Ok. But what if, let’s just say IF the T7 was made a medium sized ship (rather than create a whole new ship to do this), how would this negatively impact the game for you?
Ships should be reworked in order to give more incentive to players to use something other than the Python or the Anaconda. (No nerfs involved)
- Thread starter CoyoteXStarrk
- Start date
It would remove choice and simplify options in the game.
Currently, we have the choice between using a Python as a freighter and accepting a slight loss in cargo capacity and range for the flexibility of being able to land on medium pads, or to go for the T7 and have the better ship in terms of pure specs at a (much) cheaper price point but at the cost of being restricted to large landing pads. There's two different niches for two different ships depending on whether you prefer cost efficiency or landing pad flexibility. Which is a better freighter? It's very hard to say.
Making the T7 a medium ship would make the T7 a universally better trader, being both the strongest trader in its price category by a country mile as well as the king of medium freighters. Medium pad? Use the T7. On a budget? Use the T7. Two different niches, one ship, zero real choice.
But the T7 would still only be useful as a trader and maybe a miner. It would no more remove choice than the FDL or the Mamba (or any of the medium pad combat vessels) does for combat right now.
Or are you also opposed to the FDL and Mamba being medium sized ships as well?
The point is that the Python is an excellent multi-role vessel that is also a better trader than a dedicated haulage vessel designed for larger pads.
For me, the "choice" should be between a dedicated ship that does the role it is designed for at the expense of all other roles, or a multi-purpose ship that does everything reasonably well, but not as well as a dedicated ship. It doesn't make sense to me that a Python is both a better trader than larger dedicated trade vessels, and also excels at non-trader roles too.
Does that make sense to you?
EDIT: Just also want to mention that I think it's incorrect to assume that players only want dedicated ships for specific roles. They may wish to have a multi-role ship and accept the trade-offs that come with it for the benefit of more diverse gameplay without having to transfer and swap ships all the time.
Nanite nailed it.
Make each ship your own, not try to change every ship to the way you want it.
Make each ship your own, not try to change every ship to the way you want it.
I'm not opposed to the Mamba and the FDL being medium ships, they have clearly been designed as top-end medium ships rather than bottom-rung large ships like the T7; the problem with the FDL and the Mamba is just their sheer performance. No need to fiddle with their pad sizes, just a couple of hearty whacks with the nerf bat to some of their base stats to bring them in line. Not to weaken them to the point of unusability, but just enough for them to offer similar performance to the Krait MkII in combat, trading versatility for cost efficiency and so that players that are willing to invest don't have to sacrifice performance to get variety.
In terms of tradeoffs, we already have the major tradeoff for the multiroles in that they are incredibly expensive and therefore inefficient at what they do - at any given price point a specialised ship will offer significantly better performance. The Python, price-wise, is actually closer to the T-9 than the T-7 once outfitting is considered, particularly if you bother with the generator and distributor. Similarly, the only multirole that matches the T-9s performance is the almighty iCutter, the largest and most expensive ship in the game. The closest multirole to the little T6 is probably the much maligned Asp Scout, and we know how that is generally viewed by the community.
Nerfing the multiroles performance (including indirectly, such as by making the T7 medium size), making them both very expensive and yet never being able to match specialised ships would basically relegate them to the history books. If you took away 128 tonnes of cargo capacity from the Cutter to knock it below the T9's performance, who would actually use them for freight outside Imperial Roleplayers? At least at the moment they can match the specialists with sufficient injection of resources, sometimes even being more cost efficient than having multiple specialists if you actually want to perform a variety of different tasks, but being very overcosted if they just want them for a single task.
Context? If it's like the Inara stats which get rolled out in popularity threads, then it's ship ownership and almost everyone buys a Cobra Mk3 and AspX, but move to other ships, but total ownership of these two is very high.
I have much less of a problem with the Python being "too good" now days. I just wish there were other alternatives, hence suggestion the T7, Orca and Clipper be made medium-pad landable. Their stats all point towards medium ships, just Fdev for whatever reason made them large.
The T7 laughably by being too tall, and the easiest fix. The Orca I believe could fit currently, as per the old landing pad size thread. The Clipper needs it's nacelles pulled in.
Ship sizes (ship / Length / Width / Height):
Clipper | 106.7 | 103.7 | 24.8 |
Orca | 130.4 | 50.8 | 22.7 |
Type 7 | 81.6 | 56.1 | 25.4 |
Python | 87.9 | 58.1 | 18.0 |
Pad sizes:
I love the idea of more options, sure. We should have 100 ships to choose from. But they should all have various pros and cons.
