It's a binary decision, ship interiors or no ship interiors. In this case 3% voted against.
ship interiors - will they happen
- Thread starter Woakes
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It's a binary decision, ship interiors or no ship interiors. In this case 3% voted against.
Probably should have said continuous topic. It barely gets discussed on Steam forums. An occasional post from someone declaring they don't play because it isn't open only. 100% they all have private profiles, which have a certain reputation.
I was agreeing.
Expecting Star Citizen levels of ship interiors for Elite, is not being realistic (based on the game we currently have). CIG started with on-foot being the core component, and have since wrapped everything around it. Frontier started with the galaxy sim, and ships as the core components, and then wrapped everything around that. They are fundamentally different approaches, with different game engines and considerably different architecture. Odyssey added very small areas to carriers and stations, other than terminals and vendors (and the lifts) you cannot interact with anything. Outposts are more dynamic, granted, but they are still an instance, which is fixed in one location; they don't (generally) get up and jump between instances and systems.
It's not just the interiors, it's everything else required to plumb that in. None of it visible, but all of it, critical to the functional outcome. A ship interior is meaningless if you cannot navigate to it, in it, and out of it. Most of the internals of a ship are not physicalised in any way and "but they said they designed ships with internals in mind" - hate to burst the bubble, but it was all aspirational talk at the time (back in kickstarter).
Which is fine? Not every thing dreamed up can be realised. But I'd caution against "they once said" equating to some sort of implicit outcome (I once said I could down a six-pack in one go, and it turns out, no actually I can't; that's less intentionally lying, and more being unrealistic about my abilities).
Would it be cool? Yes. Is it going to happen? It's been 11 years. There are no navigable ship interiors. I think the math suggests the odds are, not good.
It's not just the interiors, it's everything else required to plumb that in. None of it visible, but all of it, critical to the functional outcome. A ship interior is meaningless if you cannot navigate to it, in it, and out of it. Most of the internals of a ship are not physicalised in any way and "but they said they designed ships with internals in mind" - hate to burst the bubble, but it was all aspirational talk at the time (back in kickstarter).
Which is fine? Not every thing dreamed up can be realised. But I'd caution against "they once said" equating to some sort of implicit outcome (I once said I could down a six-pack in one go, and it turns out, no actually I can't; that's less intentionally lying, and more being unrealistic about my abilities).
Would it be cool? Yes. Is it going to happen? It's been 11 years. There are no navigable ship interiors. I think the math suggests the odds are, not good.
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Yes and I don't expect the same level of fidelity for ED's ship interiors.
ED doesn't need all that tech to add interiors. It can be its own map / instance. For example:
- Walk up the ramp to the ship door
- Press a button to enter
- Fade to black (game loads the interior map)
- You're inside.
- Bonus: add some meaningful gameplay
I've seen SI pop-up on Steam and other social media plenty of times.
There's enough demand for ship interiors to add it to ED. There's also lots of monetization potential... far more than other most-wanted features.
It adds enough to the conversation about wanting ship interiors or not. People can discuss how it should be implemented, but the main point is the (far) majority do want it.
ObsidianAnt did a follow-up poll which showed 80%, voted yes (3.3k total votes) for "After the Odyssey launch, would you like Frontier to focus on an Elite Dangerous expansion containing ship interiors gameplay"
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Your thread which you linked here, What's the Brand New Feature for ED in 2024?, asks for predictions rather than desired outcomes.
The other thread What the new secret feature should be asks what players want.
As so often IRL, it's generally understsood that what we want and what we can expect are often very different, though to be fair the distinction was in abeyance for several of the comments on either thread; nonetheless I wouldn't take the numbers counted on the predictions thread as any reasonable indicator of what the commenters most wanted.
It's clear, anyway, there's a substantial lobby for ship interiors. I mostly take this as symbolic, a sort of rallying point for those dissatisfied with the pace of development, the Odyssey release, the console situation, and so on.
If I were Frontier, I'd certainly at least investigate providing the interiors, preferably as an adjunct to some other enhancement so it didn't look like a concession, simply as a PR move to put an end to the relentless drip drip of smack talk they get over this one issue. Yes, the permanently disgruntled would just move to a different topic, but the shining counter of "well, you said we'd never get ship interiors because FDEV bad" would remain forever.
True, but it's quite clear that the ones on the forum raising the most objections are those who want absolutely nothing
The rest on the other side are all willing to negotiate - as long as there are ship interiors.
Are you sure?
This is just 'load to chair' with more steps. The reality is, the only thing that would pass muster is fully navigable ships that are seamless from ground to chair. That is what "add ship interiors" translates to. It always has. It always will. The "Armstrong Moment'.
To be fair, that's what I'd want too, if I am being honest (which I am).
I am just mindful that if it was truly as simple as is (repeatedly) espoused then we'd already have them. That we do not, is less that Frontier may not want to add, but that they simply may not be able to (at least not without a massive rework of the engine and all the associated systems).
Trying to convince other commanders is sort of redundant. What matters is whether Frontier consider it a viable enough thing that they can do. Or not. Currently, it's 'or not'.
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Ship interior simply means access to the interior of a ship. It doesn't require a seamless transition from the exterior (would be nice though). They could mask the transition with an elevator. For example:
- Press ship door to open
- Enter elevator, choose a destination
- Elevator moves to the module inside the ship (in reality it loads the interior map and module)
- Elevator door opens, you're inside the ship (finished loading)
When we travel between star systems, the hyperspace sequence hides the loading screen.
It's probably more a priority thing. They put other game features first. Now their focus is System Colonisation. So this might come after that.
