Sidewinder shop price if it existed

I wonder what a irl price of a sidewinder would be if the tech existed and was top military stuff as todays f22.
F22 is 150 mil. Would a SW be 10 times more?
 
Well....

Gold is currently worth around $50m per tonne.

In ED, Gold is worth Cr12,343 per tonne.

That suggests Cr1 is worth around $4,000.

A sidey costs Cr32,000 which, based on the price of Gold, equates to around $128m.

Course, that assumes the relative value of Gold has remained constant through time.
For all we know, Gold might be really common in the ED universe and it's value might be far lower.
A comparison based on the price of a different commodity might give a different result.
 
I don't think that prices in the Elite universe can be compared to today prices.

The Elite galaxy is in essense a post scarcity society. With the prices mostly based on the human labour cost and possible profits (demand vs. supply).
Depending on how common place the production methods for spaceships are in Elite Dangerous ships could be extremely cheap compared to current day tech (see the price differences between TV sets or RAM modules - size is less important than production volume).

So my assumption is that a Sidewinder would probably be very cheap if made today with 3305 tech and factories.
 
A comparison based on the price of a different commodity might give a different result.
Yes, very different - Grain is currently about $200/tonne and Cr434/tonne, which would suggest Cr1 is about $2, and a Sidewinder costs about $64,000

Looking at it some other ways:
- a Sidewinder has a mass of 43t unladen, which is about 3 times heavier than an unladen F22, so maybe about $450 million
- a F22 has an approximate size of 19x5x14m, while a Sidewinder is 15x5x21m, so they're about the same size but the Sidewinder is more "filled out", so probably around $450 million again.
 
A sidewinder probably equates to a medium size family saloon at around £20,000. Sun roof and cup holders will cost extra. I'd probably pay extra for the deluxe model - with Thargon hide upholstery
 
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I don't think a Sidewinder would be considered expensive as it stands in 3305. The Pilots Federation even hands them out for free in unlimited numbers just as a Membership perk.

Today though? Top notch Military gear and the only Vessel capable of reaching other Star Systems and FTL travel?
Its price would easily be in the region of several Billion.
 
Yes, very different - Grain is currently about $200/tonne and Cr434/tonne, which would suggest Cr1 is about $2, and a Sidewinder costs about $64,000

Looking at it some other ways:
  • a Sidewinder has a mass of 43t unladen, which is about 3 times heavier than an unladen F22, so maybe about $450 million
  • a F22 has an approximate size of 19x5x14m, while a Sidewinder is 15x5x21m, so they're about the same size but the Sidewinder is more "filled out", so probably around $450 million again.
I suppose a lot depends on your head-canon of the ED universe.

Personally, I get the impression that "normal" ship technology, in the ED universe, is fairly mundane and ships aren't that expensive - relatively speaking.
Based on conventional economics, it might be expected that something like a Guardian SLF would be as expensive as the Annie it docks with.
Kind of like having an F35 for the personal-defence of your trawler or freighter.

Course, I guess ED doesn't get many compliments for it's economic modelling.
 
Well....

Gold is currently worth around $50m per tonne.

In ED, Gold is worth Cr12,343 per tonne.

That suggests Cr1 is worth around $4,000.

A sidey costs Cr32,000 which, based on the price of Gold, equates to around $128m.

Course, that assumes the relative value of Gold has remained constant through time.
For all we know, Gold might be really common in the ED universe and it's value might be far lower.
A comparison based on the price of a different commodity might give a different result.
Gold is really common in the ED universe, so is not a good unit of measure.

You cannot work backwards with any commodity as prices are broken in Elite

Cant use raw materials as they are no where near as rare as on earth

Cant use food stuffs as systems that have no garden worlds change scarcity

Manufatured goods are categories and we don't know what we are comparing, fridges, TV, Achilles Robotics Butlerbots could all be domestic appliances

Some star ports buy in Hydrogen fuel on the commodities market, so whole sale bulk shipping rates for MORE than what they sell it for retail at the at the star port.
 
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1 cr is worth 50$. So that means a sidewinder that costs 36,000 credits is 1,800,000$ as told in the (officially licensed) rpg rulebook
 
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1 cr is worth 50$. So that means a sidewinder that costs 36,000 credits is 1,800,000$ as told in the (officially licensed) rpg rulebook
I would really like a game mode called survival Ironman based on those cost.
Lets say you are given a SW as start then all ships are multiplied by 50 for the price of them as well as the Equipment :)
 
1 cr is worth 50$. So that means a sidewinder that costs 36,000 credits is 1,800,000$ as told in the (officially licensed) rpg rulebook
Do you have a source for that?

That's a bit of an arbitrary asserion when I showed that Cr1 is "worth" $4000 (based on the gold-standard that we used to use to value currency) and Ian D. showed that Cr1 could be worth as little as $2 based on the value of another commodity.
 
Do you have a source for that?

