Simple solution to system sniping

[CMDR kekosummer]

Add a short grace period for new colonies to let their architect be the only one capable of using colonisation contact to make new claim from that system.
It can be 15 minutes or even 24 hours.
This won't slow down colonization. Any colonization effort that would such timeout if a highly organised group effort that highly likely will involve the architect anyway.

Is there any reason to not implement something simple to prevent system sniping - a thing that is objectively annoying?

 

[PilotB]

It doesn't work. It'll change how sniping works and limit some edge cases like the guy sitting in supercruise waiting for you to load the last load. Anything less than 8 hours and you cannot sleep during the build. Anything over 4 hours and you just slap down your own outpost at the last step and take the claim.

Simple solution. Just let people claim the systems they want directly. If they don't want isolated systems then they can add some basic mechanics around market links or whatever they feel like.

 

[aRJay]

It doesn't work. It'll change how sniping works and limit some edge cases like the guy sitting in supercruise waiting for you to load the last load. Anything less than 8 hours and you cannot sleep during the build. Anything over 4 hours and you just slap down your own outpost at the last step and take the claim.

Simple solution. Just let people claim the systems they want directly. If they don't want isolated systems then they can add some basic mechanics around market links or whatever they feel like.

Even that won’t stop it.
People actually in a position to play immediately the game goes live after the update will be able to claim systems in advance of those in other time zones or different RL priorities.

 

[PilotB]

Even that won’t stop it.
People actually in a position to play immediately the game goes live after the update will be able to claim systems in advance of those in other time zones or different RL priorities.

It's not about stopping people taking systems. It's about making it so it doesn't feel horrible when it does happen. If people haven't invested weeks in trying to get somewhere they're not going to feel as bad when it's taken and they can just take an alternative straight away. 400 billion stars gives you many alternatives for all but the rarest systems and if you care about something that rare you can use an alarm clock.

 

[CMDR kekosummer]

Anything over 4 hours and you just slap down your own outpost at the last step and take the claim.

Which is totally fine, cause in this case they do their own work.
Like, I'm totally ok with someone putting their own effort and expanding from their own colonies.

 

[CMDR kekosummer]

Crazy idea, but what if colonization contact was like an actual facility? Or at least an upgrade architect can pay for.

That way, there's always at most 1 edge system that cannot be expanded from. (unless someone is an ass and claimed whole bubble without colonization contact which is still hard to pull off unles there's like literally a bottleneck system that is the only way to go, somebody else can always make a claim too)
And once at least 1 claim is done, it's available for all.

So coordinated group bridging will still be a thing. and commanders can go to sleep safely (even if that's 2000ly away from Sol)

 

[imski]

Claim jumping has always been a thing, that colonisation has it counts as a positive to me.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

If you wanna protect yourself from system sniping, leave 10 commodities or so in your carrier of every commodity in the list. And don't just finish them one by one. Leave a bit of everything uncompleted.

Do this so that your last haul will include all commodities spread out. You can do it in one haul. Someone else will have to do a big shopping list of several stations. You're being annoying to them and adding extra work.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Add a short grace period for new colonies to let their architect be the only one capable of using colonisation contact to make new claim from that system.
It can be 15 minutes or even 24 hours.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a 24 hour pause on the colonization contact for everybody but the architect. I can't believe its a significant program change, and it would resolve issues. Maybe not all issues, but the sniping complaint would be significantly reduced. It would also eliminate "accidental" sniping: innocent cmdrs that just happen to claim a system at the right/wrong time. With a couple thousand players online it must happen quite often.

People can argue all day its not necessary. Which is true. Building a colony isn't necessary either. Or any other feature or activity in ED. This is a pretty simple request.

 

[SteveWW57]

Bottom line, is that some CMDRs want to have first claim on a system and that no one else can use their newly completed station.

Why not just let CMDRs claim any system anywhere, for a non refundable fee? If the primary station is not completed, then the system can be claimed by another CMDR, just not the original claimer.

 

[CMDR kekosummer]

If you wanna protect yourself from system sniping, leave 10 commodities or so in your carrier of every commodity in the list. And don't just finish them one by one. Leave a bit of everything uncompleted.

Do this so that your last haul will include all commodities spread out. You can do it in one haul. Someone else will have to do a big shopping list of several stations. You're being annoying to them and adding extra work.

I was doing exactly that and it didn't help a bit.

Though later sniper didn't get to secure the claim (or got account deleted?).

Anyway, if the conversation goes into what I can do to protect myself from this bad quality game design, my question will always: don't play such games. But I am here to make an argument to improve the game. If it doesn't reflect on fair requests - well, too bad, will find a better product to spend time and money on.

 

[CMDR kekosummer]

Bottom line, is that some CMDRs want to have first claim on a system and that no one else can use their newly completed station.

