ship interiors - will they happen

[ꝁestrel]

It is 21k now

It still has the same problems:

1) It's not providing a choice of other features. I'm against adding ship interiors and I would still vote Yes in that poll.

2) It doesn't account for bias. Nothing you've said disproves that.

3) Even assuming that the playerbase has declined since 2021 it still accounts for a small portion of the community. You cannot estimate for margin of error when respondents are not a representative sample of the whole community.

 

[ꝁestrel]

EXTREMELY unlikely that Elite has 500k "active" players a month

So ObsidianAnt was lying?

500k Active Players - A Look At The Numbers

So I don't post my video here very often, but I thought there might be some interest in this one. For those of you who don't want to click on the video, I've included the script below in text form (please excuse the typos and grammar, it wasn't written for wide reading). ------------------...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

I linked to my source. It was a report created by Panmure Liberum Limited which is one of Frontier's corporate advisors:
https://www.frontier.co.uk/company/corporate-governance-and-advisors

So you did, and I responded that 500k is EXTREMELY unrealistic if you compare it to different sources (and just common-sense gaming-knowledge really).

I'm against adding ship interiors and I would still vote Yes in that poll.

Then I must kind of question the logic by which you seem to make your decisions
And dare doubt that this is true for most others XD

It doesn't account for bias. Nothing you've said disproves that.

Actually yes, biast was 100% taken into account here.
And that would be the bias that ObsidianAnt at the time,
(by far the biggest content-creator of the community) was in fact HEAVILY biast TOWARDS actual atmo. Planets OVER Ship Interiors XD

So in fact, the biast should have resulted in a SIGNIFICANTLY lower pro_Ship-Interiors result according to what one would assume
AND YET IT DIDN'T

Strange huh?
It's almost like ... >97% of the community ACTUALLY really wants Ship Interiors

What about this XD ?

So ObsidianAnt was lying?

500k Active Players - A Look At The Numbers

So I don't post my video here very often, but I thought there might be some interest in this one. For those of you who don't want to click on the video, I've included the script below in text form (please excuse the typos and grammar, it wasn't written for wide reading). ------------------...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Did you actually read this post before using it to justify the supposed 500k ?

 

[ꝁestrel]

So you did, and I responded that 500k is EXTREMELY unrealistic if you compare it to different sources (and just common-sense gaming-knowledge really).

It doesn't matter how likely you think it is.

Then I must kind of question the logic by which you seem to make your decisions
And dare doubt that this is true for most others XD

The logic is: I think ship interiors are cool but other features are more important.

What is wrong with that logic?

What about this XD ?

You claimed that ObsidantAnt's community is heavily biased towards atmo.

You did not provide any evidence of this.

The poll does not ask "do you want atmo or ship interiors?". It just asks "do you want ship interiors?". It's reasonable to expect that people want planets AND ship interiors. They would vote Yes for both polls.

Did you actually read this post before using it to justify the supposed 500k ?

I did. Did you?

ObsidianAnt said this in this post: "Of most interest then, is the number of active players. The report places this at five hundred thousand active monthly players, who log into Elite at least once per month. This does not include the players who recently joined the game via the free copy on the Epic store, so it’s reasonable to assume the real number is actually higher than 500,000 thousand monthly players."

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

It doesn't matter how likely you think it is.

Ofc it doesn't. What matters is that Elite's actual playerbase is currently roughly 6-8k (If we're generous [and it used to be roughly half that around a year ago])

The logic is: I think ship interiors are cool but other features are more important.

Now THAT at least sounds much more diplomatic than:

I'm against adding ship interiors

But something tells me the latter holds more truth ... especially if we remember:

Any time ship interiors come up I try to voice my opposition.

XD
Dude, (speking for myself now) I am totally cool with others wanting other features first.
But that doesn't mean one can unjustly discredit Ship Interiors just to increase ones chances XD
That's just really cheap ...

You claimed that ObsidantAnt's community is heavily biased towards atmo.

You did not provide any evidence of this.

I said ObsidianAnt (not his community) is (or rather WAS) biast towards Actual atmo. Planets
And he made that quite clear XD
So you are asking for evidence for something I never claimed XD²
After ALL the evidence I DID provide shows that DESPITE ObsidianAnt's bias,
his community STILL heavily desires Ship Interiors.

The poll does not ask "do you want atmo or ship interiors?".

Some years ago there actually WAS exactly such a poll by ObsidianAnt.
And actual. atmo Planets actually narrowly won
So much for his communities "biast". Thing is, it was very narrow (~4% in total) and I am 100% willing to bet that, would he host the poll again,
Ship Interiors would crush actual atmo. Planets 60-40 now. Especially because ObsidianAnt has changed his stance too.

