I defer to your knowledge of code, I however have bought Odyssey this month after starting to play the game after.....lol 36 years?......I love it so far.........
Should Frontier continue labouring over Elite Dangerous? Or call it time and work on Elite Dangerous 2?
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This is of course a personal opinion, but i think the main thing wrong with Odyssey is that the necessary specifications to play it properly are a lot higher than Horizons needed. This has left some (perhaps many, dare i venture), players unable to continue their adventures in a satisfacotry manner. I was never interested in the shooter aspect of Odyssey, but i was willing to pay for the expansion and just continue playing as normal, until an expansion that had something i wanted came along. What i didn't expect were some issues i'm still disappointed with, like the planet tech not working properly, etc.
Would i pay for an Elite Dangerous 2? Yeah why not, what's another 30-40 quid, for that chance at awe and wonder as Horizons gave me? I'm sure we've all burnt that amount easily at rhe cinema after a bad film, or a soggy, grey day at the pub, and yet we never think of the money we lost there. Make Odyssey better or give me a new Elite, i don't mind, i'll come along for the ride as whatever initial upset i had is gone for the most part. Wait...anger RISING!! ....fading.........fading.......RISING!!!....fading.....
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pwHo0ayYsk
Would i pay for an Elite Dangerous 2? Yeah why not, what's another 30-40 quid, for that chance at awe and wonder as Horizons gave me? I'm sure we've all burnt that amount easily at rhe cinema after a bad film, or a soggy, grey day at the pub, and yet we never think of the money we lost there. Make Odyssey better or give me a new Elite, i don't mind, i'll come along for the ride as whatever initial upset i had is gone for the most part. Wait...anger RISING!! ....fading.........fading.......RISING!!!....fading.....
Yeah and then some!
Still waiting for a better meal, 7 years later...
Why not just do it in a way Final Fantasy 14 Realm reborn was done ? Scrap whole game and make a new one with the same name pretty much. To be honest i do not belive Frontier after all they have done but i would be really happy if they would prove me wrong.
I have said many times, I know nothing about coding, programming or game development.
I want to be proven wrong as well.
Cheers Monkey - Did not have much luck with the inversion control in SC itself, not installed TARGET looks like that will sort it.
Simon
I think good lore and planning in a franchise does more to reduce confusion ... but we didn't enough of that.
There is no proof I've ever seen that Frontier ever thought that way.
Yes? That can be both a good and bad thing.
That's not always the case or philosophy. It's heavily dependent on the facts.
OP has no proof that the code is a mess unless they've seen it. It is likely that it is in places, but no proof. It's much more likely that Frontier is having a hard time finding enough developers with experience in their IN HOUSE game engine.
Given what I've seen the last few years Frontier has learned a lot in some areas but very little in others. I could populate another five threads on this.
In fact, Cmdr Braben said the game was designed from the start for all of those things, but in the end it didn't seem to help. I personally am not sure why ... because I don't work for Frontier.
The final proof the OP did no research, because this is simply untrue. Frontier has made many millions in ROI from Elite Dangerous and there is no proof LEP made any dent in that profit. It does, however, remain to be seen if this profit will continue in the long term post Odyssey. If the profit of Elite Dangerous doesn't continue, it won't be because of LEP, it will be because the game went in a direction other than where its audience wanted.
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If Frontier does decide to make a new Elite game down the line, they should abandon the use of their in house game engine and/or contract the game out, as I said in a more cheeky way earlier in this thread.
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As I've said before, and a few times in this thread ... if you had read the thread ... I know nothing about coding, programming or game development. You are right I cannot prove to you the code is a mess, and you are right that I have not seen the code. I have never claimed anything otherwise. However, I have talked with and about and seen talk, those who have seen the code, and while I can't name them because I don't want to put any risk on their job at Frontier or elsewhere (unlike the person who leaked several things at Frontier a couple of years ago), even Arthur has implied the code was a mess by stating in a stream it has been "refreshed" (his word, not mine). So I would appreciate it if 1) You had read the thread, ie done some research before accusing me of not having done any and 2) Be a little less accusatory in your reply.
Again I have stated a number of times now how I came to the conclusion. It is simple maths and logic. The LEP income ended with the kickstarter, then was revived and ended when they took the LEP off of sale. That income is a known quantity, only to Frontier admittedly, but not hard to guess at even if roughly. Logically, it follows that continued income from sales of expansions, it should be noted here many of those sales of expansions are also from LEP holders, will outweigh the now set in stone income of the LEP. That you fail to understand this, then accuse me of not doing research negates your whole post.
EDIT: It should also be noted that the points in the first post, are talking points not facts or anything to be taken as fact. Again, that you don't realise this says more about you than it does about me.
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I admit that I may have been a bit more rude in the previous post than I normally am. I don't know, maybe I was channeling @Factabulous while I was righting it? 
Maybe what got me a little steamed is that I believe when talking points cast shade on the whole Frontier organization (or any whole organization), they should be a bit more factual, and not just appear to be from thin air.
Now I'll try to be a bit nicer as I destroy the two points you tried to make in the last post:
Maybe what got me a little steamed is that I believe when talking points cast shade on the whole Frontier organization (or any whole organization), they should be a bit more factual, and not just appear to be from thin air.
