General Signal Sources / General In System Searching & Finding Stuff of Interest

[XarKavier]

Returning player here,

After a 3-4 year hiatus, I decided to dip my toes back in ED and experience whatever changes have been made. The first thing I thought of doing was: "hmm okay, lets see what this engineer stuff is all about. I'd love to jump twice as far as I can now".

Then I discovered what it takes to upgrade components - materials - okay, where can I get these? the market? no. Okay, I have to grind those old signal sources, alright, I'm used to grinding in games. Fast forward a couple hours: I've done a few (like 30-50 jumping from solo-private-open instances which I knew all about as a trick), that wasn't fun but I have a bunch of mats now, what can I get with these? not a whole lot it turns out, I would have to do considerable amount more if I wanted to unlock more engineers and start upgrading the stuff I want. I was already thinking "wow I really don't want to be doing this anymore" as I continued to farm. After about 20 more I started to feel a headache come over me and that's when I put the game down, and haven't played it for a couple days now.

I pondered and thought of a way to possibly make the process more interesting. Then I remembered probing in EVE Online. Something I remember really enjoying.
If any of you are familiar with EVE you will likely also be aware of this feature, unless it's been removed or drastically changed (I haven't played EVE in years).

The method is: You install a probe launcher onto your ship, take a collection of probes (like ammunition in your cargo if memory serves), then position yourself somewhere safe, (if in a low security system), then launch your probes and start manipulating them via an isometric map. You'd arrange them in such a way so their scanning radius overlaps with one another - then activate a scan, see what pops up, then tweak the position of your probes in order to get a stronger signal allowing you to warp to it.

The kind of things you could find were rich mineral deposits, high grade salvage, pirate clusters, pirate officers, wormholes etc. It was engaging and worth doing. It was satisfying.

The material hunting in ED is not satisfying at all, it is extremely dull and purely a means to an end.

The crux of this post is me hypothesising the possible implementation of a system similar to the one I have described. I'm not even sure it would be that difficult or resource heavy to do so. But in my opinion would go a long way towards making something I consider dull into something you'd look forward to playing with.

Don't take this as a demand, I'm just shooting my mind and fantasising about things I'd love to see.

Here is a visual of what I was talking about:

 

[Broken_One]

The material hunting in ED is not satisfying at all, it is extremely dull and purely a means to an end.

I like some of what you are saying. But this part here I disagree with. -- There are a number of guides on how to farm mats quickly. That being said I dont follow them mostly because they feel like a grind.

I have found that when I immerse myself in what I am doing, and start exploring around as I go, I can collect a significant amount of mats and have a good time doing it. It definitely does require some flexibility in game play, but at the same time I see things that I never expect (like pirates dropping on top of me in a threat 0 zone, or random trade signals that turn into multi-npc dogfights with a hold full of cargo, or random missions that will take me across the bubble where I find a faction in some interesting state. ) -- I have found that the more I play this game like a pilot just exploring and trying to make a living (like taking the game up on opportunities) I have had a REALLY good time.

Conversely when I set the goal of unlocked engineering X so I can go fight Y -- it feels way more like a grind. --- While I do enjoy this SOMETIMES, I agree it is a little tiring ...... until I get those G5 thrusters and BAM I am happy as heck.


but I do see your point. I just wanted to ad my two cents.

 

[CMDR X]

I've done a few (like 30-50 jumping from solo-private-open instances which I knew all about as a trick), that wasn't fun but I have a bunch of mats now, what can I get with these? not a whole lot it turns out, I would have to do considerable amount more if I wanted to unlock more engineers and start upgrading the stuff I want. I was already thinking "wow I really don't want to be doing this anymore" as I continued to farm. After about 20 more I started to feel a headache come over me and that's when I put the game down, and haven't played it for a couple days now.

Gathering materials is the easiest and most "enjoyable" part about engineering, for me at least.
The rest is garbage. I hate unlocking and drudging to and fro engineers to play that
material grubbing slot machine mini-game. For every single stupid module you want to upgrade.
Have fun..

 

[Broken_One]

Gathering materials is the easiest and most "enjoyable" part about engineering, for me at least.
The rest is garbage. I hate unlocking and drudging to and fro engineers to play that
material grubbing slot machine mini-game. For every single stupid module you want to upgrade.
Have fun..

At least the current roll system is better then the old one.