I did. Did you?

Yes
And I actually finished it,
for once he said:

"Firstly I want to focus on these palyer numbers. So numbers themselvs are ofc somewhat meaningless, especially to those of us outside the company."

and further down the line he also clearly said:

"One method of finding player numbers on games, has been to check the Steam Charts websites. Now, Steam Charts gets a lot of flak from some niche areas of the community as being “unreliable”, but in general I feel that flak is unwarranted."

And the Steam Charts speak a MUCH clearer language.
Mind you this post also comes from a time when Elite was in a MUCH better position in terms of playerbase.
NOW:
These are the true numbers my dude :/

Elite Dangerous - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Maybe feel free to add a generous 1k for the non-Steam-player (probably less),
but those are the true numbers.

 

[ꝁestrel]

But something tells me the latter holds more truth ... especially if we remember:

They are both true.

I think ship interiors are cool.

I'm against adding ship interiors.

Reason: Other features are more important.

I said ObsidianAnt (not his community) is biast toweards Actual atmo. Planets

You were responding to my point about bias.

My point about bias was about the respondents to the poll. You did not address that issue.

I will simplify the issue: ObsidianAnt's community is not a representative sample of the whole Elite Dangerous community.

"Firstly I want to focus on these palyer numbers. So numbers themselvs are ofc somewhat meaningless, especially to those of us outside the company."

What does that have to do with anything?

"One method of finding player numbers on games, has been to check the Steam Charts websites. Now, Steam Charts gets a lot of flak from some niche areas of the community as being “unreliable”, but in general I feel that flak is unwarranted."

You missed his point. He wrote about it later in the post:

"With Elite Dangerous then, we can see the daily peak is somewhere between 11,000 and 13,000 players. Of course, as with Eve Online, not all players play Elite through Steam. So obviously this is just a percentage of the overall playerbase, however it will show the trends in player numbers. That trend overall speaks for itself."

The point he was trying to make was that, even though Steam chart numbers are wrong, it's useful for watching trends.

Mind you this post also comes from a time when Elite was in a MUCH better position in terms of playerbase.

He posted a poll from 2021. I pulled player numbers from 2021. That's why I used that date.

These are the true numbers my dude :/

Steam charts are not representative of the whole playerbase.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

The point he was trying to make was that, even though Steam chart numbers are wrong, it's useful for watching trends.

What the hell XD
Are you serious?
His point never even approached anything remotely similar to "Steach Chart numbers are wrong".
Now, in 2021 there were still consoles, and YES the Steam Chart numbers ONLY account for Steam Players, so ofc if you want to interpret them as "wrong" in that sense, OK!
BUT the console players will be all but gone now.
And we can SAFELY assume that 80-90% the the PC-Playerbase for a game like Elite uses Steam.

=> The Steam Chart numbers are easily the most accurate representation.
YES!
Feel free to add another 1k on-top, as I said.

But it will 100% NOT BE even CLOSE to HALF A MIL XD
...
HALF a MILLION XD
...
how can you possible believe that XD
...
I remember that even in Shinrarta there were often at most 3 to 4 CMDRs XD

Steam charts are not representative of the whole playerbase.

Se yes indeed, but add roughly 1k and then then are, as mentioned.


PS:

"Firstly I want to focus on these palyer numbers. So numbers themselvs are ofc somewhat meaningless, especially to those of us outside the company."

What does that have to do with anything?

If you really don't understand what he meant by that,
I'm afraid you are the one who missed the point :/

...
Let me just say it one more time:

HALF A MILLION ACTIVE Players

Do you actually believe that XD ?



PSS:
AND EVEN IF YOU DO!
Then that would mean only one thing:
It would mean that no matter what FDev will do next, be it Ship Interiors, actual. atmo Planets, or a new Bobblehead,
it would be profitable A* (Which is ofc what FDev wanted their Brokers to think XD) [So much for "Missing Return of Investment" XD]
So whatever
Let's live the deam for a moment if we really want to <D

=> Bobblehead with insane profits when?
[But even then Ship Interiors would naturally make bucket-loads of factors more ofc ]

 

[MUTILADOR]

I don't know if it has to do with what is discussed, but what suggests that Epic players do not want interiors too? ... I am Epic XD playerI think not accepting that ship interiors is the most requested characteristic for elite, it leaves much to think about the honesty of such people.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

I don't know if it has to do with what is discussed, but what suggests that Epic players do not want interiors too? ... I am Epic XD playerI think not accepting that ship interiors is the most requested characteristic for elite, it leaves much to think about the honesty of such people.

