Should there be an 'Open' Player Vs Environment Option on the Login Screen

[Faded Glory]

We lack the NPC blockade, but apart from that you describe a "private group" and open in general.
To my understanding, reducing the means to interact with players is robbing the galaxy of diversity,
but that is a personal opinion.
Of course there are solo players, and players who go on a spin with their friends only,
yet open....

In the end one of the playstyles takes the stick,
and i rather think that is piracy.
No matter how enthusiastic someone is to be interdicted by a pirate,
dance a bit and drop some booty in the end,
after several insurance screens that is gonna change a lot.
Or he simply checks in with friends and takes the joy-ride,
leaving piracy as a means of player interaction to die out.

You are probably right, but it's hard to see how being a 'victim' of piracy, even good piracy that doesn't involve an insurance screen, is likely to be rewarding gameplay in the long term.

It's a game, it needs to be fun for all involved, and while a good RP encounter will be fun for those looking for good RP, even then it isn't likely to be fun when it continues time and time again with the same result.

I'm certainly not having a go at pirates and players wanting to be pirates, just completely unable to see how it can be sustainable in the long term, unless you have a constant supply of 'fresh' targets, all of whom are looking for a few fun RP sessions.

 

[Julio Montega]

That was the original question asked by this thread, yes. A PVE only mode, which would inhibit any pvp action, outside of conflict zones.

I would expect that it would be in addition to any existing modes.

A "mode" is different to a "flag" to me, as with flagging you'd be part of the same ocean open players swim in, with a mode you get your own separate pool.
Lets take both as examples:
Flagging:
- same pond
- cannot be attacked in PvP (immersion breaking for me at least)

Mode:
- different pond
- less players in "Open PvP" -> more empty galaxy, apart from "hotzones"
- cannot be attacked in PvP

I think arguing isn't really gonna solve the difference in opinion here.
I surely hope neither option is gonna taken, for the sake of a galaxy gasping.

You are probably right, but it's hard to see how being a 'victim' of piracy, even good piracy that doesn't involve an insurance screen, is likely to be rewarding gameplay in the long term.

It's a game, it needs to be fun for all involved, and while a good RP encounter will be fun for those looking for good RP, even then it isn't likely to be fun when it continues time and time again with the same result.

I'm certainly not having a go at pirates and players wanting to be pirates, just completely unable to see how it can be sustainable in the long term, unless you have a constant supply of 'fresh' targets, all of whom are looking for a few fun RP sessions.

That is totally true, it is not enjoyable to be the target of a pirate,
but be it player or NPC they do make your life more interesting.
I cannot imagine to trade for hours and still have fun doing the trade stuff,
without an encounter waking up my spirit to actually fight for my money.

You still have a lot of options to evade being pirated at all,
be it modules for defense, adapting and honing your flying skills or
calculating risks and evade "hotzones".

Yet i think a lot of the gripe that comes towards players, that are asking for a PvE mode is originating
from the situations they encounter in CGs.
Surely a lot of the aggresive players visit those areas because they wish to PvP or
even to get some medial attention towards their Player-Faction.

The questions however are:
What do players expect to find there?
Are those expectations realistic?
Is there a compromise apart from PvE Flag or mode?
Is there a possibility in changing the CG-mechanic to solve the problem (no Galnet entry, etc.)?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Flagging:
- same pond
- cannot be attacked in PvP (immersion breaking for me at least)

Mode:
- different pond
- less players in "Open PvP" -> more empty galaxy, apart from "hotzones"
- cannot be attacked in PvP

I think arguing isn't really gonna solve the difference in opinion here.
I surely hope neither option is gonna taken, for the sake of a galaxy gasping.

What objective difference would there be in Open if a separate Open-PvE mode were to be created?

Bear in mind that players can already choose not to play in Open if they wish to.

 

[Julio Montega]

What objective difference would there be in Open if a separate Open-PvE mode were to be created?

Bear in mind that players can already choose not to play in Open if they wish to.

As i posted, a mode would be a starting choice.
You wouldn't be grouped with player instances of different modes.
Thus you'd never ever see any of those player in Open,
since they went to PvE.

Yet you would cut down the means of interaction for the whole group (no PvP, no piracy).

 

[Robert Maynard]

As i posted, a mode would be a starting choice.
You wouldn't be grouped with player instances of different modes.
Thus you'd never ever see any of those player in Open,
since they went to PvE.

Yet you would cut down the means of interaction for the whole group (no PvP, no piracy).

If Open-PvE was a game mode then it would be the fifth option on the start menu alongside Open; Private Groups; Solo; CQC Arena.

