SCBs boil my blood.

[deathmagnet]

People actually do that? You can just deselect your targets, and trade them using all their slots for chaff with you only having slightly weaker weapons than when they were fixed.
I don't think the circumstances are the similar enough to warrant a direct comparison.

Why not??? double and triple chaff can make it where you can non stop use chaff...so ya you can deselect them...making it harder to hit them AND reducing your weapons damage...you are okay with a tactic that would reduce weapons damage but not one that would increase shield strength?

Edit: the fact that you don't know this tactic shows how little PvP you are aware of. I think a lot of people asking for these changes don't actually have a significant background in PvP...some maybe but most I would think not.

Further edit: on ships like the Clipper it makes 2 weapons slots useless as the weapons placement is too far apart to use fixed.

 

[Defacto]

Why not??? double and triple chaff can make it where you can non stop use chaff...so ya you can delect them...making it harder to hit them AND reducing your weapons damage...you are okay with a tactic that would reduce weapons damage but not one that would increase shield strength?

An item that replaces a cargo hold and often gives you many minutes of survivability under heavy weapons fire, as opposed to an item, which replaces utility items, and forces gimbal weapon user to fight fixed, but only permamently when you have 2-3 of them.

 

[deathmagnet]

An item that replaces a cargo hold and often gives you many minutes of survivability under heavy weapons fire, as opposed to an item, which replaces utility items, and forces gimbal weapon user to fight fixed, but only permamently when you have 2-3 of them.

and in some cases make some weapons slots useless because of weapons placement. Clipper being reduced to 2 hardpoints not 4

 

[Defacto]

and in some cases make some weapons slots useless because of weapons placement. Clipper being reduced to 2 hardpoints not 4

Fair enough

 

[ROSS-128]

Why not??? double and triple chaff can make it where you can non stop use chaff...so ya you can deselect them...making it harder to hit them AND reducing your weapons damage...you are okay with a tactic that would reduce weapons damage but not one that would increase shield strength?

Edit: the fact that you don't know this tactic shows how little PvP you are aware of. I think a lot of people asking for these changes don't actually have a significant background in PvP...some maybe but most I would think not.

You might notice that nobody is complaining about shield boosters, even though those also directly (and passively) increase your shield HP. That's because each shield booster only gives you 20% extra shields, about 40-120 HP on most ships. And how many times you benefit from them in combat depends on how many times you manage to recharge your shields to full, which given how long it takes for shields to recharge normally is not that much.

SCBs can give you +100% shields per bank, multiple times in the same fight until it eventually runs out of ammo. The difference in scale is massive.

If SCBs were changed so that they gave a reasonable boost to your recharge rate instead of instantly granting an entire ship's worth of extra shields, people might complain less.

 

[Aoife Thomas]

For, that last part, you really don't. Each appropriately sized rack of scb's increases the time to kill by at least 1.5 times. Full pvp loadout on an NPC python will multiply the time it takes to kill it by 3-4 times, or more, depending how good/lucky at sniping a powerplant you are.

And you completely miss the point of the argument. The argument is that right now your choice is either use scb's or lose (when fighting between equally skilled people), and that something has to change to allow meaningful choices to exist.

Combine that with the fact that scb's even help you escape if you do find yourself in a fight with such a huge skill differential they won't make up the difference, and it's pretty clear they're an outlier right now.

 

[hanks01]

Not using them seems a poor tactic to me. It is a combat resource and if you choose not to use it, for whatever reason, then it's on you. Things shouldn't get nerffed just because people don't like something they are not using. If it is available to the whole,ingame, population it doesn't need a nerffing.....people just have to make a choice, use it or don't.

I can understand this point of view. In PVP in most games a select set of builds will end up being the most used. Obviously some people will want any ship to be able to face another (the Eagle vs Anaconda thread was particularly entertaining) but within reason there will be some builds that work well for those encounters. I think all they need to do is change the effect that SCBs have on a few ships (as they are a tad OP on certain ones) and it'll all be golden.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

You might notice that nobody is complaining about shield boosters, even though those also directly (and passively) increase your shield HP. That's because each shield booster only gives you 20% extra shields, about 40-120 HP on most ships. And how many times you benefit from them in combat depends on how many times you manage to recharge your shields to full, which given how long it takes for shields to recharge normally is not that much.

SCBs can give you +100% shields per bank, multiple times in the same fight until it eventually runs out of ammo. The difference in scale is massive.

If SCBs were changed so that they gave a reasonable boost to your recharge rate instead of instantly granting an entire ship's worth of extra shields, people might complain less.

That's interesting.
I think a guy called "babelfisch" (sp?) suggested something similar...dunno which thread though.

There's probably nothing more disheartening than working down shields, only for them to magically pop up again.

 

[hanks01]

SCBs can give you +100% shields per bank, multiple times in the same fight until it eventually runs out of ammo. The difference in scale is massive.

If SCBs were changed so that they gave a reasonable boost to your recharge rate instead of instantly granting an entire ship's worth of extra shields, people might complain less.

Worth noting that's only on certain ships that you get 100% health back.

 

[deathmagnet]

You might notice that nobody is complaining about shield boosters, even though those also directly (and passively) increase your shield HP. That's because each shield booster only gives you 20% extra shields, about 40-120 HP on most ships. And how many times you benefit from them in combat depends on how many times you manage to recharge your shields to full, which given how long it takes for shields to recharge normally is not that much.

