SCBs boil my blood.
- Thread starter CMDR Hagglebeard
- Start date
The entire complaint is about PvP. PvPers want the game changed to suit their game style. Many players don't do PvP. For them, they are outnumbered any time they enter the fray. They might face wings in a RES site, while they are engaged with one ship the wing is tearing away their shields. Unless the solo player can get NPC wingmates, they need the SCB to make it feasible.
Plenty of you got to where you are in the game financially because you spammed the SCB relentlessly. Now you're there with your A grade ship and you want the elevator disabled so everyone else has to walk the stairs.
There should not even be shields truth be told. It's a fantasy aspect that has no basis in science. Like someone said, just have tougher hulls and no need for shields. I realize the whole Star Trek thing is popular but shields are cartoonish.
Plenty of you got to where you are in the game financially because you spammed the SCB relentlessly. Now you're there with your A grade ship and you want the elevator disabled so everyone else has to walk the stairs.
There should not even be shields truth be told. It's a fantasy aspect that has no basis in science. Like someone said, just have tougher hulls and no need for shields. I realize the whole Star Trek thing is popular but shields are cartoonish.
yes which i think needs to be fixed as well and the current planned fix i think is garbage...but my point on the hull reinforcements is I would just ram the ship that doesn't have them (lets not get into the ramming debate please) which would surely knock his shields off line in short order because of my heavier mass.
I don't think they would be dumb if they fixed Power Plant sniping. The module targeting system is a great idea..but who ever try's to take you your opponents weapons, or life support...no one.....even though if they made that more of a valid tactic than shooting a power plant buried under hull upgrades and hull reinforcements engagements would be a lot more fun
Me thinks you have one too many zeros or your insurance agent is Bernie Madoff.
Technically, in terms of numbers you can do this with a Federal Dropship or Anaconda. By the way, does anyone else find it silly that the Federal Dropship has more hull mass than an Anaconda? It can't even justify it with armor, because the Anaconda has more base armor than it.
Anyway, if you stuff an Anaconda's 4/5 slots full of D-rating reinforcement packages (because as far as I know, right now they only go up to 5D) you'll get 960 armor from the reinforcement packages alone, plus the 945 base to give you 1905 total armor. Stick military composite on there for the 50% damage reduction and you'll have 3810 effective armor. Assuming "armor"=HP and it uses the same scale as shield strength, that is a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Alternatively, stick Reactive Armor on there for 25% laser resistance and 75% kinetic resistance. Whether that's a good idea or not depends on just how much natural resistance hulls have towards lasers already and whether those numbers are actually accurate (because I don't have a solid source for them, they're... guesstimates), but it'd give you 7620 effective armor against Kinetic weapons. And you can still stick whatever you want into the C6/C7 slots, including an A7 shield generator if you feel like it. Course, it would send your mass through the roof. Good luck jumping anywhere.
On the FDS, in theory you could fill its C5-3 slots with hull reinforcements for 720 armor, which with the 540 base would give you 1260 total armor. Stick whatever you want in the 6 and 2. Put military composite on there for 2520 effective armor against all damage types or reactive for (theoretically) 5040 effective armor against kinetic only. You'd be the chunkiest little space brick.
And then you lose your Power Plant and die with 95% of your hull left.
Sums up my thoughts nicely. +1
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PVP'er here..arguing not to change the game.
reposted from the other thread regarding this issue that I just posted in.......
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Okay, now caught up on 17 pages.....all I will say regarding this is my position hasn't changed since the last thread regarding this issue that I posted in. SCB's are plainly and simply unbalancing and overpowered, they imo should be limited to 1 per ship like a shield generator or fuel scoop. They are a crutch for some and I think that the ones most vocal about keeping the status quo are the ones that probably have multiples equipped in almost every ship they own. PvP should not come down to he who has the most batteries has the best chance (overwhelming advantage) of being the victor in the outcome. Small ships should not be able to go toe to toe with much larger ships simply because they get shield cell batteries and no ships should be able to take on entire groups of superior ships without a second thought because they have the magic instant shield recharge module in multiples and the ships they are engaging do not. PvP should not be decided by he whom has more batteries wins or 10 minute+ slugfests because both ships have multiple batteries.
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Okay, now caught up on 17 pages.....all I will say regarding this is my position hasn't changed since the last thread regarding this issue that I posted in. SCB's are plainly and simply unbalancing and overpowered, they imo should be limited to 1 per ship like a shield generator or fuel scoop. They are a crutch for some and I think that the ones most vocal about keeping the status quo are the ones that probably have multiples equipped in almost every ship they own. PvP should not come down to he who has the most batteries has the best chance (overwhelming advantage) of being the victor in the outcome. Small ships should not be able to go toe to toe with much larger ships simply because they get shield cell batteries and no ships should be able to take on entire groups of superior ships without a second thought because they have the magic instant shield recharge module in multiples and the ships they are engaging do not. PvP should not be decided by he whom has more batteries wins or 10 minute+ slugfests because both ships have multiple batteries.
