Umm, no. Please read through the opening post again. This is a Suggestion section where we PROPOSE improvement ideeas. And the ideea here is to incentivize more people to play in Open as it would benefit the overall experience.
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Umm, no. Please read through the opening post again. This is a Suggestion section where we PROPOSE improvement ideeas. And the ideea here is to incentivize more people to play in Open as it would benefit the overall experience.
They do? The fools! But notice that you've shifted your scenario: you're no longer envisioning finding miners in a mining location.
For CGs I agree.
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I'm ready to hear your counter-argument. Are you going to tell me Elite has all the necessary in-game tools and those that check third party tools are just idiots?
The people that play in PG/Solo. do so for a reason. Do you really believe a few % here or there will pull more than a few a players into open? You would need gold rush level bonuses for me to even consider mining in open. Even, then I would just do so outside the bubble where no one would bother me, fill my FC, then jump it to a best sell and start moving it in a G5 size 8 prizmatic Cutter with 6 shield boosters and some PD on the belly to deal with hatch breakers. ANd every time someone tries/succeeds in interdicting me, I block the second I escape them and never worry about them again. It's a change that accomplishes nothing.
Going to write this off as another, "needz moar victimz to pews pews ta deth" thread.
There is no need to incentivize anyone to play in open more then they already are.
Modes are here to offer options in filtering players out. Choices
That's the only reason modes are in, not to be incentivized or bypassed
Everyone is supposed to be able to blaze their own way without being penalized for that.
And as i already pointed out, playing in open/pg offers enough perks and bonuses for the social players.
No need for more.
Umm, what? To do that I would have to have read the first post already, which I have not, as I have been knocking round these forums for a bit now and I have seen this all before in multiple different configurations.
And I can, because of the nature of forums, voice my opinion, just the same as you. That happens to that the supposed extra risk of open mode is debatable and yet another matter of opinion. But more importantly, that penalising players for not playing a certain way is hardly living up to the games strap line of "Play your own way".
Incentivising players to play in open sounds great an all, but conveniently forgets about those players where that is not even a option.
cough consoles cough
So how exactly is that fair again?
And I haven't even addressed the benefit/detriment ratio to playing with other humans. Which again is debatable and once again a matter of opinion.
So play your own way (within the rules) and all that.
Wow, look at you huh? Case closed, solved it like a champ.
Except not really. There are serious flaws with your arguments. Mainly because it's based on gross presumptions.
1. "few % here or there" was obviously not even in discussion. The ideea behind the bonus is that it has to be significantly large to provide incentive. And it makes sense to be large because players are 10 times more dangerous than the npc that(maybe) interdict you
2. The fact that you choose to carry it in a G5 size 8 prismatic Cutter does under NO circumstance defeat my argument or the premise of this suggestion. It just means you are among the few that have a higher survival change but in no way guaranteed. I'll just pop in with a wingmate with FSD disruptor and you can say bye bye to your load.
3. The fact that you choose to "block" him in spite of playing in Open for the bonus says alot about you and puts your entire argument on it's head
Such a change will acomplish many things. Just not for people like you.
Yes, one of the accomplishments would be to penalize people not playing your way.
And your way of playing the game is in no way more entitled or just than anyone's else.
You haven't even read the opening post and you presume to know better? Not to mention not offering any counter-arguments whatsoever
You are more than welcome to play Solo as you always have. No one is penalizing Solo players. Obviously not reading the opening suggestion got you pretty confused.
I have yet to receive a rational counter-argument that holds water against my, and the opening poster's suggestion.
Please elaborate in GREAT detail how is this suggestion "penalizing" players?
I am still waiting for a valid counter-argument. So far I have to say I'm dissapointed.
You've heard it. The summary has been:-
You say that miners face increased risk in Open so you propose an incentive.
I reply that if they're sensible they don't face any significantly increased risk. It's too hard for would-be attackers to find them.
The likely outcome is that the incentive will just be free money for miners and the combat pilots will remain frustrated.
A bonus for one player is a penalty for the player NOT getting the bonus.
Haven't you read the forums?
People that could not get the super-FSD were getting miffed.
Same for the ones that had to work way harder that necessary wasting precious time
Plus many other voices that pointed out that selectively giving game affecting bonuses is bad for the game.
And i tend to agree with all above stances.
Now if your suggestion would had asked for giving a decal for the brave people taking the risks of playing in open... i could consider giving it some time and think about it.
...
...
...
Well, still not. Not even a decal.
It would be against the spirit of the game. Blazing your way. Forging your path.
But if you reward players for playing in Open you are penalising Solo players
It’s not perfect, but I suppose that’s what happens when you sellotape a single player game to an MMO. Can’t we just all get along with as it is, it seems like a fair compromise to me.
I'm sorry but what you say makes absolutely no sense. Want the bonus? Take on the risk. It's as simple as that. No one is nerfing solo prices. You are more than welcome to still play solo. Or join open and take the bonus.
"Blazing your way. Forging your path"? This has absolutely nothing to do with this suggestion or my argument. You are more than welcome to "blaze your path" in solo.
