Ships should be reworked in order to give more incentive to players to use something other than the Python or the Anaconda. (No nerfs involved)

[Sylveria]

Firstly, there's the issue of massive, massive income inflation that has rendered actual ship costs pretty irrelevant to the majority of players.

This sentence alone highlights exactly why changes are needed. Credits are no longer an "issue" in determining viability nor structure in the game as they used to be. That's actually the entire point people are making about why changes are needed. Either Frontier needs to do a complete rebalance, buff other ships inline with the Python and Anaconda, or simply nerf the latter so they're brought inline with other ships.

Now that credits are "plentiful", the Python and Anaconda become the go-to ships unless one wants to settle for mediocrity or pure arbitrary limitation.

There's really no beating around this bush, folks.

 

[Ezren]

This sentence alone highlights exactly why changes are needed. Credits are no longer an "issue" in determining viability nor structure in the game as they used to be. That's actually the entire point people are making about why changes are needed. Either Frontier needs to do a complete rebalance, buff other ships inline with the Python and Anaconda, or simply nerf the latter so they're brought inline with other ships.

Now that credits are "plentiful", the Python and Anaconda become the go-to ships unless one wants to settle for mediocrity or pure arbitrary limitation.

There's really no beating around this bush, folks.

...except for a thread full of commentary pointing out how the Python and Anaconda are not the apex of all ships. I guess any point is easy to make as long if you ignore contradictory information hard enough.

 

[Ezren]

Here, let's cap it up with the infographic for 2019, capturing the three most popular ships in the game:

Well shucks, it's not the Python twice and then the Anaconda, but according to this thread those are the only two ships anyone could ever use for anything.

 

[nanite2000]

Mamba and FDL are both much faster and better dedicated combat ships. The Krait MK II has more firepower. The Krait Phantom has better range.

Mamba and FDL are both dedicated combat vessels. If you want to use them for anything either than combat, they're useless.

The Python is superior to the FDL and Mamba when it comes to MLF, armour, jump range, cargo capacity, and passenger capacity.

The Krait Phantom has significantly lower cargo capacity, and less combat ability, than the Python meaning it can only really compete as an explorer.

If you only feel that all ships should only fill a dedicated role, that's fine - but many people disagree. Many of us feel there there should also be multi-role ships (which the Python and Anaconda definitely are suited to), but that multi-role ships should not excel in any one area.

The Python excels in too many areas as a medium sized ship. It is has nearly as big a cargo capacity than the T7 (a dedicated hauler), a larger cargo capacity than the Imperial Clipper (a large dedicated trader), nearly equal combat capability than dedicated combat vessels like the Mamba and FDL, higher passenger capability than the Orca (a large dedicated passenger vessel), and nearly as high a jump range as the Krait Phantom.

If you want a medium sized multi-role vessel, nothing compares with the Python.

Make the T7, Orca, and Imperial Clipper medium sized vessels, and they would provide worthwhile alternatives to the Python.

Pretending the Python is the only viable medium ship is either an ignorant argument, or a dishonest one.

Pretending I said the Python is the only viable medium ship is either an ignorant argument, or a dishonest one.

 

[nanite2000]

Here, let's cap it up with the infographic for 2019, capturing the three most popular ships in the game:

View attachment 162597

Well shucks, it's not the Python twice and then the Anaconda, but according to this thread those are the only two ships anyone could ever use for anything.

Pretending anyone said the Python is the only viable medium ship is either an ignorant argument, or a dishonest one.

 

[Dad Rock]

Haven't flown either of those ships for over two years. In fact my main go-to ship these days is either a sidewinder or a Krait Phantom. Far more enjoyable ships to fly, and with beautiful interiors.

 

[nanite2000]

Which would then result in the T-7 basically invalidating the Python, as it would then take away the Python's only real role away from it by being both half the price and higher performance.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that. If you want a dedicated hauler, then it makes sense that a ship built purely for hauling cargo would have greater cargo capacity than a multi-role ship.

Even if you chose the T7, the Python would still:

• Have a higher MLF.
• Be more agile.
• Have stronger shields.
• Be faster.
• Have more firepower.

Meaning it would be more capable of defending itself in a fight.

If you want combat, the Python has already been invalidated by the Mamba, FDL and Krait MkII. The Python would be left as an awkward in-between with no real place as it would be suboptimal for every practically every activity (and don't say the Python is better at defending itself than a T-7, NPCs are so poor that a well equipped T7 can pretty much guarantee either dodging the interdiction or escaping afterwards).

The Python may be sub-optimal for every activity than a dedicated ship designed for the specific purpose it was built for, but that would make sense for a multi-role ship wouldn't it?

 

[*Atlas*]

Haven't flown either of those ships for over two years. In fact my main go-to ship these days is either a sidewinder or a Krait Phantom. Far more enjoyable ships to fly, and with beautiful interiors.