The new one is much more playable

 

[XarKavier]

I have found that when I immerse myself in what I am doing, and start exploring around as I go, I can collect a significant amount of mats and have a good time doing it. It definitely does require some flexibility in game play, but at the same time I see things that I never expect (like pirates dropping on top of me in a threat 0 zone, or random trade signals that turn into multi-npc dogfights with a hold full of cargo, or random missions that will take me across the bubble where I find a faction in some interesting state. )

Honestly, I didn't want my post to be excessively long so I wanted to keep it concise by focusing on the engineer aspect. My motivation for returning was mining.

Essentially my aim was to upgrade the power plant and frame shift drive in order to get to and fro desired locations in a timely fashion. One element of the game Frontier have made significantly more engaging was mining, another choice past time in EVE, (a game I will keep referencing) it was relaxing, therapeutic even to sit amongst a sea of white listening to your pulsing strip miners. So I had a go at it for a couple hours. It was enjoyable (though I found myself really wishing for a dedicated drone bay with permanent drones that maybe used your fuel, not these sad disposable limpets that you have to carry hundreds of only to dump in order to make room. Prospecting, breaking latches etc - yeah, that's fine, just not collecting).

Using the online tools available (optimal trading routes & where to sell your stuff etc), had me traversing my out-of-the-bag A rated 18ly Cutter with a fully laydened hold hundreds of light years at a time only to sometimes arrive late and sell a fraction of what I had on me. Very annoying. I wanted to rectify that, hence my interest in engineering.

Regarding the signal sources: yes, sometimes you get the odd pirate pop up, or a bunch having a go at each other when you drop out of super cruise, but they are just pests you swat away or ignore. I've had my fill of 'intense' combat years ago - if you can call it that with only a handful of pirates at a time in belts and what not (another thing that you had to swap instances for in order to keep the ball rolling).

I've also dabbled in exploration, but good god, after about 100 systems and 200 planets - you've seen everything unless you're super lucky and see something out of the ordinary, like a downed anaconda or odd landscapes. The most interesting thing I came across was a restricted atmospheric planet that according to the fluff had an extremely virulent disease in the atmosphere; anyone caught flying too close was considered kill on sight by the authorities - but of course, that was just fluff. Interesting though.

I don't want to watch guides for any game anymore, I feel it defeats one of the key elements one could derive satisfaction from ie, learning. But it's a somewhat necessity these days.

I desperately want to love a game like this.

 

[Broken_One]

Honestly, I didn't want my post to be excessively long so I wanted to keep it concise by focusing on the engineer aspect. My motivation for returning was mining.

Essentially my aim was to upgrade the power plant and frame shift drive in order to get to and fro desired locations in a timely fashion. One element of the game Frontier have made significantly more engaging was mining, another choice past time in EVE, (a game I will keep referencing) it was relaxing, therapeutic even to sit amongst a sea of white listening to your pulsing strip miners. So I had a go at it for a couple hours. It was enjoyable (though I found myself really wishing for a dedicated drone bay with permanent drones that maybe used your fuel, not these sad disposable limpets that you have to carry hundreds of only to dump in order to make room. Prospecting, breaking latches etc - yeah, that's fine, just not collecting).

Using the online tools available (optimal trading routes & where to sell your stuff etc), had me traversing my out-of-the-bag A rated 18ly Cutter with a fully laydened hold hundreds of light years at a time only to sometimes arrive late and sell a fraction of what I had on me. Very annoying. I wanted to rectify that, hence my interest in engineering.

Regarding the signal sources: yes, sometimes you get the odd pirate pop up, or a bunch having a go at each other when you drop out of super cruise, but they are just pests you swat away or ignore. I've had my fill of 'intense' combat years ago - if you can call it that with only a handful of pirates at a time in belts and what not (another thing that you had to swap instances for in order to keep the ball rolling).

I've also dabbled in exploration, but good god, after about 100 systems and 200 planets - you've seen everything unless you're super lucky and see something out of the ordinary, like a downed anaconda or odd landscapes. The most interesting thing I came across was a restricted atmospheric planet that according to the fluff had an extremely virulent disease in the atmosphere; anyone caught flying too close was considered kill on sight by the authorities - but of course, that was just fluff. Interesting though.

I don't want to watch guides for any game anymore, I feel it defeats one of the key elements one could derive satisfaction from ie, learning. But it's a somewhat necessity these days.

