General / Off-Topic So... Do we have free will? :)

It can't really go nuclear. There are no nucleus in there, except for new arrivals.
Even in the inner regions of neutron stars, the particles are no longer bound in nuclei.

Black holes seem to go on as long as they are fed new matter. If not, they will slowly radiate away.
What happens to a black hole that radiates long enough to lose it's required mass, is an interesting question. Perhaps it pops back into a star? :D
I don't think the universe is old enough for anything like that to happen.

Black holes are strange to us, because they don't fit our perception of the world. We are used to thinking that stuff has volume. I reality, nothing probably has any.
A hydrogen atom is like an orange and golf ball on a football field. The rest is just space. The proton at the center is made of quarks, with mostly space between them. It wouldn't be a great surprise if we discovered that all matter is made of singularities bound by a forces in a mesh.
That would make black holes rather basic objects.
If i compare it to a water vortex, the pull and rotational forces are already extreme,
IF theoretically there was a giant whirlpool you got caught in, not the water but the rotational force would knock you out.

(referring to what you said)
So, if we assume the black hole is similar to a whirlpool(water vortex), spits out the torn mesh matter garbage, what would happen on the other end, i would assume the Black hole's gravity curve is mirrored on both sides, would the force

a) create new particles in the process (cause everything is kinetically charged) similar to the mechanic of the Large Hadron Collider?
b) come out at the other end, basically being turned into antimatter?
or c) won't be able to escape the pull of the black hole alltogether?

Without taking astrophysics into consideration, just from a mere logical standpoint, i would say the trail of matter is pulled through,
gets separated to the smallest possible denominator and once it exits, forms new matter. I don't think it vanishes completely, but leaves behind something similar of what a supernova excretes.

And i also totally second that bit about the black hole dying if it's not fed any matter. If you turn off the water in your shower, that little vortex that's so cool to watch, dies off too.
(far fetched analogies, i know, but that makes it easier to try and visualize the possible effects a black hole might have.)

But not even Stephen Hawking could come to a definitive answer, and he thought about all the angles pretty much every single day.

Sorry if i don't always use the right words or descriptions, i could express that much better in German,
i'm pretty good at English, but when it comes to physics or math,
or certain names that vary from language to language i'm reaching my limits.
So i might sound a little more stupid than i actually am. ;D
 
Those suns aren't stars either. One solar mass is a unit of measurement. The biggest observed black hole is about 17 billion solar masses.
I see: We use the mass of our own Sun, as a base line to work out the mass of other objects in space. We learn new things every day. Thanks.

So how did they work out the mass of something like a black hole? I mean, technically we can't see them, only imagine how big they are etc.. Yes I know that they used multiple telescopes to get that image about a month ago, but that was 'generated'.

Err... Maybe we should start this up in the Astronomy threads.
 
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The event horizon is not based on the pulling power of a Black hole its self, (well it is sort of). The Event Horizon must be based on the possible escape velocity of the object approaching it. Therefore, the 'event horizon', is varied.

Example: Earth requires an escape velocity of proximately 43.000kph, so if anything passing within the Earth's gravitational pull, would have to be travelling faster than 43.000kph, to pass by and escape. Anything travelling slower, would be drawn downwards and either burn up, or hit the ground. This maybe a simplified example, but then I am a simpleton myself.

Singularities: Is just another one of those 'infinite theories'; they look good on paper, but the numbers have been taken to impossible extremes.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Even horizon is a radius where escape velocity would equal speed of light. But that just depends on the mass and the fact that this mass itself has smaller radius. That's what Schwartzchild radius is. But we don't KNOW it's a singularity. It might as well be simply an object that has actual radius. It's just smaller than the Schwartzchild radius. :)

edit: But we are again off topic, I'm afraid. :LOL:
It's much more plasant off topic than the last one but still...
 
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If i compare it to a water vortex, the pull and rotational forces are already extreme,
IF theoretically there was a giant whirlpool you got caught in, not the water but the rotational force would knock you out.

