I grind therefore I should be OP has never worked as an excuse in a successful MMO before. And it shouldn't work in this weird hybrid either. There should be both methods of grinding to achieve while also allowing a high skill cap to play a part. Right now SCB's effectively remove any option a skilled player has to outplay someone to get a kill. And please, lets not turn this into Open V Solo Mk:infinity.
SCBs boil my blood.
- Thread starter CMDR Hagglebeard
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I grind therefore I should be OP has never worked as an excuse in a successful MMO before. And it shouldn't work in this weird hybrid either. There should be both methods of grinding to achieve while also allowing a high skill cap to play a part. Right now SCB's effectively remove any option a skilled player has to outplay someone to get a kill. And please, lets not turn this into Open V Solo Mk:infinity.
SCB's are basically mulligans. Instead of screwing up and learning from your mistake, you screw up and get another crack at it, and another, and another, and you learn nothing other than how many SCB's it takes to kill such n' such target.
No no, not at all. As I say, I use Boosters not Banks as I like my cargo space and docking computer
)). But people should be able to play the game how they want. Whether they want to go about with however many sets of Banks. If you are going to go up against a hum a n player, you could always quickly check what they are equipping before you engage.As I have said in a previous post, players that do shove loads of Banks onto their ship are effectively relegating themselves to a certain play style anyway.
Well I'm certainly not advocating to remove them entirely, I just think their numbers, especially when stacked, are too damn high. The amount of HP you can pack in there needs to be toned down, or they need to be reworked into an item that provides a reasonable regeneration bonus. Though restricting the number that can be equipped, such as is done to shield generators, could also be a way to keep them from stacking too much.
I mean really, even after you burn though 7891 shield points or 8843 if you're using both boosters and SCBs, you'll still have 945 armor left with possibly 50% damage reduction. What do you need over 9000 HP for?
No, but if the game allows it and this being a supposed simulator, it should, then players should be free to do that at the cost of compromising other playstyles. At the end of the day, there is always the option not to engage and leg it in the opposite direction.
Not much except to be argumentative I am afraid.....the way I see it is those that are adamant they remain as they be are just not able to admit that they are overpowered. When someone needs to stack a particular module as a defense against others who stack that very module to me that is the definition of unbalanced and overpowered.
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Making a poll for this with the options to leave them alone or please rebalance would be telling of how the forum community at the least feels as a whole but even that would in the end accomplish nothing because in the end FD will just do what they please anyways.
I don't think this discussion is entirely pointless. Sure, a forum might not be the best medium to convince opponents that you are right (I think the only way to this reliably is talking face to face), but there's still a lot of constructive discussion and suggestions in this thread.
No, people should not be able to play how they want, I'm taking you too literally now, maybe, but just think about that statement for a moment: It's completely nuts.
Even a Sandbox has walls.
No no, not at all. As I say, I use Boosters not Banks as I like my cargo space and docking computer
As I have said in a previous post, players that do shove loads of Banks onto their ship are effectively relegating themselves to a certain play style anyway.
No, people should not be able to play how they want, I'm taking you too literally now, maybe, but just think about that statement for a moment: It's completely nuts.
Even a Sandbox has walls.
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This argument is a bit off because if you're smart, you can keep your ship in dock and upgrade it appropriately until it's ready...not just rely on SCB's...not that you did but there's a way to be safer.
It's a patience thing.
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I'm sure you'd find those who'd argue FD listen to the forum way too much given previous nerfs and buffs.
And I'm sure they do listen to what's going on in certain thread.
Really the questions I have could only be answered if I could get inside the FD hive mind and have a picture of what they see in terms of what they want to get out of combat.
For example, if they were to hear the argument made regarding SCB and the gulf it creates between PvP and PvEers so there is almost no middle ground, what would be their response?
Or what would be their idea of "ideal" combat conditions. What kind of pew pew pew are they picturing in their head when designing the mechanics? Do they imagine dozens of cells being spammed, or most people having one SCB for emergencies? Do they like shield potions as a concept, or was it added because they believe it was wanted by everyone?
I'm sure you'd find those who'd argue FD listen to the forum way too much given previous nerfs and buffs.
And I'm sure they do listen to what's going on in certain thread.
Really the questions I have could only be answered if I could get inside the FD hive mind and have a picture of what they see in terms of what they want to get out of combat.
For example, if they were to hear the argument made regarding SCB and the gulf it creates between PvP and PvEers so there is almost no middle ground, what would be their response?