That's a bit of an arbitrary asserion when I showed that Cr1 is "worth" $4000 (based on the gold-standard that we used to use to value currency) and Ian D. showed that Cr1 could be worth as little as $2 based on the value of another commodity.
Its officialy licensed by frontier, and in the rule book

 
I would argue that there are factors in the elite universe that affect the cost of comodities that we dont have now. For example gold. Its extremely valuable and as stated before a little ton of it is worth tens of millions but that is only because on earth gold is rare and we have a finite amount of it. When we gain the ability for space travel we suddenly have access to an unlimited amount of gold because it's not rare in space and the value drops significantly. Also alot of the ship models in elite are litterly hundreds of years old which will decrease the value greatly. In real life a sports car you paid $16,000 for in 1992 will only be worth 1 or 2 hundred today assuming you can even find a buyer. That f22 costs hundreds of millions of dollars to build but in 200 years itll be sitting a scrap yard somewhere because noone wants to buy it. I dont think its unreasonable that a sidewinder would cost the equivalent of a minivan by today's standards and even if litteral credit values vs dollar values is equivalent to 1- 1,800,000 it just means they use credits to adjust for 1,300 years worth of inflation. It doesnt mean CMDR's are insanely rich compared to the rest of the population from the get go.

I'm just saying that a sidewinder probably is the actual equivalent of $30,000 in the elite universe relative to the economics of that time period.
 
I think we have done this before.

I believe that we worked out that the Sidewinder, was equated to today's VW Beetle.
 
The tabletop RPG isn't a good guide. They have changed things to better suit the different play.

Why doesn't everybody own a spaceship?

There are two possible reasons that I can see. Either the life of a commander is so cheap that loitering is a capital offense, or the ship/training is too expensive.

It seems to me that to single out pilots for extreme death would be unreasonable. Everybody's life is cheap in the Elite universe. The Pilot's Federation would not have a monopoly on training; that would be against the free market ethic that is at the heart of the Elite universe.

So the ship is too expensive for most people to afford.

Stealthie's estimate of $128M might be the price of a top of the line military fighter in today's world. All things being equal then that is what it might cost to build a Sidewinder today if the technology was there. But this isn't cutting-edge technology by the time of ED and the Sidewinder is the lowest of the low.

Private airplanes cost from $30,000 (Piper Cub) to a few million (a Learjet is $5M). A military jet trainer is $20M.

Ian Doncaster's suggestion of $64,000 is around the same as a high-status car. A Tesla model 3 will set you back $35,000. No ordinary person could afford one and many people who could stretch to it have better uses for their money. The Pilot's Federation doesn't give them out; we are loaned one by an anonymous benefactor. If we assume that the benefactor is loaning out a lot of them (unlike the original game, we are not unique) then it's unlikely to cost many millions. Not many people need the Sidewinder for more than a month or two, although the game doesn't insist they are returned. But there are a lot of players. $64k seems about the least amount that such a person could invest in such a project and while I can just see it reaching Learjet levels, I think $20M might be unrealistic.

Perhaps if we think of FSD-equipped ships as jets, then intra-system ships might be $30,000 upwards with inter-stellar ships starting at $500,000 (matching the Eclipse 550 -- advertised as the cheapest twin-engined jet.)

The question is, can a middle-class citizen dream of owning a Sidewinder? If it's $64k then they can. If it's half a million or more then they can't. What sort of universe is ED? What do you want it to be?

So to answer the OP, £128M seems about right.
In Elite Dangerous times, I think $64,000 is the right ballpark but it would be reasonable for it to be anything up to $5M.
 
The question is, can a middle-class citizen dream of owning a Sidewinder? If it's $64k then they can. If it's half a million or more then they can't. What sort of universe is ED? What do you want it to be?
I would say "yes", but would also point out that the "middle classes" in the ED universe are actually a tiny proportion of the population. The vast majority of the galaxy's population are not "comfortably well-off". They are either Federal "wage-slaves", or Imperial actual-slaves, or actually destitute under Indie/Alliance rule. They work hard, and aren't starving (because synthetic-derived food is so cheap, even the poverty-stricken can afford it), but these people aren't paid anywhere near enough to be able to save up for a starship. Or even for a ticket to travel on a starship.

Case in point: travellers. Any modern, busy airport on 21st century Earth was full of hundreds of thousands of people per day, travelling here and there about the place. Mostly middle and upper classes, who could afford such travel. Now go to Lave, or any other wealthy, high-population planet and check out the pasenger lounge. There might be a few hundred people sitting there waiting, maybe a couple thousand people at most who are travelling on any given day? Out of a population of billions. Where are all those "huddled masses yearning to breathe free"? They're all still stuck down there on the planet, unable even to afford a ticket on the shuttle up to the space station.
 
Case in point: travellers. Any modern, busy airport on 21st century Earth was full of hundreds of thousands of people per day, travelling here and there about the place. Mostly middle and upper classes, who could afford such travel. Now go to Lave, or any other wealthy, high-population planet and check out the pasenger lounge. There might be a few hundred people sitting there waiting, maybe a couple thousand people at most who are travelling on any given day? Out of a population of billions. Where are all those "huddled masses yearning to breathe free"? They're all still stuck down there on the planet, unable even to afford a ticket on the shuttle up to the space station.
Being middle class is not quite the same thing as being able to travel. On the other hand it makes no sense for it to be almost the same cost as buying a ship. Maybe the middle class we are talking about are the ones who can routinely fly business and first class in the 21st century. Many of them will take commercial (NPC) or company-owned (NPC) ships, leaving only a small number who take private charters.
 
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