Say goodbye to Anarchies

[Brrokk]

I just wish FD would stop this all criminal violence etc = anarchy systems thinking. Its counter productive and the anarchy issue we see today is a symptom of this mindset.

I guess it's tradition and lore. In the 1980s, Riedequat was the place you really didn't go with cargo unless you wanted an epic battle. All because it had the Anarchy field set.

 

[fishevi]

Who's Arthur Tomlie? Is he from Naboo?

Lol, funny, but lets keep thread serious since it is a serious matter.
Especially with CM involved and investigating.
I'm sure they would like to read precise player feedback from cmdrs that know their bgs, especially Anarchy bgs.

So I show my support(as potential Odyssey buyer) for this matter.
And will leave more experienced cmdrs to explain and debate mechanics of it.

@vindelanos not lecturing you in any way, just we should try to get the most from Fdev's and CM's attention about this. Peace

 

[Brrokk]

There is no outlaw behaviour possible in Elite- The carebears will cry too much if you try steal from them and it isnt worth the hassle anyway. Thats if you even find them in Open.
Try to fight system police= ATR eventually turn up and provide an interesting fight then likely a rebuy.
The only real outlaw behaviour possible is ganking, which never gets old, but its not exactly a popular gameloop.

I have taken to attacking AX pilots just because it feels vaguely rebellious, plus the salt is epic.

Fantastically tenuous link from the thread topic to bashing "carebears" there, well done.
But I don't buy it. I think you've taken to attacking AX pilots mainly because they can't shoot back.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Was Obi Wan from Naboo or something?

Nah, he's just lonely:

Obi Wanna Boo


Edit:
Ooops, sorry @fishevi

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Lol, funny, but lets keep thread serious since it is a serious matter.
Especially with CM involved and investigating.
I'm sure they would like to read precise player feedback from cmdrs that know their bgs, especially Anarchy bgs.

So I show my support(as potential Odyssey buyer) for this matter.
And will leave more experienced cmdrs to explain and debate mechanics of it.

@vindelanos not lecturing you in any way, just we should try to get the most from Fdev's and CM's attention about this. Peace

OK, I know it's important to you guys, and the game as a whole.

 

[Unknown Zombie]

I'll admit up front that I haven't read the whole thread. But lately I have been beating up an anarchy faction just by trolling around their settlements ... Doing whatever I please to them just so that I can learn the new Odyssey game mechanics without getting a half dozen bounties every time I open a damned door.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with that idea, and I'm sure it's not helping anarchy factions much.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I'll admit up front that I haven't read the whole thread. But lately I have been beating up an anarchy faction just by trolling around their settlements ... Doing whatever I please to them just so that I can learn the new Odyssey game mechanics without getting a half dozen bounties every time I open a damned door.

Real men wipe out lawful settlements, Zombie.
They wear their bounties like a crown.

 

[soloe]

NPCs. And here we hit upon another problem, it would be fun to pirate players, but combat logging is so ubiquitous and unpunished, and 15s before they log doesnt give you much time to milk them....

Yeah I hear you. There are some good customers too though. The tritium CG looks promising btw. I think I'll log in and see what goes this week.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I guess it's tradition and lore. In the 1980s, Riedequat was the place you really didn't go with cargo unless you wanted an epic battle. All because it had the Anarchy field set.

The problematic factor is that the BGS topography can change, unlike in 84 Elite.

Its a problem because the money and draws in ED are for lawful gameplay and no real temptations to be bad exist- hence why any anarchy is targetted for being 'bad'.

 

[soloe]

Not a pirate, but due to the wonky justice system in EDO (it's the same than the one that put a fine for loitering in burning station, just sayin'), I've been sent to space jail more than once after death.
While I don't know about the FC, the ship is left where it is when you die, so is the SRV (but usually they destroy it during the fight). In space jail, you have to get an Apex shuttle to go anywhere, then use Inter Astra thing to tow your ship back. I've heard of some space jail with an inter astra, but never saw one so far.

When you are killed on the ground, you have to pay your fine/bounty when you are sent to jail (no choices), so everything's cleared on the ship you use to commit the crime (or drop you near the crime site).


If you ask about justice system in Anarchy system, you don't get fines or bounty there, on the ground. However, someone reported he had one once, but I assume it's a bug (I've been happily shooting NPC there no problem).

what. So punishment includes not being able to play for a while? This new bounty mechanism is

 

[Fake Newts]

I'll admit up front that I haven't read the whole thread. But lately I have been beating up an anarchy faction just by trolling around their settlements ... Doing whatever I please to them just so that I can learn the new Odyssey game mechanics without getting a half dozen bounties every time I open a damned door.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with that idea, and I'm sure it's not helping anarchy factions much.

Yeah, the thing is people have been trolling around anarchy systems in a similar manner for years - that's kind of what's cool about them for many people. The difference is when you troll around in space it doesn't directly damage the anarchy any more than the system's other factions due to the spread of ship spawns and lack of issued bounties. It also gives those supporting anarchies an opportunity to attack their rivals without consequence which goes some way to offsetting the lack of INF tools available.

Essentially losing this protection is a big part of what we're seeing here, I'm pretty sure, combined with the narrow parameters for raid missions and the fact that emergent antagonists for all odyssey encounters seem to be almost exclusively anarchy grunts.

If Frontier really wants a generic "raider" class NPC for cannon fodder I'd rather they came up with BGS-neutral grunts like Civ's barbarians, but I think following what space missions do and spreading the love violence around factions more equally would be a better fit. If anarchies have to be the whipping boys going forward... then we need a form for PMFs to apply to change government type. Tragic as it'd be, I think many of us would rather throw in the towel and give up the lawless life than lose everything we've worked towards (edit: I wouldn't personally, but I've heard rumblings... which is very sad.)

