Shielded FSD

[DemiserofD]

Right now, the Shield FSD effect is basically never used. The problem is that its effect isn't worth sacrificing jump range, even with the reduced thermal load. A Gunship, for example, goes from 22ly with long range, to 17ly with reinforced, which can often mean taking a whole series of jumps rather than one or two. Then you run out of fuel along the way, requiring a fuel scoop, which ends up taking away the benefits of having a shielded FSD in the first place!

So, idea. What if Shielded FSDs got a +12% bonus to their FSD Injections?

That would mean that a long range FSD Gunship with Premium FSD injection would jump 44ly, and a Reinforced FSD Gunship with a premium FSD injection would jump...44ly.

Basically, they could jump where they need to go in a pinch, but for longer voyages, long-range would still be king.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Why do you care about jump range with shielded? The point of shielded is to provide additional HP to it if you lose your shields so you can jump.

Or do you find yourself doing combat in a system where there are no other systems within a few LY? I very much doubt it.

If you need extra jump range because you're using a long range trader then just put increased range on, you don't need the shielding effect. Well, unless you are really rubbish and find yourself getting your shields shot out by NPCs when doing trade runs or regularly fail to beat interdictions (LOL)

 

[Vardaugas]

If you would give it increased effect from injections and neutron stars it could make shielded FSD a valid choice for using the neutron highway to a certain destination while being less effective for more random exploration.

 

[DemiserofD]

Why do you care about jump range with shielded? The point of shielded is to provide additional HP to it if you lose your shields so you can jump.

Or do you find yourself doing combat in a system where there are no other systems within a few LY? I very much doubt it.

If you need extra jump range because you're using a long range trader then just put increased range on, you don't need the shielding effect. Well, unless you are really rubbish and find yourself getting your shields shot out by NPCs when doing trade runs or regularly fail to beat interdictions (LOL)

Well, one reason would be for players with a combat ship, but who don't yet own a fleet carrier. Getting around the bubble with a ship like that can be very painful, since losing ~33% of your jump range doesn't just make you take 33% more jumps, it often means taking 2x, 3x, or even 4x more jumps, due to gaps you can't jump over.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, one reason would be for players with a combat ship, but who don't yet own a fleet carrier. Getting around the bubble with a ship like that can be very painful, since losing ~33% of your jump range doesn't just make you take 33% more jumps, it often means taking 2x, 3x, or even 4x more jumps, due to gaps you can't jump over.

You're not losing range, you're just not gaining it. And travelling any distance in a combat ship is a pain, so best in those cases to use your taxi ship and transfer it after.

If you really want, slap a guardian FSD booster in.

 

[DemiserofD]

You're not losing range, you're just not gaining it. And travelling any distance in a combat ship is a pain, so best in those cases to use your taxi ship and transfer it after.

If you really want, slap a guardian FSD booster in.

Well, everything's a matter of comparison.

But either way, you don't have the range. Slapping a FSD booster faces the same problem; you end up gaining range, but sacrificing the hull or module booster that would have gone there otherwise, and all things being equal, you're probably better off with a module reinforcement and a long range FSD than a booster and a reinforced FSD.

On a C5 fsd, for example, you'd get 350 module integrity for the module reinforcement, vs just 150 from Reinforced.

Reinforced just isn't used very commonly right now, and I think this would be a neat way to make it more viable without making it the defacto option.

 

[Jmanis]

You're not losing range, you're just not gaining it. And travelling any distance in a combat ship is a pain, so best in those cases to use your taxi ship and transfer it after.

If you really want, slap a guardian FSD booster in.

God i miss penetrator builds and hate ship transfers... just randomly.

 

[RBHM Spoons]

Besides the integrity boost (further bolstered by MRPs)

You do realise you are effectively making the FSD heavier. (Albeit a few extra light years)

The only real threat is if you're PPed first or your thrusters are shot out.