There are multiple alternatives to the Python, for instance...Asp, Krait, etc...but they're all going to have various drawbacks. Depending on what you're doing, the Python isn't perfect, either. That's life, bro...learn to deal with it.
The Python and Anaconda are mediocre for some things, too. They may be the "go to" for some activities, but stop trying to imply that like 99% of players are using only those two ships.
Since we don’t (and won’t) have 100 different ships to choose from, how would making the Clipper, the Orca, and the T7 medium ships negatively impact the game for you?
It's not just about negatively affecting the gameplay for me. I just find the whiners obnoxious. So what if you don't have the mostest perfecter ship that you want or feel you're entitled to? There are ways to accomplish everything you need to do in this game with the available ships.
Combat is the big obvious one. There are dedicated combat ships for that.
Cutter is a better trade ship.
Lots of players prefer Asp or Diamondback or Phantom for exploration.
These things have been said over and over and over in this thread. It's not my fault you refuse to acknowledge it.
That's the point of this whole whining thread...we need more options because Python and Conda are too good and everyone uses them. That's not the case. At all. Sure, they're good for some activities...but they're also not as good as other ships for other activities. Lots of players don't even own those two ships, let alone main them.
Hard change of subject in your response, I see. I rebuked your very flawed argument, which was part of the discussion. I'm just not contributing anything to your conversation, which was a lot of complaining about the Python that doesn't hold up to a cursory amount of scrutiny.
You plainly stated in the posted that I've already had to re-quote like five times to you that there's nothing that compares to the Python, which is laughable. Your argument fell flat, and now you're furiously shifting topics.
If you think they’re whiners, that’s your own problem. You’re in the Suggestions forum - you shouldn’t be too surprised that people are posting suggestions on how they feel the game could be improved.
And anyway, how would making the Clipper, the Orca, and the T7 medium ships negatively impact the game for you?
nobody is asking for the perfect ship. If that’s what you think, then you’ve misunderstood the point of this thread.
It’s precisely because the Python is so good as a multi-role ship that people are asking for alternatives to compete with it.
If that's your metric, why not just make every ship exactly the same, just with different skins? I mean...you tell me...how would THAT "negatively impact the game for you"?
There ARE alternatives to compete with it lol. That's been said a hundred times in this thread. So what's your point? You're just salty that the alternatives also come with their own individual drawbacks. The Clipper is a great alternative...you just need a large pad to land on. The Krait Mk II is a great alternative...it just doesn't carry quite as much cargo. Even the AspX is an alternative... it's just a bit smaller. Each of the alternatives have good reasons to choose them and drawbacks that you have to account for. As does the Python...it also has drawbacks...which is why, as you've also been told numerous times, some players don't choose the Python.
This thread is not in the suggestions forum. So, no.
You continue to repeat this, insinuating somebody has stated such. People pointing out the huge flaws in your arguments is not the same as disagreeing with every single thing in the universe you agree with. Despite how you're conflating the topics.
This is clearly shocking to you, but people can disagree with your hyperbolic complaints about the Python and still want changes to other ships. Though you are clearly trying to use somebody holding one opinion as proof that you're right about something else entirely.
Are you sure nobody is asking for that? You wanted something to compare favorably to the Python and your response to every comparison was that it wasn't better than the Python in every way.
And here you are, conflating topics again.
Surprise! Dedicated role shops are better at their dedicated roles than a multi-role ship.
nobody is disputing that.
people are asking for more multi-role alternatives to compete with the Python.
We don’t acknowledge it because that’s not the point of the discussion. The fact that you have misunderstood what’s being asked for is not our problem.
If you want a medium multi-role ship, the Python doesn’t really have any competitors in it’s weight class.
people are simply asking for more options to compete with the Python, accepting that there will still be pros and cons if this were done.
I’ve never asked for all ships to be the same, so i don’t think there’s any need to answer that question. Besides I think even you are capable of understanding why that would be undesirable.
Anyway, you still haven’t answered my question: how would making the Clipper, the Orca, and the T7 medium ships negatively impact the game for you?
Lol I never asked that question, either, so I feel no need to answer you.
Now, you tell me...how would all the ships being the same, aside from skins, negatively affect your game play?
Here's a hint...it's the same answer to both questions.
And you've been given the competitors... multiple times...if you just ignore the answer to your questions, I don't know what to tell you.