You know what I couldn't get my head around when upgrading to bigger, better ships?
I was buying significantly larger, more powerful shield generators to shield them with, but each upgrade took significantly longer to recharge.
That kind of sucks.
I reckon shield recharge times should be the same if you're running an A rated shield generator in a Sidewinder or an Anaconda.
Do that and there's no need for SCBs.
Rough figures for the sake of demonstrating:
E: 75 seconds
D: 75 seconds (lighter than E)
C: 60 seconds
B: 45 seconds
A: 30 seconds
Limit strength based on class. Class 1 shields go down faster than class 8.
Bang, done.
I was buying significantly larger, more powerful shield generators to shield them with, but each upgrade took significantly longer to recharge.
That kind of sucks.
I reckon shield recharge times should be the same if you're running an A rated shield generator in a Sidewinder or an Anaconda.
Do that and there's no need for SCBs.
Rough figures for the sake of demonstrating:
E: 75 seconds
D: 75 seconds (lighter than E)
C: 60 seconds
B: 45 seconds
A: 30 seconds
Limit strength based on class. Class 1 shields go down faster than class 8.
Bang, done.
Some PvPers
Technically, in terms of numbers you can do this with a Federal Dropship or Anaconda. By the way, does anyone else find it silly that the Federal Dropship has more hull mass than an Anaconda? It can't even justify it with armor, because the Anaconda has more base armor than it.
Anyway, if you stuff an Anaconda's 4/5 slots full of D-rating reinforcement packages (because as far as I know, right now they only go up to 5D) you'll get 960 armor from the reinforcement packages alone, plus the 945 base to give you 1905 total armor. Stick military composite on there for the 50% damage reduction and you'll have 3810 effective armor. Assuming "armor"=HP and it uses the same scale as shield strength, that is a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Alternatively, stick Reactive Armor on there for 25% laser resistance and 75% kinetic resistance. Whether that's a good idea or not depends on just how much natural resistance hulls have towards lasers already and whether those numbers are actually accurate (because I don't have a solid source for them, they're... guesstimates), but it'd give you 7620 effective armor against Kinetic weapons. And you can still stick whatever you want into the C6/C7 slots, including an A7 shield generator if you feel like it. Course, it would send your mass through the roof. Good luck jumping anywhere.
On the FDS, in theory you could fill its C5-3 slots with hull reinforcements for 720 armor, which with the 540 base would give you 1260 total armor. Stick whatever you want in the 6 and 2. Put military composite on there for 2520 effective armor against all damage types or reactive for (theoretically) 5040 effective armor against kinetic only. You'd be the chunkiest little space brick.
And then you lose your Power Plant and die with 95% of your hull left.
exactly the problem and why shields have become so important.
No, it's about a module which is so overpowering that there is only one viable tactic and player style - use that as much as you can. Whoever has the most SCBs wins.
This problem effects everyone trying to play in open regardless of whether they are PvP or PvE.
Nobody playing pure PvE is going to load up on these things, as they'll be trading, pirating, mining, or whatever, and have other modules to perform those tasks. PvPers (the ones in it to test their skill and fight for bragging rights anyway) will likely be skilled enough to play without an "iWin" button.
The best use of SCBs is simply to make combat risk-free.
Stronger hulls across the entire ship range, and further nerf energy weapons vs hulls.
Remove powerplants from being able to be targeted altogether. If someone wants to take an Anaconda down in their Vulture, they have to disable/weaken the engines and stay on the blind side.
Revamp stealth and heat gameplay properly, make shieldless combat a viable option for smaller ships.
I totally agree there. This guy had some great ideas about how shields should be:
[video=youtube;aL2_oa_5D8A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL2_oa_5D8A[/video]
They didn't follow through with his ideas though.
Well to be fair and add to the discussion, the current news is that PP=ship destruction will be removed in the next update. Instead you'll be dead in space and need to do a reboot (cannibalize parts to fix the PP).
Now, grated you're probably STILL dead in most cases since it takes a minute and unless you've got buddies helping you they'll just pound you while dead in space (and there is still a chance of critical meltdown an insta-death, just not a certainty), but I do think it's a step in the right direction.
Still, DEATH TO SHIELD POTIONS!!!!
Now, grated you're probably STILL dead in most cases since it takes a minute and unless you've got buddies helping you they'll just pound you while dead in space (and there is still a chance of critical meltdown an insta-death, just not a certainty), but I do think it's a step in the right direction.