There would still be the freedom of choice for all players as to which game mode to play in on a session-by-session basis - and therefore players who may predominantly play in one of the two PvE modes (or Private Groups) could still be encountered in Open if they chose to play there.

 

[Julio Montega]

If Open-PvE was a game mode then it would be the fifth option on the start menu alongside Open; Private Groups; Solo; CQC Arena.

There would still be the freedom of choice for all players as to which game mode to play in on a session-by-session basis - and therefore players who may predominantly play in one of the two PvE modes (or Private Groups) could still be encountered in Open if they chose to play there.

That is true, but that needs time to code and a lot more time to find a way to make PvP in that mode impossible.
Is that necessary?
I doubt it.

 

[Iain L]

As i posted, a mode would be a starting choice.
You wouldn't be grouped with player instances of different modes.
Thus you'd never ever see any of those player in Open,
since they went to PvE.

Yet you would cut down the means of interaction for the whole group (no PvP, no piracy).

As has been gone over many, many times in all these threads, the vast majority of people going into a hypothetical PvE mode would be those who currently play in either Private Group or Solo. They've already decided they don't want to "play" with you, for "getting shot at" values of play.

 

[Roland2]

As i posted, a mode would be a starting choice.
You wouldn't be grouped with player instances of different modes.
Thus you'd never ever see any of those player in Open,
since they went to PvE.

Yet you would cut down the means of interaction for the whole group (no PvP, no piracy).

So, you are worried about less targets in open. If open is so bad that people would abandon it for a PvE mode, that indicates a need for a PvE mode. I agree this might be bad for those who just want PvP interactions, but IMO better for those who are not interested in any PvP interactions.

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
Yet i think a lot of the gripe that comes towards players, that are asking for a PvE mode is originating
from the situations they encounter in CGs.
Surely a lot of the aggresive players visit those areas because they wish to PvP or
even to get some medial attention towards their Player-Faction.

The questions however are:
What do players expect to find there?
Are those expectations realistic?
Is there a compromise apart from PvE Flag or mode?
Is there a possibility in changing the CG-mechanic to solve the problem (no Galnet entry, etc.)?

I honestly don't know what the answer is (and I'm not sure FD do either).

I believe there are players who want a 'cooperative' multiplayer experience, and I have backed the idea of an Open PvE mode on the grounds that choice is a good thing. I can see how some people feel that it will dissipate Open as it stands, but also believe that any mode needs to stand on it's merits, and not be a compromise (this is after all a game, something many people engage in for escapism).

I believe also that crime and punishment should be improved for all modes, for PvP and for PvE, but due to the direction the game is going thus far, I don't see that happening meaningfully, after all, the game endorses and encourages murder and mayhem for the most obscure of reasons (visit any bulletin board), so unless FD change that direction (to the howls of protest from those who want a 'dangerous galaxy ), making murder something that garners genuine punishment (it's a game, remember), will break much more than it fixes.

I don't know if it's just CG's that are the problem, but again, I think players should not be obliged to avoid them if they want to avoid 'aggressive' players, or players who want PvP, especially of the uneven kind. Of course, the potential exists for great gameplay, for fighter escorts for trade convoys, for bounty hunters searching out pirates, but for whatever reason (the networking model?) this doesn't seem to happen. And truthfully, that kind of organized gameplay is probably not the goal of all players. Again, it's a game, not a job, not even a second one...

Finally, for those players who want a co-op mode without the possibility of confrontation, no matter how rare or unlikely or easy to evade, there can be no compromise. Either it can happen or it cannot, there isn't a middle ground. Those who want no interaction can play in Solo, but for those who want random cooperative encounters, and for whom a confrontational encounter might ruin the fun of their game (it's a game, remember... ) cannot trust Open to provide those. Nor can groups, as has been seen, as rules can only be enforced after the fact.

 

[Julio Montega]

As has been gone over many, many times in all these threads, the vast majority of people going into a hypothetical PvE mode would be those who currently play in either Private Group or Solo. They've already decided they don't want to "play" with you, for "getting shot at" values of play.

Hmm.. can't argue with that, guess you're right on spot.

So, you are worried about less targets in open. If open is so bad that people would abandon it for a PvE mode, that indicates a need for a PvE mode. I agree this might be bad for those who just want PvP interactions, but IMO better for those who are not interested in any PvP interactions.

I'd say yes, and i'd hate to only see combat fitted ships in open.
I guess the way this issue is handled has to change, that hard seperation via a magic brick wall gotta go.
A recent title said to feature "sliders" to balance the "match-making" to the player preference,
i guess you heard of it.

It feels kind of weird to be stationed in a system where each day 220 ships pass through or bounty hunt,
without seeing anybody insys.

