I think it would be great to have a mining SLF. I was talking over with some friends multicrew mining. Imagine a t10 with seismic charges and mining lasers. The SLF could get into those tight places with the abrasion blaster while the t10 managed the limpets. Very responsive thrusters without much top speed would be great.
SLF equipped with abrasion and/or drill hardpoints
- Thread starter michaelconnally
- Start date
This would make mining pretty much hands off. I'm really not sure this is what FD want.
You mean Painite mining isn't already pretty much hands off.?
I am not quite convinced that what you are claiming would be even close to being true. I don't suppose that people are suggesting that the SLF would be piloted by an NPC and automatically locate and mine deposits on it's own.
On one hand an abbrasion blaster SLF could be piloted by an NPC and told to attack specific deposits/asteroids that the CMDR has specifically targeted and on another it would potentially allow multi-crew SLF pilots to better assist with mining. Then you can add the fact that deep core mining would be on the most part unchanged.
I find the claim you are making unfounded - I respectfully suggest that you provide the basis of your reasoning.
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Same as LTD - find rock, fire prospector, release 9 collectors and fire 4 lasers until rock is empty, watch money roll in - repeat.
Like most gameplay elements in ED there is a tendency for detractors to oversimplify the gameplay that is there.
The process of mining is no more or less interactive than other gameplay elements in ED - the problem with those that complain about or denegrate the process that is there is that the alternatives they are looking for is not better, just more grindy, annoying, and boring. Too much emphasis is on the process and that kind of emphasis is why we ended up with the screwed up exploration mechanics in 3.3.
Mining as of 3.3 on the other hand introduced more tools such as deep core mining missiles, and more precision based surface mining with the abrasion blaster, the mining laser is still an option too for those of us that were happy with that mechanic.
The addition of supplemental SLFs would allow for more hands-on participation in mining for multi-crewed SLF capable craft and leaves it open for Solo pilots of bigger craft to pilot a utility SLF and use the SLF for the more precision based surface mining work. It also means that SLF capable craft would not need to sacrifice a combat hard point for the abrasion blaster too.
Would such more utility focused SLFs make things less hands off? Nope - to claim that it would is demonstrating the same kind of wrong-headed "honk and you are done" mentality that ignored/dismissed the other parts of the legacy exploration process that were needlessly removed and replaced with grind that no-one was really advocating.
TL;DR adding utility-focused rather-than-combat-focused SLFs would not inherently make mining more or less hands off, it would just give miners more load out options.
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I have to admit, core mining is more engaging than laser mining, would it not be for that PWA that doesn't distinguish properly what has a core and what hasn't. I'd love to see a proper color distinction for cores: PINK! or white, anything but a shade of yellow that could or could not be a core.
I've done my share of subsurface mining - not worth it. Anything but cores are - other than just some variety - wasted time, if you want to min/max your time/profits. And let's be honest: Who goes mining for water or Bromelite or anything but Panite, LTDs and VOs?
I see the added value of SLF with abrasion blasters and would love to see something like that implemented. But for that we'd have to be able to customise the SLF to begin with.
I've done my share of subsurface mining - not worth it. Anything but cores are - other than just some variety - wasted time, if you want to min/max your time/profits. And let's be honest: Who goes mining for water or Bromelite or anything but Panite, LTDs and VOs?
I see the added value of SLF with abrasion blasters and would love to see something like that implemented. But for that we'd have to be able to customise the SLF to begin with.
Not necessary, it could be done as an SLF variant choice just like is currently possible. The downside would be that such an SLF would be next to useless in combat.
They would be natural candidates for a range of Lakon built SLFs.
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Also an SLF bay takes up quite a big slot too. Especially in laser mining, space is valuable. Core mining not to much, as you fill up your cargo much slower to begin with.
The SLF bay slot is not that big a sacrifice given the tactical advantage the current combat SLF variants can provide.
An abrasion blaster SLF would be great for core mining in ships that are too big to easily move inside the broken rocks, giving commanders the option of taking a medium ship (or one of the more compact larges, such as the clipper or T7) inside the rock and blasting them directly, or parking a T9/T10/Cutter outside and having the fighter go after the fragments. Wouldn't even need a crewmember, just tell the mothership to hold position.
SLF version of the gigantic asteroid munching ship* (that could eat an Anaconda), would be nice. One commander could blow up roids while other flies the SLF, just scooping up the chunks.
*Forgot the name, but there's a YouTube video where the commander flies an Anaconda into the ship's "mouth"
*Forgot the name, but there's a YouTube video where the commander flies an Anaconda into the ship's "mouth"
I see this idea pop up again every now and then. I would absolutely LOVE to see a SLF with abrasion blasters, it would give other players who are multicrewing another thing to do while mining.
Also, a SLF with a scooping capability like the one you mentioned would be very nice. It would probably be limited to a rather small amount of cargo (maybe something in the region of 10 cargo canisters or mining fragments) after which it would need to either dock with the mothership or drop its cargo near the mothership's cargo hatch.