Why not just let CMDRs claim any system anywhere, for a non refundable fee? If the primary station is not completed, then the system can be claimed by another CMDR, just not the original claimer.

If we talk about same rules that only 1 pending claim by commander and a timer on securing claim, just without the radius, thensystem might get into softlock, when everyone claimed some system with ELW and there's no possibility to bridge. I don't think I udnerstood that idea fully...

And if there's no bridging and radi at all, then it literally will be just a bunch of racing towards claiming ELWs around the map with lonely systems that can't do most of BGS (since it often relies on nearby systems). And any substantial jump in radi will also break BGS further.

I like that bubble grows in small steps. That feels intuitive given that commanders are not just architect but also the only and elite working force (cause NPC are not good enough to haul Steel or whatever). Even if making a bunch of Colonia clusters of systems is a cool idea.
Bridging requires either much dedication or good coordination. Colonization opened prospects for trading between commanders, and substantial accumulation of welth by middlemans... That's an interesting spin, that might get ruined if it happens as desolate island thousands of years away from bubble. Or it might completely evolve into something else where commanders unite and go on hauling expeditions like true sailors of the void... Anyway, I can see why that would be seen as a risky step by developers.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

I was doing exactly that and it didn't help a bit.

Though later sniper didn't get to secure the claim (or got account deleted?).

Anyway, if the conversation goes into what I can do to protect myself from this bad quality game design, my question will always: don't play such games. But I am here to make an argument to improve the game. If it doesn't reflect on fair requests - well, too bad, will find a better product to spend time and money on.

I mean, I agree it's bad design. The 15 minute grace period you mentioned DOES something. It doesn't solve EVERY problem with this, and system sniping will still be a thing in other cases, but it does help. You'll quickly find that in these forums though, people love to make perfect the enemy of good. The entire forums are filled with nay-sayers that will always shut down every single solution or proposal no matter what, if it's not completely and utterly perfect in every way shape or form whatsoever at solving every single problem the game has at once.

Even then, they'll come up with a reason to shut it down. People in here don't think "Is this a good idea?" but they think "How can I poke a million holes in it?"

I remember a while ago, people always complained about supercruise travel times. Any proposed solution or QOL improvement never survived scrutiny in these forums because "it makes the game feel big, it's supposed to be realistic! You're supposed to AFK in supercruise for 40 minutes while travelling to map that distant ELW you found exploring, scrub" and honestly, I'm just so glad Frontier in this case didn't listen to them and eventually added the supercruise overcharge feature on SCO FSD's. The community loved them, but if it was up to the forums, it would never have seen the light of day.

Frontier often makes bad decisions because they take feedback from these people, when in truth their feedback is completely worthless, if you can even call it 'feedback'.

 

[Raedawn]

I mean, I agree it's bad design. The 15 minute grace period you mentioned DOES something. It doesn't solve EVERY problem with this, and system sniping will still be a thing in other cases, but it does help. You'll quickly find that in these forums though, people love to make perfect the enemy of good. The entire forums are filled with nay-sayers that will always shut down every single solution or proposal no matter what, if it's not completely and utterly perfect in every way shape or form whatsoever at solving every single problem the game has at once.

Even then, they'll come up with a reason to shut it down. People in here don't think "Is this a good idea?" but they think "How can I poke a million holes in it?"

I remember a while ago, people always complained about supercruise travel times. Any proposed solution or QOL improvement never survived scrutiny in these forums because "it makes the game feel big, it's supposed to be realistic! You're supposed to AFK in supercruise for 40 minutes while travelling to map that distant ELW you found exploring, scrub" and honestly, I'm just so glad Frontier in this case didn't listen to them and eventually added the supercruise overcharge feature on SCO FSD's. The community loved them, but if it was up to the forums, it would never have seen the light of day.

Frontier often makes bad decisions because they take feedback from these people, when in truth their feedback is completely worthless, if you can even call it 'feedback'.

WOW....
Let me get this straight, You are the defining entity of all that is right and 'good' and anyone having an opinion contrary to yours is 'bad' and a 'naysayer' and are rightly slander as such.

Maybe a far less self-delusional opinion is that you come up with a lot bad ideas; such that your ideas frequently get a million holes poked into them. I will state here that the defining characteristic of a good idea is that they don't have a million places you can poke holes into them !

Also, you are stating that everyone that gives feedback that contradicts your personal opinion is bad and not even worth of being called feedback. The fact that the Fdev's took the idea and put it into the game speaks to their feedback being valuable and in the vision or direction that the Fdevs are going with the game and further, your denouncement of their ideas again points to how bad your ideas about game design are and will likely remain.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

WOW....
Let me get this straight, You are the defining entity of all that is right and 'good' and anyone having an opinion contrary to yours is 'bad' and a 'naysayer' and are rightly slander as such.

