Just disable one of your power cell bank in modules menu.
Enable then you use all your cell's in first module.
Enable then you use all your cell's in first module.
Shield Cells OP
- Thread starter Miimis Maks
- Start date
Piracy against other CMDRs is impossible because of the tiny FSD cooldown, not because of SCBs. If you submit to an interdiction, there is no penalty to this cooldown. Thus, I submit to every interdiction, and can always escape.
Mines really aren't that good, they are too slow, and if you are getting hit by them, you are either following way too closely, or you don't know how to use lateral/vertical thrust.
More agressive AI would definitely solve this.
Large AI ships almost never bring their weapons to bear simultaneously at the correct range. I can cut through a fresh 4 pip A4 shields on a Cobra with four beam fixed lasers on my Viper in about two seconds. If the shields are weaker than this, I can cut through them while an SCB is being used.
Any Asp, Python, or Aanaconda should be able to bring enough lasers to bear to make SCBs irrelevant on any ship smaller than an Asp....but the AI doesn't really know what to do.
I do agree with this, and this is the argument I made against them back in Beta 2 before they were rebalanced (nerfed). Back then a single of the weakest shield cell would fill an A3 shield about twice over, and would recharge them so fast that most weapons couldn't damage the shields half as fast as they were being restored.
I'm much less bothered by their current implementation, because they can be defeated and they do have enough of a trade off where (at least in PvP) it's often not wise to just carry as many as possible.
If the question is whether the game could do fine without them, then the answer is yes. Nerfing them further doesn't solve anything, as they would just become dead weight that very few would have reason to ever mount. So, I'm of the opinion that they should either be left at their current effectiveness, or be removed entirely.
SCBs are a supplement to a good shield gen, not a replacement for one.
No they don't. In fact they make it more useful.
A lot of the CMDRs I've destroyed in the past has SCBs, but didn't have time to use them...which is the entire point of running the weapons I normally run.
I consider putting myself into a position where I can even be fired upon to be a failure on my part (it certainly happens, but trying to "tank" anything with a fighter is tactical incompetence), and I rarely need to use SCBs in my preferred Viper.
Also, Anaconda are prohibitively expensive for almost anyone, and most pilots with a baseline Anaconda would be in serious trouble against a well upgraded Viper or Cobra...SCBs or not.
This is completely false.
I'm a pretty good pilot, and I have used Cobra and Vipers to kill much better pilots in Eagles with relative ease. The Viper for example can fly backwards and at an angle (full reverse + full lateral + full vertical means you are going away from whatever is in front of your guns at over 300 m/s) faster than the Eagle can fly forward and the Cobra can pitch almost as fast. Both ships are way faster than the Eagle and can dictate encounter distance. The Eagle cannot follow if the opponent disengages. The Eagle is also very fragile and has much weaker weapons than the Cobra or Viper.
Any pilot who does not utilize the advantages of their faster, more powerful, ship when fighting an Eagle, and just tries to get in close and outmaneuver it at point blank range, is quite simply a moron.
Actually, I am so confident of the inferiority of the Eagle, that I will gladly fight any Eagle pilot in the game. Just let me know when and where.
They aren't remotely this.
This is how long it takes to drop a full A3 shield on a Viper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DsWB0RcXyS4#t=245
Here is a Cobra, I'm not sure exactly what shield gen he's using, but he does have SCBs (and one of my big beam lasers is disabled):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iyANokp2hJA#t=447 - he uses at least two SCB charges, both too late.
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Do you care to explain why they are fair? I get that I was exaggerating, but they are universally good without much of any downside, at least compared to the other tools available.
Are you using 2 c2 beams or 4 c1? Well either way, you're using a very high damage (at least against shields) loadout. It's a loadout that is designed to strip shields and has some pretty high costs, power draw, cost to buy, drains wpn capacity quick, and doesn't do that much damage against hull.