This argument comes up A LOT in this thread. It's not an argument. The discussion is on measurable qualities of the ships, like slots, speed, shields, hardpoints etc, as well as ship usage stats. Enjoyability is not objective so we cannot really balance the ships around that. Talk about objective qualities, your opinion on the cockpit of the python doesn't really have anything to do with ship balance.

 

[Ezren]

Mamba and FDL are both dedicated combat vessels. If you want to use them for anything either than combat, they're useless.

The Python is superior to the FDL and Mamba when it comes to MLF, armour, jump range, cargo capacity, and passenger capacity.

The Krait Phantom has significantly lower cargo capacity, and less combat ability, than the Python meaning it can only really compete as an explorer.

If you only feel that all ships should only fill a dedicated role, that's fine - but many people disagree. Many of us feel there there should also be multi-role ships (which the Python and Anaconda definitely are suited to), but that multi-role ships should not excel in any one area.

The Python excels in too many areas as a medium sized ship. It is has nearly as big a cargo capacity than the T7 (a dedicated hauler), a larger cargo capacity than the Imperial Clipper (a large dedicated trader), nearly equal combat capability than dedicated combat vessels like the Mamba and FDL, higher passenger capability than the Orca (a large dedicated passenger vessel), and nearly as high a jump range as the Krait Phantom.

If you want a medium sized multi-role vessel, nothing compares with the Python.

Make the T7, Orca, and Imperial Clipper medium sized vessels, and they would provide worthwhile alternatives to the Python.


Pretending I said the Python is the only viable medium ship is either an ignorant argument, or a dishonest one.

I guess you forgot what you said, or clearly just don't understand the words that you used:

Please provide some examples of those many options that compare favourably with the Python.

Challenging the notion that any options exist that compare favorably, since I need to explain what you yourself said in a way you can understand. And if you're claiming other options are not able to compare to the Python, those ships are less likely to succeed at tasks than the Python, which by definition makes them less viable.

Your every response was "but it's not better than the Python in every way". So I guess that's on me for supposing that it was either an dishonest argument or an ignorant one, since you decided to just:

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Bought a python, flew a python, made enough to buy an Anaconda. Bought an Anaconda, flew an Anaconda.

Got back in an Orca. Flew an Orca. Bought a Beluga. Still flying that Beluga. Will eventually get back in my Orca again.

In between all that, bought all the other ships there are too, and have flown all of them. Just haven’t enjoyed as many in the same ways I’ve enjoyed my Orcas and Belugas, yes, plural.

Sure the Corvette is nice for blowing things up, but blowing things up gets old, fast. Cutter is good for blowing things up too, but it handles like wet crap, and I don’t like handling wet crap.

The Anaconda, I scrape the belly on it every time I pull out of the mail slot. It handles OK, but it’s boring.

The Krait is just an upside down python, so zero points for originality.

The Alliance ships are all upside down versions of the Federal wedge ships, and look like dogs fouling the lawn when they land.

It’s going to take something impressive to really impress me with a new ship.

 

[nanite2000]

Challenging the notion that any options exist that compare favorably, since I need to explain what you yourself said in a way you can understand.

Apparently you need to explain back to me what I meant so I could understand myself...?

Look, I guess we just interpret English differently. I never said that the Python was the only viable medium sized ship to he exclusion of all others. Look at my other posts - I just think that the Python is too overpowered as a multi-role ship.

And if you're claiming other options are not able to compare to the Python, those ships are less likely to succeed at tasks than the Python, which by definition makes them less viable.

You misunderstand me - no other ship comes close to the Python as a medium-sized multi-role vessel (except, maybe, the Krait II). There are other dedicated combat and exploration ships which serve their dedicated roles better than the Python (but not much better). It would be nice to have more choice of multi-role ships.

If the Orca, the T7, and the Clipper were made medium-sized vessels, how would this negatively impact your game?

Your every response was "but it's not better than the Python in every way".

Where did I say that?

 

[Ezren]

You misunderstand me - no other ship comes close to the Python as a medium-sized multi-role vessel (except, maybe, the Krait II).

Did I misunderstand you? Let's check out where you said that so specifically.

Please provide some examples of those many options that compare favourably with the Python.

Wow, it's that quote from the last post again! The gift that keeps on giving. And yet, the context around that is about medium pad ships, not multi-role ships.

I guess you misunderstood what said, because what you said was clearly not what you're claiming.

 

[deckroid]

I was honestly not expecting so many hostile responses. It's just a video game people there's no need to get that serious.

I also find it rather funny that even though I'm suggesting nothing but buffs people are still somehow finding a way to complain about it.

"... just a video game"?!? JUST?!?! You dare...

All kidding aside, yeah... people do tend to jump on things when someone suggests a change. Wanna watch s'more eyes pop and folks get triggered???

Ahem WE SHOULD ALL BE FORCED INTO OPEN

(Ducks behind his desk and awaits incoming hate!)