Still, DEATH TO SHIELD POTIONS!!!!
Part bolded: Explain how it affect these people outside of the PvP game play. Just saying it doesn't make it any more clear.
Also, according to your response no one is using the SCB since pure PvE traders, miners and pirates don't need them since they are PvE and have other modules (?) to perform the same function, and PvPers are skilled and don't use them. Who does? Why is there a problem? Is there a category I'm missing here? Is it bounty hunters or combat zone folks?
Obviously miners and traders are always pure PvE, that leaves pirates who can go PvP or PvE. Is it the pirate that's causing all the problems?
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To me it's not even that - it's the domino effect of cause and effect it creates after that.
It's not not even largely a PvE vs PvP issue - it's the middle class that suffers most - SCBs only widen this gap and create two camps, and in the end there is little, if any, room for middle ground.
Well to be fair and add to the discussion, the current news is that PP=ship destruction will be removed in the next update. Instead you'll be dead in space and need to do a reboot (cannibalize parts to fix the PP).
Now, grated you're probably STILL dead in most cases since it takes a minute and unless you've got buddies helping you they'll just pound you while dead in space (and there is still a chance of critical meltdown an insta-death, just not a certainty), but I do think it's a step in the right direction.
Still, DEATH TO SHIELD POTIONS!!!!
It will still be PP=Death as you have said. It takes to long to repair..repair modules don't fix PP (unless that is being changed too...dont think it is) and if I reboot and repair what is it going to give me? 1-2% health...oooo...that shouldn't be immediately shot out again as it is with thrusters are now. I know they released a picture that shows the bubbles of the modules. Hull upgrades and reinforcements should make those bubbles much smaller. The PP should be one of the hardest things to hit with the most amount of armor and health as it is one of the most critical components of the ship. Next would be thrusters with FSD coming in third. How stupid is it that he most critical aspects of the ship are just as vulnerable...if not more vulnerable (easier to hit and kill a PP than a weapon) than the least critical.
Yes, I don't really think the changes to PP damage will alter that much in the end.
A better solution IMO would be to require higher weapon penetration in order to reach internal modules and/or higher protection to internal modules as long as total hull hp is high.
Or, maybe just a complete rework of how the damage model and armor works.
A better solution IMO would be to require higher weapon penetration in order to reach internal modules and/or higher protection to internal modules as long as total hull hp is high.
Or, maybe just a complete rework of how the damage model and armor works.
As to why this will become apparent in a minute.
Not pirates.
PKers. Not PvP. Not people interested in fighting or combat. People interested in simply interdicting and destroying other players for nothing more than the destruction itself.
I'm sorry, your agument is flawed. I've never used SCB - ever, so their eradication would make zero difference to the PVE aspect of the game (I don't, as a rule PvP, coz I'm lovely) for me and I can cheerfully survive CZ's, coz if you find your radar devoid of friendlies it's because YOU'VE messed up and allowed yourself to be pulled out of position. Thus, what you're saying is bascially this; "SCB's compensate for my lack of situational awarenes". Other people might call this noobish flying or simply; incompetence. But I wouldn't do that, what with my loveliness and all.
1 per ship seems reasonable, would suggest that applies to the boosters as well as the banks.
One thing I still haven't got answered. If you are strictly PvE...and have absolutely no interest in PvP....why are you in open? There is nothing to gain...only heartache. People will interact with people in ways you don't agree with. People will use built in game mechanics in ways you don't agree with. People will build ships in ways you don't agree with and you will come to the forums and DEMAND the devs to change things that many people are fine with.
It won't take too many more nerfs or pandering to the masses before I decide to play another game.
It won't take too many more nerfs or pandering to the masses before I decide to play another game.
Soooo, you're saying if you're PvE you should get the heck out of your sandbox?
Honestly I think the real problem here isn't strict PvE player or PvP players. Each of them adapt to play within their chosen environments.
It's those in between, the middle class if you will, that suffer.
I do not PvP as a rule. However, I am THRILLED when I have such an encounter (ie interdicted by pirate, attacked in CZ, etc). People like me are the ones that suffer, because you quickly find there is no middle ground. You're either a SCB tank, or you're dead.
This isn't a question of someone like me wanting to do everything, it's -- as has been pointed out numerous times -- that the SCB system creates a gulf between PvE players and PvP. This is not inclusive gameplay, it's increasingly exclusive.
PvPers, do you want your only thrills in combat to come from other equally kitted PvP ships? Don't you want your prey to put up a decent fight, whether they're NPC or PvE? And don't you want the option to do other things than fight if the mood strikes you, without having to fly back and get your PvE ship every dang time?
PvEers, don't you want to be able to get in an unexpected fight with a player and not simply feel doomed because there is zero chance of survival?
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