I must confess one thing:
While I 100% believe that there are very few Epic-Users,
maybe their number is a bit hihgher than I dare estimate ...
Ok ... let's make it an addition 1.5k instead of 1 then XD
But I doubt it to be much more <D

Yet I am open to statistics in that regard

 

[ꝁestrel]

how can you possible believe that XD

ObsidianAnt believed it. Do you think he was pretending to believe it or was just wrong?

 

[ꝁestrel]

suggests that Epic players do not want interiors too?

It just suggests that YouTube polls are not evidence that it's the most requested feature.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

ObsidianAnt believed it. Do you think he was pretending to believe it or was just wrong?

Assuming me having had hallucinations during the video, then yes, in THAT case he would be wrong XD
ONLY that he did NOT believe it
And he made that quite clear.
In fact, the entire video/post was obviously meant as an adressment to that number.
OF COURSE, he didn't directly smack its ridiculousness, because why damage something you love?

BUT GUESS WHAT:
Those that number was directed towards:
Namely the STOCK-BROKERS
THEY (despite them not normally being gamers)
did NOT fall for the 500k XD
What a surprise

 

[ꝁestrel]

And he made that quite clear.

In the video and in the forum post he says this. The forum post is just a transcript for the video:

"Of most interest then, is the number of active players. The report places this at five hundred thousand active monthly players, who log into Elite at least once per month. This does not include the players who recently joined the game via the free copy on the Epic store, so it’s reasonable to assume the real number is actually higher than 500,000 thousand monthly players."

So where exactly does he say he doesn't believe it? Everything you posted so far doesn't show that.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

"Of most interest then, is the number of active players. The report places this at five hundred thousand active monthly players, who log into Elite at least once per month. This does not include the players who recently joined the game via the free copy on the Epic store, so it’s reasonable to assume the real number is actually higher than 500,000 thousand monthly players."

So where exactly does he say he doesn't believe it? Everything you posted so far doesn't show that.

"Firstly I want to focus on these palyer numbers. So numbers themselvs are ofc somewhat meaningless, especially to those of us outside the company."

Right there dude ... right there :/
But yeah, you already said that this means nothing to you <D
I must confess, guess a bit of reading "inbetween the lines" is appearently neccessary here.

Yet about this;

It just suggests that YouTube polls are not evidence that it's the most requested feature.

Well this is what this entire debate comes down to right now, doesn't it

You claim the poll in question View attachment 422746
to be an insufficient argument (to put it politely).
Obviously it isn't because of its absolute majority result (97%) and the sheer number of voters (21k).

So you claim the poll to be biast.
And yes, at the time it IS/WAS biast, biast AGAINST Ship Interiors
So much for that ...

So finally you claim that the number of votes would be meaningless because in reality,
the playerbase is in fact half a million <D [I'm laughing to myself just thinking about that XD]
And you base that around what is basically an FDev pamphlet directed at brokers when in reality,
it is MUCH lower ... (and said pamphlet failed btw.)
Now let's just be ultra maximal in terms of numbers for a moment,
while still being SOMEWHAT realistic:

So in 2021 (just before Odyssey) Elite cracked the 10k on the Steam-DB.
NOW: There was still a very much active console community back then.
SO: Let's say it was ~10k aswell!
NOW: Let's take all the other platforms and add another 5k
so that would amount to roughly 25k ...
Yeah ...
Now keep in mind, we are still using AVERAGE playernumbers,
not PEAK playernumbers! For Peak-Playernumbers ... fine, let's take it x3.
Yet the Peak-number is by default simply significantly less indicative than the
Average-number. [But ofc that is the number you'd show your brokers {Which would still be ... FAR from the 500k in question XD ... just mentioning}]

So 25k would likely be the absolute max average number.
With the ACTUAL average number likely being ... not even half that :/
Especially since we must now substract consoles.

...
You see, the numbers don't lie my dude.

20k voices in favor of Ship Interiors.
In relation to the on average much lower number of active players.
You cannot, with any reason, deny its status as evidence.

WHICH can ofc not stop anyone from simply denying it ... without reason XD

But because I strongly hope for reason to prevail:

=> Ship Interiors when?

 

[ꝁestrel]

Right there dude ... right there :/

Let's break it down together.

"Numbers themselves are of course, somewhat meaningless, especially to those of us outside the company."

--

"Numbers themselves are of course"
Here he setting up the sentence. He is about to talk about numbers.

When he says "numbers themselves" he's referring to context. Another way to write that would be "numbers without context". But in common parlance people simplify it by saying "numbers themselves". Another way to write that would be "numbers on their own".

"of course" is superfluous so we can move past that.

"somewhat meaningless"
Here is he's saying that the numbers are meaningless by themselves (or, without context). The word "meaningless" means "has no purpose". It does not mean the same thing as "is not true".