 

[kaelys]

I have to disagree with the OP. I don't see the Python or Anaconda ruining game balance imho. I have all of the Big Three, and I rarely use the Anaconda. In fact, I should sell it. If I wan't to fight, I use the Fed, and if I wan't something multi-role, I use the Cutter. If I wan't to explore or smuggle, I use my DBX.

I have a Python, but I use it mainly for mining. My issue with the Python is that for a medium sized ship, it doesn't handle very well. The pitch and yaw are sllloooowwww, and even with grade 5 upgraded thrusters its still slow.

The ship I use the most lately is the iClipper. I've got it outfitted as a Zeno hunter, and it rocks. With class 7 shields, 3 utility shield boosters, and 2 guardian shield boosters (class 2 and 3), I have a shield strength just over 1200. I fought 5 scouts and the shields didn't go below 2 rings. It can boost to 620 m/s, (480 m/s without), and still carry 64 tons of cargo.

 

[aRJay]

This sentence alone highlights exactly why changes are needed. Credits are no longer an "issue" in determining viability nor structure in the game as they used to be. That's actually the entire point people are making about why changes are needed. Either Frontier needs to do a complete rebalance, buff other ships inline with the Python and Anaconda, or simply nerf the latter so they're brought inline with other ships.

Now that credits are "plentiful", the Python and Anaconda become the go-to ships unless one wants to settle for mediocrity or pure arbitrary limitation.

There's really no beating around this bush, folks.

An alternative to reworking all the ships would be to rework all the ship and module prices in line with the plentiful money supply.

Not that that would be popular.

 

[Yure]

Ships should be reworked so that their design of the cockpit / flight station is actually size accurate.

 

[nanite2000]

Did I misunderstand you? Let's check out where you said that so specifically.

Wow, it's that quote from the last post again! The gift that keeps on giving. And yet, the context around that is about medium pad ships, not multi-role ships.

I guess you misunderstood what said, because what you said was clearly not what you're claiming.

You responded without actually contributing anything to the conversation topic.

If the Orca, the T7, and the Clipper were made medium-sized vessels, how would this negatively impact your game?

 

[Kelster87]

I'm currently a Python pilot. I like it, but it does have some issues.. Because I tend to bumble around the galaxy, doing what pleases me, I've found myself involved in combat, trade and exploration in it. I will just refit as per my needs at the time. It's a moderately good all rounder. However, now to it's issues.. The main one is manoeuvrability. it steers like a drunk cow. Apart from that, it lacks the module selection to truly shine at any task, which makes it a medium performer at any of them.

It's far from one of the best ships in the game, given the widely differing playstyles of people, I don't think such a unicorn exists.

 

[DNA-Decay]

There is only the Krait.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Sorry, but I don't agree with that. If you want a dedicated hauler, then it makes sense that a ship built purely for hauling cargo would have greater cargo capacity than a multi-role ship.

Even if you chose the T7, the Python would still:

• Have a higher MLF.
• Be more agile.
• Have stronger shields.
• Be faster.
• Have more firepower.

Meaning it would be more capable of defending itself in a fight.

Which might be relevant if traders ever had to deal with actually threatening opponents. As I pointed out, the T7 is more than capable of looking after itself in the trade lanes. Sure, the T7 would be hard-pressed to help much in a CZ, but traders don't go into those very often (and I'd argue that good traders never go in them).

Now, if FD were to make a "T-8 compact" that could fit on a medium landing pad, could carry ~270 tonnes of cargo while shielded but had a longer jump range thanks to lower hull mass and smaller sensors/LS, then the Python would have an actual competitor in the high-end medium traders and traders would be faced with an actual choice between two different ships rather than the "choice" between the best and a quirky but poorly performing alternative.

Alternatively, they could make a "T-8 compact" that keeps the ~300 tonnes cargo capacity of the T7, but pays the price for its compactness with a significantly increased hull mass which negatively impacts its jump range compared to the Python to achieve a similar result except the other way around. However, I'd rather they save the "high capacity - short range" competitor to the Python for a Core Dynamics ship as short ranges are a whole manufacturer-wide weakness for them.

The Python may be sub-optimal for every activity than a dedicated ship designed for the specific purpose it was built for, but that would make sense for a multi-role ship wouldn't it?

The Python is already significantly more expensive than the other medium ships (particularly including outfitting), there's your multirole tax. In fact, you can pick up a T-7, Krait Phantom AND an FDL, all reasonably outfitted for their respective roles, for about the price of a fully outfitted Python. It's similar to why the Cobra is about as good a fighter as a Viper despite being a multirole - it's significantly more expensive than the little Viper.

Remember that balance should dictate that there is never a universal optimal choice, but instead a never ending chain of difficult choices and tradeoffs. Equally, remember that a "drawback" that is trivial to circumvent isn't really a drawback at all.