Edit: I think I found the video you were talking about.
I want to say that they were called 'deep space dredgers' or something to that effect. I seem to remember another video of a player flying an imperial fighter into the mouth of a dredger and having it spin around at several hundred RPM.
Also, a SLF with a scooping capability like the one you mentioned would be very nice. It would probably be limited to a rather small amount of cargo (maybe something in the region of 10 cargo canisters or mining fragments) after which it would need to either dock with the mothership or drop its cargo near the mothership's cargo hatch.
Edit: I think I found the video you were talking about.
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A variation of suggestion comes around every other week. No news here. And on first glance, it also seems to be a good idea. Most people don't care and some don't even realize, what we would be giving up with this suggestion, though.
Mind you, the OP is about "abrasion and/or drill hardpoints". I am not certain what is meant with "drill". If you just refer to mining lasers then this is no big deal. Even the biggest ships can just bring a few mining lasers, point at a rock, let the collector limpets fly and profit.
But if we are speaking about core mining and "drill" hardpoint for some reason includes seismic charges, things turn around. For at the moment, this is perhaps the one activity in space, which also at least up to some degree rewards paying attention to your ships size. Not just on where you can dock, but while actually using the ship. I mean, any bigger ship can just carry everything required for core mining. But when placing the charges and especially when flying in between the parts of a cracked rock, having a smaller ship makes things much more enjoyable.
Yes, you might not be able to bring all the equipment required to win a full scale war when setting up a smaller ship for mining. But at the same time a smaller ship can make the job you actually want to do a bit more enjoyable. Considering that it's basically the very only thing in game, where the size of your ship can make a difference while actively flying the ship (so not related to parking or docking), I think it might actually be worth keeping it this way.
Mind you, the OP is about "abrasion and/or drill hardpoints". I am not certain what is meant with "drill". If you just refer to mining lasers then this is no big deal. Even the biggest ships can just bring a few mining lasers, point at a rock, let the collector limpets fly and profit.
But if we are speaking about core mining and "drill" hardpoint for some reason includes seismic charges, things turn around. For at the moment, this is perhaps the one activity in space, which also at least up to some degree rewards paying attention to your ships size. Not just on where you can dock, but while actually using the ship. I mean, any bigger ship can just carry everything required for core mining. But when placing the charges and especially when flying in between the parts of a cracked rock, having a smaller ship makes things much more enjoyable.
Yes, you might not be able to bring all the equipment required to win a full scale war when setting up a smaller ship for mining. But at the same time a smaller ship can make the job you actually want to do a bit more enjoyable. Considering that it's basically the very only thing in game, where the size of your ship can make a difference while actively flying the ship (so not related to parking or docking), I think it might actually be worth keeping it this way.
But how big is that tactical advantage when mining? Other than the odd pirate that spawns alongside the player in the instance, mining doesn't really require combat so it is pretty much a waste to load up on combat gear beyond a few basic self-defence weapons.
For a miner, that SLF bay slot means giving up cargo capacity or limpet controllers, which does impact on overall performance.
In terms of generally making SLFs with mining equipment, I am all for it as long as our crew members understand how to use them. At the moment, big ships do suffer from pretty poor scaling on mining enterprises, in part due to poor scaling on mining lasers but also the terrible scaling on limpet controllers, and adding in an NPC-capable SLF would help to resolve this issue.
A basic mining laser SLF would be able to function as an additional pair of lasers, although if they adopted the wing-style mechanics of asteroids being per ship it would help greatly as it would double potential yield from asteroids. This would be doubly so if it were capable of holding a few tonnes of cargo or it's own limpet reserve. At a basic skill level, a crew member would mostly fly around chipping off fragments for any asteroid it can find within telepresence range, while the more skilled ones would be much better at tracking down and focusing on the high value goods.
Alternatively, an abrasion blaster SLF would be follow the mothership around, blast any surface deposits it identifies nearby, but its biggest job would be to follow up on any core deposits the mothership cracks. This would allow the mothership to instead move straight onto the next core asteroid, leaving the SLF to mop up the freshly exposed deposits.
Having our NPC crew be capable of operating mining fighters would also be the perfect opportunity to introduce ranks other than combat, as mining obviously shouldn't scale with their combat rank but instead probably their trade rank.
The current range of combat-focused SLFs are valuable and often under estimated tool in the self-defence context - it is a disposable asset that can cause just enough trouble to make an aggressor ignoring it unwise. At a bare minimum it is an effective defensive decoy, and at best an effective offensive combat tool.
The addition of a range of utility-focused SLFs (inc. an abrasion blaster equipped one) would allow for a greater scope of utility for SLFs as a whole - extending the role fit to support activities other than just specifically combat.
The introduction of Personal Fleet Carriers that could carry alternate player ships on board may perhaps weaken the case for utility SLFs but would not completely eliminate the case for their introduction.
Ultimately, whether SLFs remain combat focused or not they still have value as (at least) defensive assets.