Should Frontier continue labouring over Elite Dangerous? Or call it time and work on Elite Dangerous 2?

[PureEvilPie]

EDO was released content wise as pretty much done in their own words. They said this isn't like horizons where it's an expansion being followed up by several big updates. The only extra content we will see for the next few years in Elite will be another SRV and maybe Thargoid surface conflicts. That is it.

FDEV have realised and even said in their financial statement that Jurassic World is their biggest success, they are now working on Jurassic World 2. Why else do you think that Jurassic world, a completely new IP for them is getting 2 games + DLC within 3 years. WHereas Elite, since 1995 (Frontier: First Encounters), so in 26 years Elite has had one game and 2 expansions. One of those expansions being an utter car crash of a release.

We will get almost no meaningful content for Elite for the foreseeable future and that's that, FDEV are moving on.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

• The code for ED is a mess as it has been added to and added to and each time they have to fix things that are caused when they add new code

Probably, but we don't know to what extent.

• Frontier have learned so much since starting ED

Ahem... Odyssey... Not so sure they've learned all that much.

• It would be easier to put in things the community wants that would be harder in ED because ED wasn't designed from scratch for things like walking around and ship interiors or fleet carriers etc

What does the community want though. Trying to figure that out, not to mention whether it is even viable to do so, is akin to herding cats. Also when you talk of an ED2, would this mean a completely new page? Would all the accumilated 'wealth' of those who may have been playing for years get wiped? Can't see that going down well with everyone.

• Frontier are actually losing money with ED because of all the Lifetime Expansion Pass holders who aren't buying expansions like Odyssey. Elite Dangerous 2 would mean a fresh start without an LEP and therefore income from everyone, not just those without the LEP.

Yes and no. The original backers also represented an initial player and evangelical base that allowed ED to hit the market running and still remain amongst FDevs greatest defenders. Had they not had them they still would have had to plow in money into marketing to reach a critical mass of players or be an also ran.

Ultimately any ED2 would need to win over a new player base, especially if it is a hard reset and they're going to have a hard time doing so for a while after Odyssey. If it is not a hard reset, it makes little sense to recode the same work all over again - there's probably scope for replacing legacy code with cleaner, more up to date, code, but that's kind of what the planetary tech was supposed to be and that didn't turn out so well.

 

[GJ51]

EDO was released content wise as pretty much done in their own words. They said this isn't like horizons where it's an expansion being followed up by several big updates. The only extra content we will see for the next few years in Elite will be another SRV and maybe Thargoid surface conflicts. That is it.

FDEV have realised and even said in their financial statement that Jurassic World is their biggest success, they are now working on Jurassic World 2. Why else do you think that Jurassic world, a completely new IP for them is getting 2 games + DLC within 3 years. WHereas Elite, since 1995 (Frontier: First Encounters), so in 26 years Elite has had one game and 2 expansions. One of those expansions being an utter car crash of a release.

We will get almost no meaningful content for Elite for the foreseeable future and that's that, FDEV are moving on.

I'd be thrilled with a Panther Clipper and medium Saud Kruger and Gutamaya ships.

 

[PureEvilPie]

I'd be thrilled with a Panther Clipper and medium Saud Kruger and Gutamaya ships.

Sorry, there is no player sentiment for the panther clipper. I mean, wouldn't players get bored flying it after the first 10-15 times?

 

[Erei]

Sorry, there is no player sentiment for the panther clipper. I mean, wouldn't players get bored flying it after the first 10-15 times?

I understood that reference.

 

[babelfisch]

TLDR; I would love to see something like an Elite 2. But from a real software company that could realistically execute a proper design. Recent events would point to FD's lack of desire, competence, or both to do something like this.

I'd like to see something like a single-player MFS 2020 in space were it up to me.

FD should maybe stick with their kiddie games.

SpaceEngine on Steam

The world's first science-based photorealistic interactive 3D planetarium that models the entire Universe, using procedural generation for uncharted areas.

store.steampowered.com

 

[Cervantes01]

And another question:
Would the community move over to a new ED?
The player base is not that big in the first place and a lot if them are people with a significant investment if time and money in ED1....

Despite this the playerbase have paid all of FD's bills thus allowing them to work on other products all of which are better in some way or another than their flagship game.

 

[TheSisko]

EDO was released content wise as pretty much done in their own words. They said this isn't like horizons where it's an expansion being followed up by several big updates. The only extra content we will see for the next few years in Elite will be another SRV and maybe Thargoid surface conflicts. That is it.

FDEV have realised and even said in their financial statement that Jurassic World is their biggest success, they are now working on Jurassic World 2. Why else do you think that Jurassic world, a completely new IP for them is getting 2 games + DLC within 3 years. WHereas Elite, since 1995 (Frontier: First Encounters), so in 26 years Elite has had one game and 2 expansions. One of those expansions being an utter car crash of a release.

We will get almost no meaningful content for Elite for the foreseeable future and that's that, FDEV are moving on.

Some would say we've not had meaningful content for the last few years.

But I suspect you're right. 1st rule of business: Follow the money.....and the dinosaurs.