Anyway, very pleased and relieved that Arthur has responded, we'll see what happens next.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah, the thing is people have been trolling around anarchy systems in a similar manner for years - that's kind of what's cool about them for many people. The difference is when you troll around in space it doesn't directly damage the anarchy any more than the system's other factions due to the spread of ship spawns and lack of issued bounties. It also gives those supporting anarchies an opportunity to attack their rivals without consequence which goes some way to offsetting the lack of INF tools available.

Essentially losing this protection is a big part of what we're seeing here, I'm pretty sure, combined with the narrow parameters for raid missions and the fact that emergent antagonists for all odyssey encounters seem to be almost exclusively anarchy grunts.

If Frontier really wants a generic "raider" class NPC for cannon fodder I'd rather they came up with BGS-neutral grunts like Civ's barbarians, but I think following what space missions do and spreading the love violence around factions more equally would be a better fit. If anarchies have to be the whipping boys going forward... then we need a form for PMFs to apply to change government type. Tragic as it'd be, I think many of us would rather throw in the towel and give up the lawless life than lose everything we've worked towards (edit: I wouldn't personally, but I've heard rumblings... which is very sad.)

Anyway, very pleased and relieved that Arthur has responded, we'll see what happens next.

This is what I mean about criminal gameplay : give anarchies advantages. Make BM rewards much higher- make crime pay and people will smell the money and anarchies won't be so vulnerable.

 

[Ruurka]

I want to see message in Galnet regarding anarchies and their reorganisation within their ranks and within their black markets.

They first must paid more for their (anarchies) missions (those illegally missions) than from lawful factions and things maybe starts to change.

 

[Fake Newts]

This is what I mean about criminal gameplay : give anarchies advantages. Make BM rewards much higher- make crime pay and people will smell the money and anarchies won't be so vulnerable.

Again, I absolutely agree, but this strikes me as long-term wishlisting rather than a likely means to prevent the imminent destruction of years' worth of player coordination. I don't see them incentivising criminality and rebalancing income overnight to fix it, and even if they did I don't see the hordes of Odyssey feetmen suddenly dropping the incredibly imbalanced "shoot pirate feetman!" and lootcrative settlement spam content in favour of canny smuggling. Stop the decline then figure out where to go after, IMO, but we don't fundamentally seem to disagree on anything otherwise.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Again, I absolutely agree, but this strikes me as long-term wishlisting rather than a likely means to prevent the imminent destruction of years' worth of player coordination. I don't see them incentivising criminality and rebalancing income overnight to fix it, and even if they did I don't see the hordes of Odyssey feetmen suddenly dropping the incredibly imbalanced "shoot pirate feetman!" and lootcrative settlement spam content in favour of canny smuggling. Stop the decline then figure out where to go after, IMO, but we don't fundamentally seem to disagree on anything otherwise.

We only differ on solution, really. For me, its a systemic failure in how the BGS works and requires a systemic solution which is more long term, but it not need be. For example I wonder if anarchy BMs paid out VO levels of money and regularly sold drugs and all the good stuff they'd become proper criminal hubs worth saving, while making anarchy factions give out very profitable smuggling missions and passengers. People are addicted to money making in ED, if more money can be made faster they'll go for it and protect those sources.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

As non-anarchical as it sounds, maybe those of us who support anarchy factions (myself included) should get together and come up with a plan?

We need our own space, a mutual defense/support pact, and recruits.

Some of this is in place however I'm not sure if every anarchy supporting group is in contact with each other- Discord groups exist for this sort of thing but I'm also aware that this isn't for everyone. We are fairly scattered as well (our squad operates mainly around Colonia, for example) but we are in touch with like-minded groups in the bubble.

To anyone out there interested in supporting anarchy factions and wanting to work with, or at least being in contact with other groups out there, there's a few of us in this thread that you could contact to make that happen and between us all maybe bring some more active groups together (or even help bring individuals together to form new ones).

However perhaps we might postpone the burning given that this has been escalated. The BGS can always be put back together- we just need the means to do so.

 

[Welsh Wizard]

Fantastically tenuous link from the thread topic to bashing "carebears" there, well done.
But I don't buy it. I think you've taken to attacking AX pilots mainly because they can't shoot back.

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."

Will usually happily attack any CMDR that moves, shoot back or otherwise, and will equally happily run away when outmatched. AX pilots are just in predictable places, and have tough ships, are often in a wing which makes for an exciting time. Plus they get extra salty when you tell them you are a Thargoid Conservation Officer and tell them not to pet the space-lettuces

 

[Obi Wan Naboo]

Every tick is now just a harbinger of more horrific news. More wars, and to add insult to injury another surface installation as a prize should we win.

 

[Erei]

what. So punishment includes not being able to play for a while? This new bounty mechanism is

In the event I was not clear enough, you're just send to jail, but you are "free". The only wait time is the Apex and towing the ship. Unless you go to a station with another ship or buy one, ofc.
It's not too long of a wait if you are inside the bubble. Apex are fairly fast.

Now, if you are caught far away from a detention center, it can be annoying to wait for towing the ship.

 

[soloe]

In the event I was not clear enough, you're just send to jail, but you are "free". The only wait time is the Apex and towing the ship. Unless you go to a station with another ship or buy one, ofc.
It's not too long of a wait if you are inside the bubble. Apex are fairly fast.

Now, if you are caught far away from a detention center, it can be annoying to wait for towing the ship.

Yeah so just what I expected. Really bad design imo. In best case, when it's not too long of a wait, what does that mean? 10 minutes without any gameplay whatsoever? 15?