PvP Shieldless FAS Experts: How Do You Deal With Missiles?

[UnhappyDev]

So, I've parked the FDL for a while and have made the move to a hull-tanked shieldless FAS. I've had a couple of fights and have done ok...but I've not faced anyone with missiles yet. It's going to happen though. Is there any counter to missiles in a hull tanked FAS?

I'm guessing that stacked packhounds have no answer except high wake (TrueSilver did a thread on this a while back).

But what about counters to regular missiles or a single packhound launcher? Can PDs cope with these? Or is it a lost cause?

 

[Mohrgan]

The threat from Missiles is the splash damage to your externals. Those internals can only be protected by shields or MRP's. MRP's have something of a soft cap to their effectiveness. They are not 100% effective and they can be destroyed as well. (Some players fit an AMFU to repair their MRP and other bits as they go.) A more active defense to missiles comes from the Point Defense, and ECM modules. PD will shoot at incoming missiles, while the ECM will temporarily confuse a guided missile's target lock.

Success is going to require MRP's, active defenses, and your use of the FAS's agility.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Dont fight with someone with missiles in a 1 v 1, if its a gank just run.
The click to win auto aiming seakers/hounds are a cancer in a proper fight, anyone who is using them against a hull tank is a scrub.
Luckily, very few use them in fights.

What helps a bit is target breakers / silent running to restart their aiming sequence.

 

[UnhappyDev]

A more active defense to missiles comes from the Point Defense, and ECM modules. PD will shoot at incoming missiles, while the ECM will temporarily confuse a guided missile's target lock.

Can an ECM be effective against missiles, even when combined with other defenses? It has a cooldown that seems to make it useless against a sustained missile barrage.

What helps a bit is target breakers / silent running to restart their aiming sequence.

Pulsing SR on/off is an interesting idea. Difficult to keep up over a whole fight though.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Can an ECM be effective against missiles, even when combined with other defenses? It has a cooldown that seems to make it useless against a sustained missile barrage.




Pulsing SR on/off is an interesting idea. Difficult to keep up over a whole fight though.

Exactly, instead of focusing on teh fight all you are doing is triggering various defense points, maneuvering etc while the other guy just holds the fire button while flying backwards, F that, git gud

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I fly around in silent running most of the time. 3 high cap heat sinks.

I use modded B thrusters.

One module reinforcement package, those things really help.

TLB plasma accelerators.



Most people don't make use of Silent running as much as they could it seems. TLB is fine if you never let up, but if you miss once, it takes less than a second to 'select next hostile target' and they have a lock on you again.

. The seeker rack I keep on my Conda for fighters/small targets also works fantastic on shieldless stuff. You won't kill them, but they won't be able to shoot you without guns.

The sturdy mount plasmas on my FAS run a little hot, but they don't break so easily when I come up against missiles.

 

[UnhappyDev]

I fly around in silent running most of the time. 3 high cap heat sinks.

I use modded B thrusters.

Thanks for the info. I like the idea of SR but I've jumped on the long range phased-plasma bandwagon. I would burn through my heatsinks in a couple of minutes!

Out of interest, what sort of boost do you get from B rated thrusters (assuming G5 DDs)?

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I Have Drive strengthening on mine. I honestly couldn't tell you off the top of my head.

Top speed wasn't a priority with mine, I got tired of losing thrusters and stuff and went full durability.

It still maneuvers just fine, the FAS is already agile. Boosting fast is nice, but not absolutely necessary when you're quick enough and have loads of armor.

 

[StiTch]

1) TLBs in PvP
2) Reactive bulkheads and sturdy mounts where possible
3) Blipping SR
4) Circle strafing
5) PDs
6) ECMs nah, these are useless
7) Cursing packhounds for their obscene ease of use v. effectiveness at obliterating hull

 

[Martian Successor]

1) TLBs in PvP
2) Reactive bulkheads and sturdy mounts where possible
3) Blipping SR
4) Circle strafing
5) PDs
6) ECMs nah, these are useless
7) Cursing packhounds for their obscene ease of use v. effectiveness at obliterating hull

Pretty much this. Pack in those MRPs as well. Silent running isn't going to do anything however if your opponent also has an emissive laser either fixed or turreted. Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do except keep hitting them with TLB plasmas or just run.

Shieldless hull tanks are pretty much dead at this point in time. Better to use that class 5 internal for thermal resist Bi-weaves with a fast broken regen secondary. It'll be much more useful to sustain a fight against a missile enemy. In combination with hitting them with TLBs while your shields come back up you'll be really frustrating them. You might even get a salty chat message about how "Bi-weaves are broken" and "U biweave cancer scrub." Those are always fun coming from uber shielded pack hound FDL's and Cutters

 

[UnhappyDev]

6) ECMs nah, these are useless

Depressingly useless and not likely to change anytime soon.

Shieldless hull tanks are pretty much dead at this point in time. Better to use that class 5 internal for thermal resist Bi-weaves with a fast broken regen secondary. It'll be much more useful to sustain a fight against a missile enemy.