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It's just 'load to chair' with more steps; we both know that'd not be sufficient. There is only one way they can approach this, and be successful. And it's the hardest possible way. This has been requested since the very beginning. And I think that is why Odyssey had such a rough launch; it was that middle ground and fell flat as a result. I don't think Frontier want to go through that again. Which is why we're seeing so much activity in other areas, things they can do with the resources and systems available.
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I suspect it's not so much about the absolute level of complexity (ship interiors are no more complex than station interiors in terms of purely technical requirements, and the game does have those) but about the opportunity cost. If they spend time working on ship interiors, that's time they're not working on something else like Thargoids or Powerplay or colonisation or whatever comes after that.
As someone who nearly always uses the "teleport to bridge" button in X4, I'm inclined to take them at their word that they can't think of any gameplay associated with ship interiors [1], which just leaves the cosmetic/immersive side of things and that's probably not a big enough draw on its own over something functional.
[1] Implicity, that couldn't also be done without ship interiors. Obviously ship interiors could have - picking a random suggestion from some long dead thread - access to a navigational table which gives an improved galaxy map ... or they could just improve the galaxy map since "walking to the table" isn't the functional bit there.
It loads the whole interior (a map / level). For example: you pick a dozen modules, half are walk-able. When you enter the ship, there's a brief loading sequence, you can then walk between all these modules and the cockpit / command deck. That's good enough imo.
I don't need seamless walk from the outside up a ramp to the inside. If they implemented an elevator it would feel kinda seamless vs a fade to black (loading).
Well, I beg to differ. ED doesn't need the most technically hard method. Keep in mind, ED uses P2P where a player hosts a session with other players. The matchmaking and transactions are done by central servers afaik.
What if you invite your squadron (50-200 players) inside your large ship. How will the game prevent them from falling through the floor, clip through walls, items sliding out of the ship, lag. This would be easy if its a separate map / level.
SI were mentioned by some devs and fans since the Kickstarter (2012-2013). They didn't say how it would be implemented.
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I did find it amusing, around the time that EDO was close to launch, that some of the most vociferous voices over interiors were also the loudest against EDO and its on-foot content.
How on earth did they imagine they would perambulate said interiors if they were introduced?
Players, eh?
How on earth did they imagine they would perambulate said interiors if they were introduced?
Players, eh?
I don’t see any negotiation, only people saying what they want. Maybe if people actually came to a consensus FDev might listen.
I disagree, it's up to Fdev to take in all the input re:ship interiors then say "This is what we can deliver, take it or leave it".
The majority would say "yes, we'll take it" rather than get nothing.
Both, really. There is the opportunity cost, then there is the technical implementation and work required to support it. I tend to think if it was doable in a reasonable timeframe, it would have already happened.
Frontier are, as you say, having to balance what they work on, and it's logical to build on existing structure, and iterate on that, as more can be accomplished in the same time.
The question isn't "Should Elite Dangerous have ship interiors?" because Elite Dangerous already has ship interiors: your cockpit (yes, that is technically a ship interior), fleet carriers and station interiors you can walk around (yes it's a station, but it's a thing in space you can walk around).
The question is actually "Can Frontier fit interiors into the current ships?" and the answer is NO. Frontier did say early in the development of Elite Dangerous that the ships were designed with interiors in mind, but all the evidence I have seen so far suggests otherwise.
The question is actually "Can Frontier fit interiors into the current ships?" and the answer is NO. Frontier did say early in the development of Elite Dangerous that the ships were designed with interiors in mind, but all the evidence I have seen so far suggests otherwise.
If that was true, then this very thread would not exist, because people would have accepted the existing situation, as there has been endless input for Frontier to do so. The lack of any ship interiors for 11 years, and no direct statements to indicate they are being worked on is as close to an implicit 'take it or leave it' as we're gonna get.
And yet here we are. Another thread asking for the thing that doesn't exist. Because a portion of the community will never accept the current 'take it or leave it' implementation. The line in the sand is repeatedly moved.
Nothing that anyone with even the most fleeting encounter with business practises, and recognising that a business needs to make money with thier product, might say to the few that believe Interiors, or any other major financial undertaking, will ever alter their perception of what is a foregone conclusion in their minds...And one has to wonder, if it’s so popular and has so much monetising potential, why has it still not been implemented?
This is the way...
But what would you actually do inside?
Repairs- we have AFMU. Flight engineer- we can do it by pips with one finger. Boarding actions- people will cry and switch it off. Load cargo manually? After two goes people will go AUTO.
Interiors are a novelty and waste of time, frankly. You could just as easily take the arc cutter, bolt it onto a telepresenced limpet and do deep space salvage / exterior repairs like that.
Its very much like the first I-War which had different stations to man- you also had a short walking between them. In the end you just quick swapped and cut out the animation as it was tedious. Imagine that now in a massive ship like the Corvette or Cutter.
Repairs- we have AFMU. Flight engineer- we can do it by pips with one finger. Boarding actions- people will cry and switch it off. Load cargo manually? After two goes people will go AUTO.
Interiors are a novelty and waste of time, frankly. You could just as easily take the arc cutter, bolt it onto a telepresenced limpet and do deep space salvage / exterior repairs like that.
Its very much like the first I-War which had different stations to man- you also had a short walking between them. In the end you just quick swapped and cut out the animation as it was tedious. Imagine that now in a massive ship like the Corvette or Cutter.
psshhh, look who you're dealing with. We already have threads posted what needs to be changed in the new colonization feature while we know nothing apart from "it's coming".
Gamers will always be gamers, and a portion of them will always demand what they are not going to get regardless of how many different ways they are told "no".