If this is why you think it's fair, it's not a good example. really strong weapons can melt shields instantly thus negating cells, railguns, missiles, and plasma accelerators but they all have huge costs relative to their power, shield cells do not.
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They are fair because anyone can take them and they do have alternatives (I could have fit a lot more on my ship, but put a class 3 fuel scoop and an AFM unit in there instead). I do agree that they have more upsides than downsides, but I'm not convinced they are better than other tools available...maybe among pure combat tools that go in the slots they occupy, but not as a whole.
I do use them. I find an A1 SCB unit comforting to have in a pinch, but anything bigger than that and I feel I'm better off without it's weight. My combat style emphasizes maneuverability and every ton counts on a Viper.
Two C2 and two C1. One of the C2s is disabled in the second video as I forgot to turn it back on after repairing it with an AFM unit.
And yes, it was specifically selected to make SCB's less relevant. Hull damage is bad, but hulls don't grow back. Power is not a huge issue with proper module prioritization, and 500k of weapons on a 4 million credit ship is not a huge deal.
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I agree. The pythons and anacondas usually try to stay at max range, which does make it harder to hit them, but nothing like the difficulties they have in hitting a smaller target.
My real issue with scb are their use on larger ships when fighting smaller ships. Smaller ships don't have a high enough sustained damage output to strip their shields before a shield cell could be activated. Larger ship can also more easily carry more charges for the shield cells.
One argument may be that an anaconda costs 1000 times more than a viper, so its unfair that a viper might destroy one. SCB address this unfairness. If this is the official stance from ED I've misjudged this game. I'm wasting my time using a viper, I should buy a type6, grind money until I can buy a python. So should everyone else.
I'll gladly fight any player in an eagle, and I would say Morbad is a much better pilot than myself. The eagle can take 0 damage and is slower. I'd even beat it up close where it can use its Superior pitch rate.
I'm guessing he had 0 pips in sys, I'd be interested to see what would happen if he has 2 pips in sys and popped a scb when you start shooting at him. Buy some reflective armour if you are fighting Morbad
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Forget the costs for a moment, if this is what you need to counteract scb, and most / all players will have scb, then aren't the other weapons useless?
Yes, taking out larger ships that use SCBs correctly would be even more of a chore. I'm not sure if this a bad thing or not. It's not always reasonable to expect that one can pit a PT boat against a frigate and come out on top.
Grouping up would also be a viable counter. Two decked out Vipers is still about 2% of the price of a well-equipped Python.
Guys you want balance? I tell you what balance is.
Choose to install the shield cell and you get the benefit. Choose to not install and you get different but equal benefit.
Equal to... mass. 1.5t mass is worth of ~4% shield charge, but even this can be crucial in pvp.
The same for chaff/heatsink.
0.4s of chaff spray, 5% of dispersed heat.
This is MMO-like design.
Or you want the MMO desing, or you want "must have" shield cell/chaff/HS/whatever.
I did not trying to say that almost invulnerable shields is fine, no.
Choose to install the shield cell and you get the benefit. Choose to not install and you get different but equal benefit.
Equal to... mass. 1.5t mass is worth of ~4% shield charge, but even this can be crucial in pvp.
The same for chaff/heatsink.
0.4s of chaff spray, 5% of dispersed heat.
This is MMO-like design.
Or you want the MMO desing, or you want "must have" shield cell/chaff/HS/whatever.
I did not trying to say that almost invulnerable shields is fine, no.
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Most people tend to say that about single-use items, then one day they die wishing that they'd bought one. Things like these should be a contingency option, something you can pull out of your hat when you're caught with your pants down; not must-have items that become integral to nearly every battle you take part in. Presently these shield cells are analogous to health potions in RPGs, and I'm disappointed that FD have invited such a mentality into ED.
I would have wished for that here are only X-Wing, Wing-Commander and Elite Player instead we have all the wieners from the MMO that someting is OP
GUYS GO Back to EVE or WOW or wahtever
btw giving me bad rep is just funny as long i Speak my Mind! so do it i dont care about rep at all!!