Or what would be their idea of "ideal" combat conditions. What kind of pew pew pew are they picturing in their head when designing the mechanics? Do they imagine dozens of cells being spammed, or most people having one SCB for emergencies? Do they like shield potions as a concept, or was it added because they believe it was wanted by everyone?
It would be nice to have some kind of idea as to where they are taking things wouldn't it? lol
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I am of the opinion that they really should be reduced to 1 internal compartment so that way the bigger less agile ships could fit any ONE battery and smaller ships would obviously most have one smaller one (most likely used for emergency get out of Dodge situation). I do find it surprising the amount of people wanting them to stay as they are on one hand, but on the other having played a LOT of CCG's over the years not really that surprised at all as the crowd from that pastime also like to play the "flavor of the month" overpowered deck concepts also and moan endlessly if something gets rethought out for play balance getting nerfed or otherwise limited.
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IMO SCB are seen as OP because :
To summarize, my opinion is that the problem of SCB is not coming from SCB themselves, but is largely created by the convergence of a bunch of other issues that makes it look like a problem.
1 SCB per ships is a straight nerf to all large ships. Some people would like this, some not. My guess : if you nerf all large ships, all you get is a lot of vultures and not much else. Just sayin' before the vulture nerf thread pops up
- Using armor with buffs is not viable.
- There is no alternative to SCB as usefull combat internals in ships like combat python, clipper & Cie. If armor packages were usefull and there was modules such as amo racks and battle repair modules, this would change.
- Native shield recharge rate is so bad its the only way of charging them up on large ships. If it was faster (dependant on shield class and pips) it would aleviate this aspect of the problem.
- IMO, they are "okay" but should generate more heat. Making it an interesting problem to deal with for ships such as the python.
To summarize, my opinion is that the problem of SCB is not coming from SCB themselves, but is largely created by the convergence of a bunch of other issues that makes it look like a problem.
1 SCB per ships is a straight nerf to all large ships. Some people would like this, some not. My guess : if you nerf all large ships, all you get is a lot of vultures and not much else. Just sayin' before the vulture nerf thread pops up
I can see what you're getting at and I can feel that sentiment. I think the thing that makes me question their current form is that power draw is a major balancing factor, but because you can instantly switch off and on banks, you only need power the largest one and then you can make up for that by having your life support off while that particular bank is on giving you even more wiggle room.
If the power draw was nerfed (they pull a ton) but they had to be powered continuously to be readily available with a significant charge time for any that had been switched off I think it would go a long way to getting them reigned in. At least in some kind of scenario with that you would have to choose between having a bigger shield in the first place or being able to recharge a smaller shield multiple times which lends itself more to flight tactics and strategy than stare at each other and volley while popping SCBs.
Not defending high waking, but I'm not sure why its a problem. Seems pretty easy to deal with.
As for SCB, they drag out fights. Making it less a battle of skill and more a battle of money. (who can afford more SCB)
Just because you perceive high waking to be a larger issue to "ruining pvp", that doesn't refute the opinion that SCB's are overpowered.
I was happy with the core of combat before SCBs existed, I was happy before they were repeatedly nerfed, and I'm pretty happy now.
No matter what changes are made, I am going to shoot down a lot of people and very few are going to shoot me down. Many of these people will blame the game for not making me fight them how they want to be fought, for not catering to their preconceptions, or misconceptions, and for generally having a certain degree of depth that defy ill-considered attempts at pigeonholing.
No matter what changes are made, I am going to shoot down a lot of people and very few are going to shoot me down. Many of these people will blame the game for not making me fight them how they want to be fought, for not catering to their preconceptions, or misconceptions, and for generally having a certain degree of depth that defy ill-considered attempts at pigeonholing.
And then when the Power Plant changes are brought into effect, Military Grade Composites and Hull Reinforcement packages will OP I guess? There is nothing wrong with someone going around with a ton of SCBs in the same way there is nothing wrong with an Anaconda having a ton of Hardpoints and Utility points. SCBs help those that want more combat focused gameplay at the expense of being able to do exploration and trading as they take up internal compartments. Perhaps weaken the recharge a little, increase the power demand and the heating but don't Starr restricting the availability of them.
There is a reason that few use hull reinforcement and armor currently and that is the lack of systems protection, the hit to jump range, and the fact the SCB's drawbacks are negligible compared to hull reinforcement. I honestly don't see what they have to do with SCB's either other than the fact that nobody uses them because of the all mighty stacking of SCB's with very little drawbacks because only one of those actually needs to be powered at any one time