I ran a FGS with a B rated armoured double braced plant, b rated armoured double braced thrusters and a A rated shielded double braced FSD. (Yes I'm an absolute mad man) in PvP. (I refuse point blank to fly meta, relying on meta to win to me is hollow, no sense of achievement)

The ship would die before any of the core internals were popped in PvP. From a PVE perspective, damn she can take HELLA punishment.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, everything's a matter of comparison.

But either way, you don't have the range. Slapping a FSD booster faces the same problem; you end up gaining range, but sacrificing the hull or module booster that would have gone there otherwise, and all things being equal, you're probably better off with a module reinforcement and a long range FSD than a booster and a reinforced FSD.

On a C5 fsd, for example, you'd get 350 module integrity for the module reinforcement, vs just 150 from Reinforced.

Reinforced just isn't used very commonly right now, and I think this would be a neat way to make it more viable without making it the defacto option.

My, how did people handle it before engineering? Most of my combat ships don't have engineered FSDs at all.

 

[DemiserofD]

My, how did people handle it before engineering? Most of my combat ships don't have engineered FSDs at all.

With difficulty. I can't imagine it was very much fun, spending 500 jumps just to get across the bubble.

That said, I'm speaking more to the relative balance of the different engineering effects. Shielded is already a fairly niche engineering effect; It's only real utility is in situations where you are planning to fight, planning to lose your shields, But for some reason care about dying.

That's a very limited window, and in the current Version of the game, the relative benefits afforded simply do not match the downsides.

My main goal is just making the different engineering affects more relatively equal. I'm sure there are other ways to go about this, but I thought this would be a cool way to do it.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

With difficulty. I can't imagine it was very much fun, spending 500 jumps just to get across the bubble.

Before engineering there was less need to repeatedly cross the bubble, though. One cluster of systems was as good as another for most things.

Now engineering and FCs make all bubble systems adjacent, so one cluster of systems is again as good as another.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

With difficulty. I can't imagine it was very much fun, spending 500 jumps just to get across the bubble.

That said, I'm speaking more to the relative balance of the different engineering effects. Shielded is already a fairly niche engineering effect; It's only real utility is in situations where you are planning to fight, planning to lose your shields, But for some reason care about dying.

That's a very limited window, and in the current Version of the game, the relative benefits afforded simply do not match the downsides.

My main goal is just making the different engineering affects more relatively equal. I'm sure there are other ways to go about this, but I thought this would be a cool way to do it.

What idiot would spend 500 jumps getting across the bubble? I hope you didn't have a 1 LY drive.

Basically you're manufacturing an unrealistic situation and then looking for a solution for it that isn't needed.

You want long range, engineer long range. You want integrity, engineer integrity.

Or shall we find reasons to make every modification be useful in multiple ways? This has been the problem with engineering from the start. Huge power creep. It should have been significant trade offs. One thing goes up, another goes significantly down. As it is, you get one thing getting a good boost and a bit of a downside that rarely needs consideration.

So, if you want shielded to also increase range, what significant negative do you want in return? Massive power draw? Much higher weight (well, that would counter the extra jump range), or maybe insane heat generation?

 

[Northpin]

If Antything, the only thing i would do is to offer a better integrity for B-rated modules and a slightly better integrity bonus to Shielded blueprint.

However, i do think they're quite ok-ish at the moment

 

[Morbad]

All of my CMDR's combat ships (which are mostly hybrid vessels with a lot of hull) use shielded FSDs.

My CMDR's shieldless trade setups (which have a lot of hull because hull is a more efficient way to get protection when cargo capacity is a factor, at least for anything that isn't a Cutter) use shielded FSDs, plus a guardian FSD booster.

There is plenty enough niche already.

 

[Jmanis]

What idiot would spend 500 jumps getting across the bubble? I hope you didn't have a 1 LY drive.

Basically you're manufacturing an unrealistic situation and then looking for a solution for it that isn't needed.

You want long range, engineer long range. You want integrity, engineer integrity.

