somewhat shifted into their own hands.
I don't know any songs about cheetahs. I know one about a lion that sleeps at night in the jungle. Which is quite remarkable, since they usually are active at night and no where near the jungle (Source: QI) And one about a Barracuda.
The only thing I know is that cheetahs are pretty quick.... now you see them, now you don't ...
Agreed.
Don’t forget what happened with 2.1 AI and all of these solutions will make the game considerably more difficult and that’s the main reason are not in the game already (for me a mistake).
Can we lobby in that direction?
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I'm pretty satisfied that a simple blacklist would do it. If people can't play nicely together give them a (awkward to use) interface that allows them to solve their own problem. Any complaints about Combat Loggers? Well use the Blacklist. Any complaints about being ganked? Well use the Blacklist. Newbie getting ganked? Here, go to this name & shame website & add these names to your list.
Simple.
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