SCBs can give you +100% shields per bank, multiple times in the same fight until it eventually runs out of ammo. The difference in scale is massive.

If SCBs were changed so that they gave a reasonable boost to your recharge rate instead of instantly granting an entire ship's worth of extra shields, people might complain less.

The only way I get a full recharge is if I use 2 at the same time. Anything less than that is ineffective when fighting with or against the higher class ships so I actually have less uses than my internal compartments would make you thinking. I think you math is wrong be cause there have been multiple times on my 700 shield python that a double SCB still does not completely fill my shields.

 

[Aoife Thomas]

Worth noting that's only on certain ships that you get 100% health back.

No on almost all ships (pretty much every one but an anaconda with 8 boosters and the courier) a full bank gives full shields back or more. A 6B has 880mj in it, more than the base shields of any ship. That's the issue here, the absolutely ridiculous numbers they have, combined with their availability and spamability.

 

[ROSS-128]

Worth noting that's only on certain ships that you get 100% health back.

That's why I said "can", not "will". From what I understand an SCB gives you a fixed amount of HP per use based on size and rank, so how that works out percentage wise depends on which ship you stick it in. Which is kind of the opposite of a shield booster, where it gives you a certain percentage based on rank and how that works out in terms of HP depends on which ship you stick it in.

For a lot of ships though each SCB charge ends up being worth 2-4 shield boosters, and each SCB can carry multiple charges. So SCBs absolutely put shield boosters to shame. The good news for someone wanting to run them is they use different slot types so they're not mutually exclusive, the bad news for everyone else is the total HP you get out of doing that is absolutely bonkers.

 

[Philip Foster]

SCBs would be unbalanced if only one of you could use them. Is your ship unable to cary as many SCBs as your targets? Use the same ship they are using. Don't blame your tools, it's your choices that are open for criticism. Think about how you can deal with it, stop thinking about how FD should make your targets easier to take down.

 

[deathmagnet]

So if we nerf everything shields lets make sure we nerf the chaff too for earlier said reason...also we need to nerf the heat sinks because the stealth ships shouldn't be able to go silent and make me loose target. They certainly shouldn't be able to have more than 1 rack of 3...3 should be enough for them. I mean how fair is it that something as small as a DBX should be able to have to be target purely on sight with no computer assistance?

Once again. I feel these threads are started and defended by people that don't PvP and don't understand the full mechanics behind every PvP option. It is a group of players that only have an outside looking in perspective and want to control the way people enjoy playing.

 

[Aoife Thomas]

SCBs would be unbalanced if only one of you could use them. Is your ship unable to cary as many SCBs as your targets? Use the same ship they are using. Don't blame your tools, it's your choices that are open for criticism. Think about how you can deal with it, stop thinking about how FD should make your targets easier to take down.

This is the exact point the people crying nerf are making. We want the option to make a choice that is not between spam scb's or lose.

 

[Defacto]

So if we nerf everything shields lets make sure we nerf the chaff too for earlier said reason...also we need to nerf the heat sinks because the stealth ships shouldn't be able to go silent and make me loose target. They certainly shouldn't be able to have more than 1 rack of 3...3 should be enough for them. I mean how fair is it that something as small as a DBX should be able to have to be target purely on sight with no computer assistance?

Once again. I feel these threads are started and defended by people that don't PvP and don't understand the full mechanics behind every PvP option. It is a group of players that only have an outside looking in perspective and want to control the way people enjoy playing.

No, chaff and sinks are fine, as we concluded in the previous posts, using these items does not lend and advantage of the same strength and usability as the SCB's.

It's funny how you go on about how we clearly don't have PvP experience while that guy in the other thread about this goes on how ''PvP people'' like us are ruining the PvE, where you have to have SCB's that are godmode, apparently.
My conclusion is that we actually are Schrödinger's players, in a state of uncollapsed wave function, and that our playing style simply never is the same as the one we currently are discussing with.

 

[NE1]

we should just rename them to (Skill Counter Balance) SCB's make combat boring because no matter how long I fight a python in my non SCB cobra I know im nevere taking down that pythons shields even if I out manoeuvre them for 20mins

 

[deathmagnet]

This is the exact point the people crying nerf are making. We want the option to make a choice that is not between spam scb's or lose.

It's not spam shield cell banks or loose....

Double and triple chaff are effective tools

Full pips to engine in highly manuevarable ships to out turn your opponent is an effective tool

FA off is a great tool

Stealth ships are an awesome tool


SCB or die is false....

 

[Flavourless]

SCBs are the most gamey bodged on bits that E: D has outside of PP
But they are probably here to stay (because FD like them), and as they are required for PvP (everyone else carries and uses a lot), and I personally don't use magic potions in a reasonably "scientific" simulation, then I avoid PvP as much as possible.

 

[hanks01]

No on almost all ships (pretty much every one but an anaconda with 8 boosters and the courier) a full bank gives full shields back or more. A 6B has 880mj in it, more than the base shields of any ship. That's the issue here, the absolutely ridiculous numbers they have, combined with their availability and spamability.

I can confirm that's not the case for the Vulture and FDL. Both get about 1 shield ring back per SCB used. Only ones I've really noticed full health on are Asp, Clipper Python and Anaconda (not had enough combat experience against a dropship yet in pvp.)