 

[Slange Lands]

I wonder if the patching timeline of Odyssey will be further delayed in order to ensure JWE 2 actually works. Odyssey is already a public relations disaster so it is probably crucial that JWE 2 be better received.

 

[Slange Lands]

Commanders are already experiencing significant delays (weeks!) in having their issues in Odyssey addressed. I wonder how many personnel in Frontier are being shifted right now to JWE 2?

 

[Stelar 7]

Where does this losing money thing come from? Last numbers I saw ED was profitable.

 

[VR - wickfut]

I think they should sell the IP to a dev who is competent.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

I think they should sell the IP to a dev who is competent.

To one who actually cares, you mean.

Okay, sorry. That was a cheap shot. I was, however, NOT referring to the devs, who, I strongly suspect, are doing whatever they can.

 

[Maolagin]

EDO was released content wise as pretty much done in their own words. They said this isn't like horizons where it's an expansion being followed up by several big updates. The only extra content we will see for the next few years in Elite will be another SRV and maybe Thargoid surface conflicts. That is it.



We will get almost no meaningful content for Elite for the foreseeable future and that's that, FDEV are moving on.

Certainly none of us knows the future, but this is inconsistent with what we've heard from inside the company.

Dr. Ross was very explicit in stating that the reason they overhauled the planetary tech and rendering system the way they did was to lay the groundwork for future developments. She's also repeatedly (maybe accidentally, maybe "accidentally") made reference to internal Elite-related projects her team is pursuing now that Odyssey is out.

Nothing the devs have said, nor is implied in their financial statements, suggests that a separate ED2 is in the works yet at all. They've pretty clearly stated that they plan on ED being a going concern for the foreseeable future, which obviously wouldn't happen if they abandoned further development. I'm as curious as the next person about what their internal roadmap for Elite looks like, but I'm pretty sure it isn't blank.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Despite this the playerbase have paid all of FD's bills thus allowing them to work on other products all of which are better in some way or another than their flagship game.

I think any comments about ED being their flagship game should be ignored. Their flagship games are park sims (in his own words at FX17, the Chief Creative Officer has no interest in space but likes park sims) with Elite was picked up and discarded as the mood suited. Anyone on alt.fan.elite in 1999/2000 will remember Braben spouting off about the Elite Club and it never going anywhere other than a single page.

Oh and he showed concept art on there (around about 2002 I think?) which showed ship interiors but yes, it is just a recent community demand

 

[LeiHarper]

I think they should sell the IP to a dev who is competent.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. I can't ever conceivably see David Braben give up the Elite IP. It was what made his career in the 80s. It was the reason Frontier is named Frontier (since FDEV was founded when Frontier: Elite II was developed).

Its going to steadily decline and die. Wither on the vine without competent engineers who can fix the mess of problems in the Cobra engine and bring the game up to where it needs to be.

Honestly, I'm done. 37 years of flying out of Lave Station in this rich, innovative series of games and so it is enormously frustrating and disappointing to see how sheer mismanagement has ruined the longest series of open world space flight games in history.

 

[Hydrino]

Case for continuing with Elite Dangerous:

• Keeping to one game reduces confusion with the franchise
• Sunk cost fallacy: so much time, dev hours and money has been invested in this game, it might be better to keep going
• Elite Dangerous is a known quantity
• It's easier to keep going than it is to do something new

Case for Elite Dangerous 2:

• The code for ED is a mess as it has been added to and added to and each time they have to fix things that are caused when they add new code
• Frontier have learned so much since starting ED
• It would be easier to put in things the community wants that would be harder in ED because ED wasn't designed from scratch for things like walking around and ship interiors or fleet carriers etc
• Frontier are actually losing money with ED because of all the Lifetime Expansion Pass holders who aren't buying expansions like Odyssey. Elite Dangerous 2 would mean a fresh start without an LEP and therefore income from everyone, not just those without the LEP.

Entire OP is wrong. FD designed ED from the start for ship interiors, walking about and all the other plans that were sold during the Kickstarter and after.

And I doubt OP knows a thing about the actual state of the game code (sources for the speculation?). It's definitely a complicated affair, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been well documented and properly coded.

 

[robbyp]

All you people who are done, can you please contact Bottom hat so he can have your stuff so you dont have to have the burden of it on your hands..

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Honestly, I'm done. 37 years of flying out of Lave Station in this rich, innovative series of games and so it is enormously frustrating and disappointing to see how sheer mismanagement has ruined the longest series of open world space flight games in history.

Yeah, that's where I am now. I have been playing since FE2, was playing FFE up until ED was available which I backed on day 1 of the Kickstarter. But I am done with . The corporate arrogance and hubris that they shamelessly flaunt is just too galling to put up with for any longer.

 

[Alien]

Where does this losing money thing come from? Last numbers I saw ED was profitable.

I based that comment on this logic ...
Kisckstarter money + Horizons + Odyssey is greater than Kickstarter money + LEP
Kickstarer = X
Horizons = 40
Odyssey = 40
LEP = 0
Therefore X+40+40 is greater than X+0

EDIT: And yes I know they sold the LEP for £140 after the kickstarter, but that's because it already existed. When they launched the kickstarter, they had not announced the LEP. Now think what they might have got if they had never announced the LEP, and thus X+40+40 is greater than X+0