I desperately want to love a game like this.

I think you missed the spirit of my post.

I have found, in all MMO's I have played, When I played for the fun of it I would gather materials and get sufficient resources to have a good time. I might not have grade 5 everything and the best of everything but it was still fun. RPing means you lost some times.

When I wanted to Min/Max I would grind. The grind was always boring, but when I achieved my goal I got the satisfaction.

With the introduction of material traders in the game you have a lot of flexibility in how you collect your materials. You should check them out. Might work for you, really depends on if you want to grind it out so you can get the max hauls (honestly though it sounds to me like you might be misreading the online tools or not understanding the functionality) or if you are just playing for fun, in which case you might consider flying to the next station where the high sell values are.

HEre are some videos that might help. Idk I find this one bording but if you want to grind it out this is the best way.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=200&v=-4HClk1cRIo&feature=emb_logo


Here is some information on the trading supply and demand, depending on what you are mining.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnapgNDP8Pw


I hope that helps. Fly Dangerous, see you in the black!

 

[khalismur]

It's disgusting how much grind is needed. Some materials you simply do not come across in a normal playthrough and farming using such methods becomes a necessity for players like you or like me (new to the game), if we ever hope to take part in some game activities like Xeno hunt, pvp, even CZs are quite tough without engineering.

It feels like some features of ED, such as this, were designed around the FOMO (fear of missing out) principle, like an asian MMORPG that has a P2W cashshop. There's ABSOLUTELY ZERO point in keeping this stupid long grinds to unlock engineers. Collecting materials is not fun. If I'm in a combat zone, I wanna pew pew and focus on combat, not stop after every kill, open cargo scoop, deploy collector limpets, and then after 1 min reengage.... What I meant is that unless you break your combat experience doing wake scan, ship scans, collecting destroyed parts, etc, there's no way to get the materials while 'simply playing'.

The solution is to use these super cheesy methods, revolving around relogging, to collect and grind materials + guardian stuff. Or fly a vanilla ship unable to survive the engineered NPCs in combat zones or unable to destroy the first shield layer of a small ship in pvp...

EDIT: The farm guide by Exigeous linked in the post above mine is great and I'd recommend if you wanna get the grind 'done' and finally be able to focus on stuff that you like. It takes several hours to complete, but afterwards I'm able to make ships like I want and 'play' the game instead of 'work'.

 

[XarKavier]

EDIT: The farm guide by Exigeous linked in the post above mine is great and I'd recommend if you wanna get the grind 'done' and finally be able to focus on stuff that you like. It takes several hours to complete, but afterwards I'm able to make ships like I want and 'play' the game instead of 'work'.

Such as?

That's been my issue since reaching Duke, Admiral (are those just honorary titles lol?), getting the Corvette & Cutter all geared out years ago. There is nothing to do with them that you haven't already done before - now it's just easier. It's the same story with engineering now, once you've "gotten this major game component out of the way", you can finally take on those pirate bases, heavily defended military installations, frigates, cruisers, engage with your factions navy in a story/campaign manner and.... wait. Oh.

Reaching 'end game' either through combat, trading or exploration, (the latter two turn my brain into paste) is like earning your way into a buffet of water and tofu.

I think I'll wait for the next update. Whenever that comes out.

 

[Broken_One]

Such as?

That's been my issue since reaching Duke, Admiral (are those just honorary titles lol?), getting the Corvette & Cutter all geared out years ago. There is nothing to do with them that you haven't already done before - now it's just easier. It's the same story with engineering now, once you've "gotten this major game component out of the way", you can finally take on those pirate bases, heavily defended military installations, frigates, cruisers, engage with your factions navy in a story/campaign manner and.... wait. Oh.

Reaching 'end game' either through combat, trading or exploration, (the latter two turn my brain into paste) is like earning your way into a buffet of water and tofu.

I think I'll wait for the next update. Whenever that comes out.

What about fighting the thargoids? Also once they are unlocked you can regear them for other purposes as necessary.

AS far as taking on bases well..... yea..... Something I would like to do, so I am working on a platform for that. My T-10 does alright clearing out system defense forces from war targets but I want to build an orbital assault platform with LR cannons so I can bombard bases as well. Take out all those nasty turrets. -- Still will have to be able to fight of the SDF when they show up though.