For example, if one says "laws are meaningless to a lizard" it does not mean that the lizard doesn't believe your laws are true. It means that the laws have no significance to a lizard. The laws could be real and true but to a lizard they do not matter.

"especially to those of us outside the company"
This is basically filtering his assertion to exclude people that work at the company. Because obviously the numbers are meaningful to people that work inside the company.

--

Let's simplify the sentence to remove superfluous elements.

"Numbers themselves are meaningless"

Explain how this phrase asserts that he does not believe in the 500k number. The only assertion is the adjective "meaningless" which does not mean untrue.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

Let's break it down together.

"Numbers themselves are of course, somewhat meaningless, especially to those of us outside the company."

--

"Numbers themselves are of course"
Here he setting up the sentence. He is about to talk about numbers.

When he says "numbers themselves" he's referring to context. Another way to write that would be "numbers without context". But in common parlance people simplify it by saying "numbers themselves". Another way to write that would be "numbers on their own".

"of course" is superfluous so we can move past that.

"somewhat meaningless"
Here is he's saying that the numbers are meaningless by themselves (or, without context). The word "meaningless" means "has no purpose". It does not mean the same thing as "is not true".

For example, if one says "laws are meaningless to a lizard" it does not mean that the lizard doesn't believe your laws are true. It means that the laws have no significance to a lizard. The laws could be real and true but to a lizard they do not matter.

"especially to those of us outside the company"
This is basically filtering his assertion to exclude people that work at the company. Because obviously the numbers are meaningful to people that work inside the company.

--

Let's simplify the sentence to remove superfluous elements.

"Numbers themselves are meaningless"

Explain how this phrase asserts that he does not believe in the 500k number. The only assertion is the adjective "meaningless" which does not mean untrue.

Dude ...
are you actually trying to elaborately spin this into anything that even remotely makes
Half. A. Million. ACTIVE. Players.
seem like anything more than a sales-pitch

If you truly want to believe that ObsidianAnt fell for it,
whatever, be my guest. He clearly didn't and actually put the nail in the coffin when he showcased and defended the Steam-Charts numbers ....
but this is not what matters here, what matters is the following simple turth:

The playerbase is NOT half a million XD
Not half that. Not a quarter of that. Not even a tenth of that.
More like a fiftieth of that XD (While being generous)
As was proven above with some common sense and simple math

THUS downplaying the status of the >20k votes in favor for Ship Interiors,
and thus the overwhelming desire for Ship Interiors as a whole,
does not hold water XD
Simple as ...

And just to gulp it down once more:
EVEN IF we for a moment entertained the dream of half a million active players,
in that case there would actually be even less of an excuse not to do smth like Ship Interiors XD
As a matter of fact, with a playerbase that large, we should already have actual atmo. Planets, EVA, Luke Skywalker AND Ship Interiors XD

 

[lasvideo]

OMG! Get a LIFE you guys!

 

[ꝁestrel]

OMG! Get a LIFE you guys!

LOL. I didn't think anyone could be reading this insanity.

 

[Rat Catcher]

LOL. I didn't think anyone could be reading this insanity.

It isn't insanity, it is the biggest pile of manure to ever grace this, normally biowaste filled, forum.
We have a single poster performing the most amazing gymnastics to argue both that a poll that has X number of votes, represents Y% of the players, despite a number from official sources disproving that claim... (what would someone else know, eh?)
Then of course, the worship of steam charts as the actual "TRUTH UNBELIEVER!" would have that number X immediately proven as a complete fabrication as it indicates only 22% of that number play, allegedly, at the time of the poll.

Just sit back, read, have a good belly laugh, and enjoy playing the game, using this thread as a source of much jollity in the mean time.

If that poll had been "Do you think someone else should be dispatched with extreme prejudice?" the figures would have been remarkably similar...

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

It isn't insanity, it is the biggest pile of manure to ever grace this, normally biowaste filled, forum.
We have a single poster performing the most amazing gymnastics to argue both that a poll that has X number of votes, represents Y% of the players, despite a number from official sources disproving that claim.

LoL, it was probably not your intent but I am actually somewhat flattered. After all, the only thing I am doing here is arguing in favor of Ship Interiors.
And yet I am not the one that preformed THIS mental gymnastic; https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/ship-interiors-will-they-happen.625789/post-10587410
+ I actually always dare to claim the stance of common sense over complex B*.
So yeah, if you too honestly believe in the half-a-million-active-players, over a proven source like the common Steam-DB,
then perhaps ... one day ... you will realize, it is not me that you should insult like this XD

PS:
You have been here over 30 pages longer than me and have over 30k posts XD²
I don't even have 300 <D
And while you fight against the wishes of the community here, I do the oposite, but I guess I am quite late to the party.