GUYS GO Back to EVE or WOW or wahtever
btw giving me bad rep is just funny as long i Speak my Mind! so do it i dont care about rep at all!!
If anything, this kind of post reminds me of most MMO forums.
Instead of a well thought-out argument, with examples (that both the pro and anti-shield cell side are capable of producing in this discussion), you instead attack people and tell them to ''go back'' to whatever game you think is an evil MMO.
These posts are the kind of stuff that degrades discussions.
But hey, at least you bumped the thread up to first page.
Shield cell banks take up room and power from the power plant. They also do not give an instant recharge to shields it takes time to recharge shields when using a cell. I fought against a player in a Viper and I had shield cells they made me leave the field after they took my shields down in one pass. The cells never helped me there due to the nature of his pass by as he rammed me head on. http://youtu.be/HT_iU9btPN0?t=6m47s
So you see he had no shield cells and still beat me in a 1v1 combat. I consider ramming to be a tactic used by the desperate, but tip my hat to the commander who beat me.
If shield cells were over powered like some here say then I should of won that fight by popping cells one after the other. I only have 5 max due to power usage and room on my ship as I like to have a cargo hold for courier missions as well.
So you see he had no shield cells and still beat me in a 1v1 combat. I consider ramming to be a tactic used by the desperate, but tip my hat to the commander who beat me.
If shield cells were over powered like some here say then I should of won that fight by popping cells one after the other. I only have 5 max due to power usage and room on my ship as I like to have a cargo hold for courier missions as well.
I defeated an Anaconda head-on with my average equipped Cobra
I dfeated a better player in a similarly equipped Cobra because I had shield cells and he didn't.
The OP made osme videos showing how ridicilous shield cells are.
It's nice that you can give other examples of when people with shield cells do get defeated, but I don't think this can be used to prove that shield cells are not bad (or unbalanced, or OP, or whatever you want to call it).
Well said thats the reason there not OP!
I would have expected him to be destroyed on impact yet it appears he took almost no damage. This game is weird sometimes.
I fought a player yesterday, I wish i had a video of it.
The fight was fairly even and in the end he had more shield cells than me. I'm not complaining about that, that would be like saying he had and extra gun, I can put more shield cells on my ship if I want to, but what it did was prolong the fight.
It didn't feel like anything was added to the quality of the dogfight, just a feeling of futility. I have plenty of money for insurance so wasn't interested in running, but could have at any time I wanted to.
Other than prolong the fight, they make it near impossible to kill someone who wants to just run away.
The fight was fairly even and in the end he had more shield cells than me. I'm not complaining about that, that would be like saying he had and extra gun, I can put more shield cells on my ship if I want to, but what it did was prolong the fight.
It didn't feel like anything was added to the quality of the dogfight, just a feeling of futility. I have plenty of money for insurance so wasn't interested in running, but could have at any time I wanted to.
Other than prolong the fight, they make it near impossible to kill someone who wants to just run away.
I for one find them rather dull. Not op, but some fights take long enough as it is. I've given up a couple of time and flown off out of boredom. You would have to have a huge bounty for it to be worth the time taking you down.
Plus it ruins wolf pack/wing tactics if an opponent can choose to ignore you when you are hitting them with beam lasers, not even try to dodge, and focus on one shield less target.
I only bring that up as I just spent two minutes flying in a straight line behind an enemy clipper. It felt rather unsatisfying.
Plus it ruins wolf pack/wing tactics if an opponent can choose to ignore you when you are hitting them with beam lasers, not even try to dodge, and focus on one shield less target.
I only bring that up as I just spent two minutes flying in a straight line behind an enemy clipper. It felt rather unsatisfying.
If you don't like it, don't use it. A 30 sec cooldown will be nice but there is no need to complain. If it draws away from your fun in combat then don't use it.