But like I put in my first reply, I try to enjoy the journey to easy mode. -- It really isnt that hard with G3 engineering and G1 sheild boosters and such. -- I dont have all the mat's often, so I have some strange builds. It makes fighting fun (like having thermal conduit on beam lasers so when I pop off my class 5 scb I can pump out some extra damage for a sec.) -- Still not optimal, but it is unexpectedly fun. (though admittedly there are some things I would like to work better.

 

[Nickolai]

If you are logging in and out to collect materials, you're doing it wrong. It's only a grind if you make it one.

Yesterday I collected an obscene amount of materials and data in about 1-2 hours (almost filled up on Imperial shielding, a dozen Pharm. Isolators, and a bunch of Proto Radiolic Alloys). I did this by going to 3 systems (Matikuoluk , Nepi, and Ye'kuape), and dropping in on all High Grade and Encoded Emissions signals. As a bonus, Ye'kuape is a manufactured material trader so I did some trading once I was done.

These same 3 systems filled me up 3 weeks ago as well. And I'm sure there are many other systems where you can get these same types of signals.

These signal sources are very common, and they are all over the place. If you are farming a single location over and over by logging in and out, you have no right to complain about "the grind," since you've intentionally made it one.

 

[khalismur]

If you are logging in and out to collect materials, you're doing it wrong. It's only a grind if you make it one.

Yesterday I collected an obscene amount of materials and data in about 1-2 hours

Well the relog method fills up from zero to max capacity in 15~20 minutes, given you arrive at a HGE with that remaining time. So wrong in what way? I wanna get this stupid material collecting done ASAP so I can go back to simply pew pew or exploring, for me the 'correct' way is the fastest.

 

[Nickolai]

Well the relog method fills up from zero to max capacity in 15~20 minutes, given you arrive at a HGE with that remaining time. So wrong in what way? I wanna get this stupid material collecting done ASAP so I can go back to simply pew pew or exploring, for me the 'correct' way is the fastest.

As long as you're not complaining about having to re-log and how much of a grind it is, then do your thing. I was addressing those who, for example, go to Dav's Hope (or some other place, re-log dozens of times, then complain about how Fdev made the game grindy.

For me cruising around and dropping in on different signals is more "realistic" and immersive than logging in-and-out of the game to "cheese" an HGE spawn. I collected a lot of materials before I even knew what they were for. By the time I found out about Felicity, I already had enough for a few basic upgrades, and that was just from playing the game and exploring normally...

 

[Brrokk]

Things have changed since the last couple of updates. Going back further, I sometimes had to purposefully search for materials. Datamined Wake Exceptions and Chemical Manipulators stand out in my memory. Modular Terminals too, although they weren't materials. Now, however, materials and data just pile up from normal gameplay (OK, as long as some of that gameplay is on planet surfaces).

I'm not sure if OP realises that the FSS we now have is able to locate all the signal sources in a system. It does roughly what is being proposed I think.

For completeness, here's the advice on gathering materials during gameplay which I compiled from previous threads:

• Always carry collector limpets and collect everything left after combat, or be prepared to scoop materials manually. Check the "Contacts" tab to see if any useful materials are nearby.
• Scan ships whenever entering and leaving a station, and in supercruise when possible. (It used to be the case that Datamined Wake Exceptions could only be got from wake scanning; now you can get them occasionally from ship scans or trade for them instead).
• Drop in on biological or geological surface sites and collect phloem or crystal clusters, which always yield the planet's grade 5 materials.
• Get allied and choose missions which give grade 5 materials. Some missions give 5 materials or data, usually Biotech Conductors, Exquisite Focus Crystals or Modified Embedded Firmware.
• Submit to interdictions and fight pirates rather than running. Delivery missions of precious cargoes from extraction systems can attract pirates which drop grade 5 materials when destroyed.
• Use traders to even out your stocks, but only to prevent filling up or to get materials you need, not for complete levelling. They don't give good exchange rates.
• Try out Dav's Hope, crashed Anacondas and Jameson's crashed Cobra; these are special sites which have materials or data available to be collected. Relogging restocks them.
• Drop in on signal sources when they're nearby, especially high-grade ones.

 

[Sylow]

I like some of what you are saying. But this part here I disagree with. -- There are a number of guides on how to farm mats quickly. That being said I dont follow them mostly because they feel like a grind.