 

[DHMeyer]

(...)
Yet i think a lot of the gripe that comes towards players, that are asking for a PvE mode is originating
from the situations they encounter in CGs.
Surely a lot of the aggresive players visit those areas because they wish to PvP or
even to get some medial attention towards their Player-Faction.
(...)

No, it has nothing to with what players do in Open. At least for the majority of PVE players. It has everything to do with the challenges they prefer to face and their preferred game style. If they got griefed or pirated in Open and they moved to Mobius, they did so because they didn't want PVP gameplay in the first place, not because they suddenly realise they don't like PVP.

As i posted, a mode would be a starting choice.
You wouldn't be grouped with player instances of different modes.
Thus you'd never ever see any of those player in Open,
since they went to PvE.

Yet you would cut down the means of interaction for the whole group (no PvP, no piracy).

You do not see them in Open mode anyway and if they venture there, you may still not see them anyway. The galaxy is huge, plenty of space to avoid meeting other players. As for cutting down the means of interaction, you are cutting down the means of certain interaction those players do not want to have anyway. No loss for Open mode here whatsoever.

 

[NeilF]

Sorry if I misunderstood you then. And we seem to agree on ED being in need of improvements across the available modes, so that's a good start.

No problem

As I said, I'm not against a PvE mode/mechanic. I'd rather see the existing game be given a kick to bring it more into line first so it's more attractive to all... Then let's see if/what battles remain, and how they best be approached.

 

[jabokai]

As I said, I'm not against a PvE mode/mechanic. I'd rather see the existing game be given a kick to bring it more into line first so it's more attractive to all... Then let's see if/what battles remain, and how they best be approached.

That's part of the problem, only a proper PvE (absolutely no chance of PvP, ever) mode will give most PvEers what they want - so you might as well chuck that into the dev cycle AS WELL AS revamping Open to make it better for all who choose to play in it. Everyone's happy.

 

[Midnight Sun]

I'm certainly not having a go at pirates and players wanting to be pirates, just completely unable to see how it can be sustainable in the long term, unless you have a constant supply of 'fresh' targets, all of whom are looking for a few fun RP sessions.

That's one for the marketing department:

"The galaxy needs cannon fodder! Join today.... and, er, quit next week!"

And I'm supposed to pay for that privilege.

 

[NeilF]

That's part of the problem, only a proper PvE (absolutely no chance of PvP, ever) mode will give most PvEers what they want - so you might as well chuck that into the dev cycle AS WELL AS revamping Open to make it better for all who choose to play in it. Everyone's happy.

Personally:-
1) I'd see the core game changes as more pressing/important.
2) I'd then like to see if anything manifests itself as an alternative/better approach to a PvE solution!?


And let's not forget of course, FD are seemingly behind (1) to some degree, but what's their views even on (2)!?

 

[jabokai]

Personally:-
1) I'd see the core game changes as more pressing/important.
2) I'd then like to see if anything manifests itself as an alternative/better approach to a PvE solution!?

And let's not forget of course, FD are seemingly behind (1) to some degree, but what's their views even on (2)!?

I see changes to the core as more important too. But probably different changes than you are imagining. With no interest in PvP, the core I'm interested in are the BGS, trading and exploration.

Your number 2 is still, unfortunately, missing the point! There is only one thing that will give the PvE crowd what they really want - a guarantee they won't have to be involved with PvP, ever. You either have a PvP toggle (so they're invulnerable to other players in normal Open) or you have an Open PvE mode.

 

[NeilF]

I see changes to the core as more important too. But probably different changes than you are imagining. With no interest in PvP, the core I'm interested in are the BGS, trading and exploration.

Oh no... I'm with you on that (too)...

Christ I've been hoping for exploration depth/content/variety to be added for well over a year, but I've sort of lost hope really TBH - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95448

 

[Siobhan]

That's one for the marketing department:

"The galaxy needs cannon fodder! Join today.... and, er, quit next week!"

And I'm supposed to pay for that privilege.

Hey, here's one... make the game free for anyone who doesn't want to fight other players, subsidised by those who do.
So download and play free until you kill your first player, then get a bill for the full time you (and your victim) have been playing...

Lack of victims ... solved!

 

[NeilF]

Hey, here's one... make the game free for anyone who doesn't want to fight other players, subsidised by those who do.
So download and play free until you kill your first player, then get a bill for the full time you (and your victim) have been playing...

Lack of victims ... solved!

I'm not even going to comment on that suggestion!

Doh!


But joking aside, if we assume the split is even just 50/50, you're suggesting FD complicate their entire business model to make half as much money?

 

[Captain Willard]

Actually it's time for pve ppl to take back the game, Pirates are kool, pkr's are lame. I know now how to deal with any lame pvp combat ship. The whining is about to start.