Sensors - Can they make a difference to SR, AI and Smuggling?

shadragon

shadragon
Edit: Sandro, feel free to nit pick my logic. :D

There was another "better sensors give better gimbal / turret lock-on" thread yesterday (They don't.) However, it got me thinking about the various sensor grades. Today, range is the only real advantage to having the A, B and C sensor classes. When I saw a second thread on silent running I thought the two might go together nicely.

Silent running or SR (in its present state) will not allow another player to lock onto you as long as SR is engaged. The AI has no such restriction and smugglers trying to get past security can be scanned. Obviously, if SR worked on NPC's the same way as players, smuggling would become a breeze and impossible to stop or detect. The smuggler would be a ghost, never seen.

By giving sensors a minimum distance to detect SR ships, you keep the danger of smuggling and give sensors a purpose again. Better classes of sensors increase the minimum detection range which has obvious advantages. This would only be a few hundred meters (See chart below) and get slightly longer range with better grades of sensors.

This does several things. It keeps SR as a viable defense against gimbals / turrets / scans unless the enemy closes to very close range. It will also mean the more agile player can avoid a lock / scan by flying skill. AI would use the same game mechanic so security at stations can be outflown as well. Better sensors mean more power consumption so the player has to take this into account as well.

I should note that the chance of a lock-on at 0 degrees of heat should be 0. It is very difficult to maintain 0 degrees, even if spamming heat sinks so this shouldn't make a huge impact and gives a player a way to break weapons lock or a security scan temporarily. Once temps rise over 0 they can lock back on, but it might be enough to get clear. The AI NPC or security should respond to a sighting of a ship in SR or when heat sinks appear out of nowhere.

I think this would make SR useful again without making it a cloak of invulnerability while maintaining the core elements of game play for both PC and NPC.

I made up an example chart using an Asp Explorer sensors. Tried to embed the picture, but can't for some reason. Here's the link. Comments welcome.

http://imgur.com/25DA4d9
 
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Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Raile said:
Name a game where the npc's don't cheat.
Click to expand...

Chess. <--- GAH! ninjaed
-----------------
Dear OP are you referring to SR with hardpoints deployed or retracted, these are two different pair of shoes.

What i see in the current version of the game is the following, please correct me if outdated/wrong:

HP deployed:
Makes you automatically a contact on scanners (the fuzzy triangle)
if you get closer you are a full contact, reducing gimbal-arc of fire
distance to become a full contact is not heat level based, just fix distance

HP retracted:
no contact when outside a certain range
fuzzy contact when closing in
ful contact below 600 metres

both:
Heatsinks automatically revert a ship of any SR level (even SR off) into a fuzzy contact,
for a short duration close to ejecting the Heatsink
 
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geoffrey.hdt

geoffrey.hdt
shadragon said:
Good news on both counts. Let's hope the fix will be in 2.1.
Click to expand...
Wait...wait...

From Sandro:
"ships can be fitted with more powerful sensors that increase the distance that they can detect you, and that can push the auto-resolve distance out to around five hundred metres or more (good sensors are the silent runner's worst nightmare)."
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68069&page=5&p=1158586&viewfull=1#post1158586

He is not talking about 2.1, but the current state of the game.
And I have been missing this the whole time??! Oh well, at least I know now :)
 
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Julio Montega

Julio Montega
To be frank 500 metres is not the engagement distance most people fight,
so as long as the silent runner keeps distance he is not selectable (around 800metres with a rated sensors).
The current game mechanic doesn't factor in the internal heat as being
relevant to the auto-resolve range, which is really bad, as a SRer can cook at 150% without impacting
his signal...
That is my experience however.
 
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Ignition

I
AI cheats because of bad design.

If you don't want to make smuggling too easy you can add randomly (depending in the security of the system) in each station lasers in the door to detect ships passing by and radars to detect ships at distance. Then add counter meassures to this new systems and you have a more complete smuggling system without making the AI cheat seeing everything without their scanners.

You can also add police checkpoints where police will scan the cargo of any ship, but you can bypass this using SR.

The problem here it seems that the only one not using their imagination is FD.
 

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Ignition said:
So? If you don't want you don't go. I was talking about checkpoints in the same instance as the station.
Click to expand...

Well they have police wings patrolling the station and trying to scan you,
that is the station checkpoint you spoke of.

I could however imagine real checkpoints at the station area,
like we had in Afghanistan, being tied to the system state.
A system that is revolting might require more security
reinforcing their controls, resulting in ships cordoning off
station entry and only let checked ships go past.

But how would you SR around it,
without being totally suspicious
and having the station eliminate you for bypassing?
 
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goemon

goemon
Julio Montega said:
To be frank 500 metres is not the engagement distance most people fight,
so as long as the silent runner keeps distance he is not selectable (around 800metres with a rated sensors).
The current game mechanic doesn't factor in the internal heat as being
relevant to the auto-resolve range, which is really bad, as a SRer can cook at 150% without impacting
his signal...
That is my experience however.
Click to expand...

you get resolved as soon as you hit someone, during all time you hit him. you can be locked on while you fire.
 

Ignition

I
Julio Montega said:
Well they have police wings patrolling the station and trying to scan you,
that is the station checkpoint you spoke of.

I could however imagine real checkpoints at the station area,
like we had in Afghanistan, being tied to the system state.
A system that is revolting might require more security
reinforcing their controls, resulting in ships cordoning off
station entry and only let checked ships go past.

But how would you SR around it,
without being totally suspicious
and having the station eliminate you for bypassing?
Click to expand...

read what I posted above.


Its a sci fi game, you don't need to make it boring, think about hacking the systems of the station (this could go well with multicrew and solo) and falsify the credentials of the ship making it look like another ship.

The possibilities are endless.

But yeah I need to use my imagination to play....
 
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Julio Montega

Julio Montega
Ignition said:
read what I posted above.


Its a sci fi game, you don't need to make it boring, think about hacking the systems of the station (this could go well with multicrew and solo) and falsify the credentials of the ship making it look like another ship.

The possibilities are endless.

But yeah I need to use my imagination to play....
Click to expand...

Read it, your suggestion of laser grids is no checkpoint to me,
that is a very "oceans 11"esque idea.
I'm not for random laser scans.
Why wouldn't at least the ship type and reg-number be instantly revealed when you pass the
air-shield of the station?

Hacking... now that is something i have been suggesting and have seen being suggested a lot.
IFF hacking definitely would add spice to the show.
 
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