I have found that when I immerse myself in what I am doing, and start exploring around as I go, I can collect a significant amount of mats and have a good time doing it. It definitely does require some flexibility in game play, but at the same time I see things that I never expect (like pirates dropping on top of me in a threat 0 zone, or random trade signals that turn into multi-npc dogfights with a hold full of cargo, or random missions that will take me across the bubble where I find a faction in some interesting state. ) -- I have found that the more I play this game like a pilot just exploring and trying to make a living (like taking the game up on opportunities) I have had a REALLY good time.

Conversely when I set the goal of unlocked engineering X so I can go fight Y -- it feels way more like a grind. --- While I do enjoy this SOMETIMES, I agree it is a little tiring ...... until I get those G5 thrusters and BAM I am happy as heck.


but I do see your point. I just wanted to ad my two cents.

I very much agree here. If you set your mind on "i want this engineered, right now", it turns the game into a grind. This is no fun at all, and usually also not even time efficient. The mentioned longer jump range is a great example. Sure it gives you extra jump range, so it might reduce your travel time by one or two jumps. But you still have to scoop the fuel on longer trips, so the actual time saved per trip is not as much as many people think.

When you then consider how much time you invested to gather the materials and upgrade your FSD, you have to travel a lot to be actually worth it, especially on the higher grades. My personal way of playing is that i just collect materials which cross my way, anyway. When some materials get close to the storage limit, i visit a material trader and exchange them for those which i am short of. As long as your playstyle is somewhat diverse (bounty hunting provides all but raw materials, which you can get from surface prospecting or rock mining with mining lasers), stuff comes in all of the time.

Honestly, I didn't want my post to be excessively long so I wanted to keep it concise by focusing on the engineer aspect. My motivation for returning was mining.

Essentially my aim was to upgrade the power plant and frame shift drive in order to get to and fro desired locations in a timely fashion. One element of the game Frontier have made significantly more engaging was mining, another choice past time in EVE, (a game I will keep referencing) it was relaxing, therapeutic even to sit amongst a sea of white listening to your pulsing strip miners. So I had a go at it for a couple hours. It was enjoyable (though I found myself really wishing for a dedicated drone bay with permanent drones that maybe used your fuel, not these sad disposable limpets that you have to carry hundreds of only to dump in order to make room. Prospecting, breaking latches etc - yeah, that's fine, just not collecting).

Using the online tools available (optimal trading routes & where to sell your stuff etc), had me traversing my out-of-the-bag A rated 18ly Cutter with a fully laydened hold hundreds of light years at a time only to sometimes arrive late and sell a fraction of what I had on me. Very annoying. I wanted to rectify that, hence my interest in engineering.

You can do all your mining without any engineering needed at all. And while mining, if you use mining lasers, you will fill your raw material storage for some materials automatically. When something is full, just go and trade for something you need.

And on the arriving too late to sell: if that happens to you, it's not because of your jump range. A few minutes earlier or later don't make the difference here. If something has so low demand that you can't sell your whole cargo any more, chances even are that slightly slower speed is the reason you are able to sell anything at all. Most likely somebody else just filled the marked and demand is just recovering.

But i really never had it happen yet that i would deliver something to a high-price station and demand would be zero and they would not buy. The only time i experienced things like that was the other direction, at community goals which demanded very specific goods and all stations within 70 LY range being down to one or another dozen of units of the commodity. (Nothing stays at zero for long in the ED trade screen, unless it's some rare good, and you just bought the maximum they give you. )

I've also dabbled in exploration, but good god, after about 100 systems and 200 planets - you've seen everything unless you're super lucky and see something out of the ordinary, like a downed anaconda or odd landscapes. The most interesting thing I came across was a restricted atmospheric planet that according to the fluff had an extremely virulent disease in the atmosphere; anyone caught flying too close was considered kill on sight by the authorities - but of course, that was just fluff. Interesting though.

There's actually things out there, which only very few players ever have encountered first hand. But indeed, the galaxy is large and these things are rare. You don't stumble over them by just checking a random 100 systems.

Mind you, i am speaking from the perspective of somebody who is not an active explorer. I also do find that i don't have the time available to really get into full exploration mode. It indeed is a very time intensive activity and clearly not for everybody. I rather just admire the screenshots or videos of people who discover something new. But i do respect the time and dedication of those people, who spend all the effort to find those things think that them being rare is kind of a precondition for them being very special. If everybody and his dog would stumble over those things when roaming through their backyard, they wouldn't feel special or rewarding at all.