Now I'll try to be a bit nicer as I destroy the two points you tried to make in the last post:
- CODE MESSINESS: You admintted that you know nothing about coding. If you did you would know that all code is imperfect and the messiness of code is very comparative and subjective especially because of code interfaces. Also, I think you missinterpetted what Arf was saying and put far too much faith in hearsay. In the end it doesn't matter how "messy" the code is as much as how long it takes to maintain it. The amount of time it takes to maintain code is based on many factors. I could tell you at least five other factors which are just as important, if not more, than how "messy" the code is. For expediency, I'll just give one example here: The in house game engine they are using and retaining developers with experience using it is probably a far bigger problem than messy code.
- LEP erasing profit: With all you said about this in the previous post, you still offered nothing but vague suppositions while ignoring the past proof of profit which Frontier has given in past company statements. Now if you want to double down and accuse Frontier of cooking the books, that probably won't go well here either.
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I think the point is that Frontier sold the chance for making future income for expansions, which is true, if blindingly obvious as that was the point of the offer.
They only sold LEP/LTP for limited times and to a probably small number of customers. If that's the point which was trying to be made, I don't think it holds water in support of premise of this thread.
Also, keep in mind that Frontier also contracted with Epic to give Horizons away for free (marketing / bigger player base) for a week to many many more customers on the Epic Store than ever got LEP/LTP. I would wager that cost them just as more money than LEP/LTP, but was viewed as good marketing at the time. Should they through in the towel and start over because of that too?
I'm firmly convinced that the chances starting a new version of Elite after effectively admitting defeat on ED:O (perception is the reality in hind sight) would be a much harder road than putting the effort in and eventually leaving Elite Dangerous on a high note. I also believe that it's something Braben will not want to do with franchise which started his company.
Braben is a business genius and a heck of a tech guy to boot from everything I've seen! A very rare combination. He'll find a way to make things work out.
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"Now if you want to double down and accuse Frontier of cooking the books" Those are your words, not mine. I'm not accusing Frontier of anything.I admit that I may have been a bit more rude in the previous post than I normally am. I don't know, maybe I was channeling @Factabulous while I was righting it?
Maybe what got me a little steamed is that I believe when talking points cast shade on the whole Frontier organization (or any whole organization), they should be a bit more factual, and not just appear to be from thin air.
Now I'll try to be a bit nicer as I destroy the two points you tried to make in the last post:
- LEP erasing profit: With all you said about this in the previous post, you still offered nothing but vague suppositions while ignoring the past proof of profit which Frontier has given in past company statements. Now if you want to double down and accuse Frontier of cooking the books, that probably won't go well here either.
I've said enough times about the LEP, I'm not repeating it again. Go read my previous posts.
I obviously wasn't saying you said it. I was saying that you were ignoring facts and, in affect, implying it. Go read your previous posts.
The facts:
- Frontier has declared significant profits from Elite Dangerous in multiple years
- You declared (not suggested) that Frontier is "actually losing money" on Elite Dangerous.
I'm betting it's you.
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![[VR] James Constantine](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/275/275309.jpg?1622437385){kind=avatar}
It's actually quite rare to see an existing software solution rewritten from scratch. It requires a detailed level of analysis of the original solution, so that the rewrite can replicate it, it effectively negates a huge amount of existing IP and, ultimately, there is no guarantee that the new version won't simply replicate the same mistakes of the old.
Too true!
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DISCLAIMER: Doh! I didn't go all fanbuy on Braben because I ate too many donuts! It's actually well deserved!
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I haven't really considered the original premise as I think it's tremendously unlikely.
How would Frontier fund ED V during development? From it's own coffers or do they think enough people would be daft enough to pre-fund them again?
As far as I know Frontier haven't ever hinted this might happen, presumably because it's not something that's even being considered.
How would Frontier fund ED V during development? From it's own coffers or do they think enough people would be daft enough to pre-fund them again?
As far as I know Frontier haven't ever hinted this might happen, presumably because it's not something that's even being considered.
Unfortunately, in our modern world, any code and all code is becoming a "mess" simply because the code base is getting really complex. Just saw an article yesterday about it, how complexity is becoming a serious issue for the industry. I think perhaps the Cobra engine isn't necessary a mess because they're "bad programmers", but just simply the complexity of the game itself has led to this. Somewhere along the line, they made design decisions that made sense and were perfectly acceptable at some point, but now those designs are hurting them and can't be fixed. (And I'm a retired programmer and systems developer, so I can testify to have seen it and been part of issues like this myself.)
Complexity is killing software developers
The growing complexity of modern software systems is slowly killing software developers. How can you regain control, without losing out on the best these technologies have to offer?
www.infoworld.com
Yeah. The path they've taken where you write a bit of game, fix it, write a bit more game, fix it and so on, over years and years, inevitably leads you into situations years down the line where you would have done things differently if you'd known where you'd end up. It's not so much that the code is a mess, it's that there are so many complex interlocking systems by this stage it's a miracle anything works at all. I'd be surprised if we weren't talking about millions of lines of code by this stage and none of the coders will likely understand what half of it does!Unfortunately, in our modern world, any code and all code is becoming a "mess" simply because the code base is getting really complex. Just saw an article yesterday about it, how complexity is becoming a serious issue for the industry. I think perhaps the Cobra engine isn't necessary a mess because they're "bad programmers", but just simply the complexity of the game itself has led to this. Somewhere along the line, they made design decisions that made sense and were perfectly acceptable at some point, but now those designs are hurting them and can't be fixed. (And I'm a retired programmer and systems developer, so I can testify to have seen it and been part of issues like this myself.)
Complexity is killing software developers
The growing complexity of modern software systems is slowly killing software developers. How can you regain control, without losing out on the best these technologies have to offer?