Or shall we find reasons to make every modification be useful in multiple ways? This has been the problem with engineering from the start. Huge power creep. It should have been significant trade offs. One thing goes up, another goes significantly down. As it is, you get one thing getting a good boost and a bit of a downside that rarely needs consideration.

So, if you want shielded to also increase range, what significant negative do you want in return? Massive power draw? Much higher weight (well, that would counter the extra jump range), or maybe insane heat generation?

This is why I still rue the day they added ship transfers.

It made mobility part of the equation when outfitting your ship. Do you go with an all-tank, all-armoured monstrosity with an 8LY range, only good for immediate area operations? Or do you trim the fat and squeeze out a 20-30Ly build because for some reason you need to travel across the bubble. It actually wrapped CG participation around some logistical issues of that nature, which tbh was pretty great.

It gave exploitation of long-range activities a measure of consideration, not just a "Jump in my taxi, pay a transfer fee because credits are meaningless and guh I need to wait 15m WAI CAN'T XFERS B INSTNT FD!?!?"

Without going into some history though, too many people are dissatisfied with anything but optimum for every activity in the game, and tbh, it's a toxic situation for future development and interesting, innovative activity ideas. There's room in any Corvette fit to lose some armour, shield, engineer a half-decent range and still be completely viable and reasonable for combat activities. But why would you, when you can just hit that transfer button and get nothing but optimum combat and armour. It's pretty inane.

 

[DemiserofD]

What idiot would spend 500 jumps getting across the bubble? I hope you didn't have a 1 LY drive.

Basically you're manufacturing an unrealistic situation and then looking for a solution for it that isn't needed.

You want long range, engineer long range. You want integrity, engineer integrity.

Or shall we find reasons to make every modification be useful in multiple ways? This has been the problem with engineering from the start. Huge power creep. It should have been significant trade offs. One thing goes up, another goes significantly down. As it is, you get one thing getting a good boost and a bit of a downside that rarely needs consideration.

So, if you want shielded to also increase range, what significant negative do you want in return? Massive power draw? Much higher weight (well, that would counter the extra jump range), or maybe insane heat generation?

My point being, having a short-range FSD can often result in significant bypasses, increasing the total length of the journey, beyond what you may expect. Just recently, a trip that I expected to take 2 jumps instead took six, due to the bypass I needed to take.

Even with this change, these FSDs would not have the same total jump range as standard FSDs; only while using FSD boosts would they become roughly equivalent, and that significantly limits their mobility. Because of that, no additional downsides would be needed. Personally, I'd still heavily debate whether or not using one would be worth it, due to the reasons I posted above. Most of the time, a shielded FSD just isn't worth it, since if you're doing pve, it's never necessary, and if you're doing pvp, you don't particularly care if you die or not.

All that said, I love your proposal to make all modifications useful in different ways. Many engineering effects are already useful in a variety of ways; it's the ones that are only useful in singular ways that tend to fall behind and become irrelevant by comparison. It's not power creep to buff unused effects up to par!

 

[DemiserofD]

Before engineering there was less need to repeatedly cross the bubble, though. One cluster of systems was as good as another for most things.

Now engineering and FCs make all bubble systems adjacent, so one cluster of systems is again as good as another.

Honestly, one could say the same even now. Unless you're going for engineering, there's little reason to travel anywhere, which is something of a self-fulfilling problem. One system is basically as good as another for most purposes.

Still, players do like to travel, and it's important players have the capability to do so in a non-frustrating manner.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It's not power creep to buff unused effects up to par!

You've declared nobody uses that effect?

 

[Rebel Yell]

Most of my PvP not-disposable ships have shielded FSD.

 

[Northpin]

Still, players do like to travel, and it's important players have the capability to do so in a non-frustrating manner.

When the players travel, they do use Increased Range FSD
When they fight, they're usually using Fast Boot FSD (or undersized FSDs to lighten the ships) on Shield Tanks or Shielded on Ships that are expected to lose shields and still fight.

Ship transfers and Carriers make this even more obvious since people are do not really need to do Travelling in their Combat ships.