Hmmm. I might dust off the bi-weave then, but I found with PAs the pip management is difficult, having to keep a pip in SYS while trying not to cook the FAS.

 

[Martian Successor]

Depressingly useless and not likely to change anytime soon.



Hmmm. I might dust off the bi-weave then, but I found with PAs the pip management is difficult, having to keep a pip in SYS while trying not to cook the FAS.

It's not that difficult once you get into the habit of being on top of pip management. Go for efficient mods on your PAs if distributor drain is a problem and get the Advanced PA's so you can layer on the TLB effect more frequently. The rest is about using the FAS's agility to stay out of the enemy's crosshairs while your shields pop back up. You'll need to get used to alternating between defensive flying and going aggressive.

When you've got your shields focus on hammering the enemy for as long as you can stay on his tail. The TLBs will also give you enough leeway to be able to get out of his line of sight without eating a face full of missiles - this is of course very dependant on your aim and his skill in evasive flying. When your shields do go down go defensive and focus more on staying out of his cross hairs. Use boom and zoom if you have to but the key thing is to ration out your TLB shots so you can curtail his lock ons. Hold out until your shields are back up and then go aggressive again.

Optimal utility loadout for this build should be 2 PDs and 2 Chaff. If he's using regular missiles your PDs will have a chance to protect you from them if he gets a shot off. Against packhounds the best PDs can do is reduce the amount of damage you take by getting lucky and culling a couple missiles, but that's still better than nothing.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

My only gripe is the poor location of point defense on the FAS.

If they had a utility mount right above the cockpit like a DBS, we'd be in business.

 

[Cmdr Tel]

I rely on PD's, SR, chaff and if the opportunity arises ramming the missile pylons. The latter is only usually possible on the bigger ships and I'm not sure is that effective but it makes me feel better.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

OP I fly the fas as well and I have 0 defences against gimbals or missiles/seakers, 9 out of 10 pvp builds dont use any of these.

 

[Martian Successor]

OP I fly the fas as well and I have 0 defences against gimbals or missiles/seakers, 9 out of 10 pvp builds dont use any of these.

They may not be as common as Plasma + rail builds but they're still a bit more frequent than I'd like out amongst the random encounters. The last time I was in Maia I faced a packhound Conda with gimballed lasers followed by a FDL with 2 seekers, 2 medium lasers - one with scramble spectrum the other emissive and a huge multi.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

They may not be as common as Plasma + rail builds but they're still a bit more frequent than I'd like out amongst the random encounters. The last time I was in Maia I faced a packhound Conda with gimballed lasers followed by a FDL with 2 seekers, 2 medium lasers - one with scramble spectrum the other emissive and a huge multi.

If you see an fdl with seakers just msg them in comms "really? Missiles for pvp? Git gud scrub" and leave.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

On the FAS, setting thrusters to priority 1, and everything else 2 or lower should allow you to maneuver even with a damaged/malfunctioning plant.

Again, I don't have dirty drives. Not sure if it's possible with those.

As for missiles, those are just an unfortunate part of running shieldless. If you don't expect to encounter packhounds regularly in PVP, I'm not sure what game you're playing, but it sure ain't the same one I am lmao. Packhound spam is everywhere.

 

[UnhappyDev]

Optimal utility loadout for this build should be 2 PDs and 2 Chaff. If he's using regular missiles your PDs will have a chance to protect you from them if he gets a shot off. Against packhounds the best PDs can do is reduce the amount of damage you take by getting lucky and culling a couple missiles, but that's still better than nothing.

Thanks for the advice, I will give this a go. My worry with a shielded FAS was that a decent FDL pilot with fixed weapons would keep ripping that little bi-weave off, making it an ineffective buffer. But it's a scissors-paper-stone game.

As for missiles, those are just an unfortunate part of running shieldless. If you don't expect to encounter packhounds regularly in PVP, I'm not sure what game you're playing, but it sure ain't the same one I am lmao. Packhound spam is everywhere.

Yes. It's a shame ECM is not fit for purpose. It's meant to be a viable counter to missiles but I just don't see how it can be any use, given its long cooldown.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

On the FAS, setting thrusters to priority 1, and everything else 2 or lower should allow you to maneuver even with a damaged/malfunctioning plant.

Again, I don't have dirty drives. Not sure if it's possible with those.

As for missiles, those are just an unfortunate part of running shieldless. If you don't expect to encounter packhounds regularly in PVP, I'm not sure what game you're playing, but it sure ain't the same one I am lmao. Packhound spam is everywhere.

Really?

I am the CG everyday, i would say 1 out of 10 builds has hounds ( noone carries seakers).

Did you meet the 13th legion maybe?

Thanks for the advice, I will give this a go. My worry with a shielded FAS was that a decent FDL pilot with fixed weapons would keep ripping that little bi-weave off, making it an ineffective buffer. But it's a scissors-paper-stone game.



Yes. It's a shame ECM is not fit for purpose. It's meant to be a viable counter to missiles but I just don't see how it can be any use, given its long cooldown.

For bi weaves G5 thermal resistant mode, roll for good regeneration time.