Well the best prices aren't shown in the 3rd-party tools - or not for very long - so figuring out where they're going to be without them (or at least, without going to the "sort by price" page) is going to work out better if you can. The in-game information isn't great for this but it is usable. But it doesn't really matter.
One of the current top sellers is Musgravite at around 1 million credits/tonne. If there's a 20% bonus for Open, then any of the places selling at >800k/tonne are better than that ... and there's about 25 of them. So you could make more money than the top one in Solo without any significant extra risk by picking the 15th on the list. (And even the top one on the list isn't even in the top 100 traffic systems today, so that might actually be safe too)
With Frontier adjusting the gem pricing so that any of about ten gems are profitable, in different systems, and many miners being happy to take a fair hit to sale price for the convenience of not having to make a 200LY round trip, there's not going to be that concentration ... and so it's just going to be free money for the most part.
CGs, sure. But CGs are about the only thing nowadays that gets people together enough - and no-one does CGs for pure profit in the first place because there's always a far more efficient way to make money, so a cash bonus to the CG-related payouts isn't really important: you could make CGs pay double if done in Open and they'd still be far less profitable than whatever the actual money meta is. The people doing CGs in Open already are doing it because they like that sort of thing, the people who aren't won't be attracted by slightly more money.
The current best money earner (hint: not mining at all) is so generic that it can basically be done anywhere in inhabited space. Borann and other incentives for thousands of people to be in one system which is also the best earner (and therefore be susceptible to this sort of incentive) was basically a one-off: every other best earner has had multiple options. And when you can earn 200M+ an hour, getting even 20% more only saves five hours on buying a Carrier, or thirty minutes on buying an Anaconda.
(Now, you might feel that even if it doesn't attract a single extra player to Open, the people already there deserve an extra bonus payout ... but then it's not an incentive at all, so why should Frontier bother?)
With a good parking spot you've got about 30 seconds between carrier and station to find, get behind and interdict. It's not happening very often in that case.
(Why someone who already has a carrier, in this hypothetical situation, is really caring whether they make 6 billion or 7 billion from their hold contents, I don't know - I've already said money is a terribly ineffective incentive for most players)
FSD disruptor has far too much cooldown to prevent high-waking, and a well-shielded Cutter isn't going to lose shields in the first minute of a fight no matter what's shooting at it (cascade torpedoes aside, but it can outrun those) - since it's only going between carrier and station most of the time, it could even have the Fast Boot mod instead of Increased Range.
If someone has switched from Solo to Open because of the incentive, then they're probably going to prepare to defend themselves, because if they can't it doesn't work out in their favour monetarily.
So you'd get the same people in Open you always do (some well-defended, some not, obviously you can kill those but the incentive doesn't help because you can kill them today) ... and a few extra people from Solo who would use every defensive technique in the book to be unkillable (which is easy to do with proper preparation).
You still dont get it that your bonus can be my penalty.
While we both payed money for the same game with the same rules, rules that you want to change to give your gameplay a tangible advantage.
And i'm being penalized for what? Playing within the game rules?
While someone that plays in Open and uses all the tricks in the book to avoid any reals risk, gets free money?
But if you reward players for playing in Open you are penalising Solo players
I'm sorry but no. Let me tell you something. If I would go in here and cry requesting that combat missions should give all material types instead of just the three (focus crystals, firmware, biotech, etc etc.) because "forging my path for me" means combat because that is what I like, instead of the BORING AND TEDIOUS GRIND that is Signal Sources and shooting rocks with SRV on planet, guess what? Some special people here would tell me that "no one is forcing you to grind materials, just do what you like".
But you see.....I CAN'T do what I like. Because that would mean not having the ship and engineering build I want. Because what I like is combat and I hate mining and grinding materials.
So you see, the same I say to you. No one is forcing you to play Open. You can stay in solo. And the difference between you and me is my suggestion does not prohibit you from doing the activities that you like(it does indeed mean you won't get as much credits) but it does not stop you from doing an activity.
No, forging your own path means literally forging YOUR own path (within the game rules) not a path decided by a small subset of players.
And until now, FD stayed true to their ethos of not providing artificial advantages to a mode or another.
Sure, social play get the bonuses i mentioned, but they are there because of social cooperative play and are available in both modes that support direct social playing (PG and Open). Those bonuses are not awarded for risks but to encourage cooperative play.
And even those bonuses can be exploited, but guess FD chose to allow it due to their nurturing stance towards their player base (and for tech reasons too most probably
)I mean, completing a 50 millions credits wing massacre mission, then inviting a noob to join your wing and share that mission - it is not unheard of.
And that's a free 50 millions bonus for the noob.
What more incentive for the social play you want?
But I can't forge my own path, can I? Again the "path" that you speak of is available to you in solo. No one is forcing you to play Open for bonus. Oh but I guess you will be forced to because you want more money yeah? Just like I am forced to have "quality gameplay" to get Materials for Engineers.
Can't help but notice you missed the point completely. More people will be in Open for the prospect of a better reward.
They are well defended? So what? We'll have a good time.
They are not well defended? So what? We'll have a good time.
They get away, they die, it matters not. The whole point is to bring more players to Open. They die? Well, like it was also said in this thread, you have busy moments you have quiet moments. It's not like risk will be constant and inevitable.
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