Maybe a far less self-delusional opinion is that you come up with a lot bad ideas; such that your ideas frequently get a million holes poked into them. I will state here that the defining characteristic of a good idea is that they don't have a million places you can poke holes into them !

Also, you are stating that everyone that gives feedback that contradicts your personal opinion is bad and not even worth of being called feedback. The fact that the Fdev's took the idea and put it into the game speaks to their feedback being valuable and in the vision or direction that the Fdevs are going with the game and further, your denouncement of their ideas again points to how bad your ideas about game design are and will likely remain.

I don't propose any ideas here, it's just something I see with every proposal or solution or suggestion by players. Some of which end up being implemented by Frontier anyway, so the nay sayers were always nay sayers.

Here something like a 15 minute grace period for example wouldn't solve all problems, but it would help in some of the most egregious cases of system sniping, and it would also not inconvenience you in any way and not cause any problems for quite literally anybody. There's not really any holes to poke at this idea but people try anyway because they wanna sound cool and smart about why every idea sucks, apparently.

And for what it's worth I can look up literally one comment above mine and I see you going off against the OP calling them childish, entitled, and referring to their understandable frustration about doing all the work only for someone to tap a button and get all the credit as an 'emotional problem' that Frontier shouldn't invest any time in solving or alleviating. You serious? I didn't even mention you, quote you and I wasn't thinking about you when I made my comment but it just looks like the shoe fits... this is what I mean with the nay saying. There's not even a good reason for you to have gone off like that, it's just "We shouldn't implement this simply because I don't like it and I don't feel like it". There's no discourse at all

 

[CMDR kekosummer]

Hehe, "this escalated quickly".
Will just add that it's one thing to criticise everything at all times and carefuly filtering ideas and projects while nurturing ones with potential.

Ad as of original topic, I forgot to state that my take is coming more from the idea that being an architect has no authority atm.
All you get to do is place facilities. you can't cancel them, or move. you can't buy them. you don't have any special power over bgs.you might get a ty 3% discount if you build a lot...and having some control over colonization is about the only thing that won't impact other aspects of the game while also being the one currently unbalanced.

There's an alternative view that I sympathise with: claiming system shouldn't give any privelege. But I don't think suchaproach could work in an MMO set in dystopian future, where we have 3 major powers, 12 minor prowers, thousands of factions, and all and each of them playing feudalism.

 

[Mersozz]

I would propose that the person who activated the colonization beacon should be the only one able to hit the completion button. Just my $0.02.

Having said that, I was not aware that system sniping was a major deal.

 

[CMDR kekosummer]

I would propose that the person who activated the colonization beacon should be the only one able to hit the completion button. Just my $0.02.

Funny, but that would go against current go-to method of preventing system sniping

 

[SteveWW57]

I would propose that the person who activated the colonization beacon should be the only one able to hit the completion button. Just my $0.02.

Having said that, I was not aware that system sniping was a major deal.

It is for those working to grab a desirable system that they have identified as theirs by right of building a primary station.

I can empathise with having identified a desired system, putting effort in to get there and then having some other CMDR grab it. A desirable system is likely to be known by more than one CMDR and currently no CMDR has the right to any system. First come first served. If a claim delay function as suggested was implemented, and the number of systems in the chain is several or more, a dedicated CMDR or group could fast build from a system further back and claim the desired system first. After all, if it is such a desirable system then the effort would be worth it. Such an event would only compound any sense of loss and grievance for the wasted effort, especially if the chain if bridge systems is getting long. I see no easy/practical solutions to the perceived sniping problem.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

It is for those working to grab a desirable system that they have identified as theirs by right of building a primary station.

I can empathise with having identified a desired system, putting effort in to get there and then having some other CMDR grab it. A desirable system is likely to be known by more than one CMDR and currently no CMDR has the right to any system. First come first served. If a claim delay function as suggested was implemented, and the number of systems in the chain is several or more, a dedicated CMDR or group could fast build from a system further back and claim the desired system first. After all, if it is such a desirable system then the effort would be worth it. Such an event would only compound any sense of loss and grievance for the wasted effort, especially if the chain if bridge systems is getting long. I see no easy/practical solutions to the perceived sniping problem.

I think it's true that there is no be all end all solution to system sniping, and it's not really bad design that the devs haven't come up with an elegant solution that solves every scenario. I can't come up with one either. Though the fact that there isn't even an attempt at partial solutions or roadblocks against system sniping is a bit irritating.

I mean, I can't be the only one seeing a difference between 'fast building' an entire outpost from a system further back to piggyback from a chain of systems, and someone simply doing the last haul on someone else's system to snatch away the claim at the last second. You probably can't effectively deal with the former option without a delay that's so big that it actually inconveniences a lot of people (Since you're supposed to be allowed to use any system as your starting point - being bothered by this is unreasonable) but that doesn't mean that as a developer you can't at least try to remove the more egregious option.