(referring to what you said)
So, if we assume the black hole is similar to a whirlpool(water vortex), spits out the torn mesh matter garbage, what would happen on the other end, i would assume the Black hole's gravity curve is mirrored on both sides, would the force

a) create new particles in the process (cause everything is kinetically charged) similar to the mechanic of the Large Hadron Collider?
b) come out at the other end, basically being turned into antimatter?
or c) won't be able to escape the pull of the black hole alltogether?

Without taking astrophysics into consideration, just from a mere logical standpoint, i would say the trail of matter is pulled through,
gets separated to the smallest possible denominator and once it exits, forms new matter. I don't think it vanishes completely, but leaves behind something similar of what a supernova excretes.

And i also totally second that bit about the black hole dying if it's not fed any matter. If you turn off the water in your shower, that little vortex that's so cool to watch, dies off too.
(far fetched analogies, i know, but that makes it easier to try and visualize the possible effects a black hole might have.)

But not even Stephen Hawking could come to a definitive answer, and he thought about all the angles pretty much every single day.

Sorry if i don't always use the right words or descriptions, i could express that much better in German,
i'm pretty good at English, but when it comes to physics or math,
or certain names that vary from language to language i'm reaching my limits.
So i might sound a little more stupid than i actually am. ;D
Don't worry about language. None of us (that I know of) are real physicists or cosmologists. Personally I'm just a huge physics fan and all my knowledge comes from watching a lot of vids and reading popular books. :LOL:
 
Ooooh, i just had one of these wise moments (when you want to pad yourself for thinking you're real smart :))

I'd say, free will is what determines the difference between living organisms and material things.
Hence why it's so hard to incorporate into mathematical equasions.
Math is great for calculating the odds, and explaining (to anyone who gets it, anyways) how the world around us works.
But math often comes to its limits when it's down to explaining why Johnny went for Vanilla ice cream instead of the vegetable salad.
 
Ooooh, i just had one of these wise moments (when you want to pad yourself for thinking you're real smart :))

I'd say, free will is what determines the difference between living organisms and material things.
Hence why it's so hard to incorporate into mathematical equasions.
Math is great for calculating the odds, and explaining (to anyone who gets it, anyways) how the world around us works.
But math often comes to its limits when it's down to explaining why Johnny went for Vanilla ice cream instead of the vegetable salad.
Are you suggesting that free will makes things unpredictable? gasps
:)
In that case it could be an emergent property of entropy.
Because that's what living organisms are good for - shifting entropy back and forth locally.
 
Are you suggesting that free will makes things unpredictable? gasps
:)
In that case it could be an emergent property of entropy.
Because that's what living organisms are good for - shifting entropy back and forth locally.
I'm saying, if there was no free will, you could easily calculate and predict any person's next move.
What you CAN calculate is the consequence of a decision.

Cause if Johnny had gone for the veggie salad, he might not have had such high sugar levels afterwards,
and when his friends later suggested to jump off that cliff, his consequential lack of euphoria might have let a bit more common sense come through.
But he's all cheery and euphoric thanks to all the sugar
And if Johnny had decided to listen a bit more during Physics class, while they were studying the Newon laws, he also might have known
jumping from that height might be quite lethal. His friends, though, are already solving some equasions to find out what his maximum velocity would be.



Sinister (but deep) analogy, i know, but i'm not in the best mood right now, also something i didn't anticipate a few hours ago.
And i wish, when it comes to depression and all that, there was a free choice. To just shake it off.
Sometimes you're a slave to your own emotions. ;)
 
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I'm saying, if there was no free will, you could easily calculate and predict any person's next move.
What you CAN calculate is the consequence of a decision.

Cause if Johnny had gone for the veggie salad, he might not have had such high sugar levels afterwards,
and when his friends later suggested to jump off that cliff, his consequential lack of euphoria might have let a bit more common sense come through.
But he's all cheery and euphoric thanks to all the sugar
And if Johnny had decided to listen a bit more during Physics class, while they were studying the Newon laws, he also might have known
jumping from that height might be quite lethal. His friends, though, are already solving some equasions to find out what his maximum velocity would be.



Sinister (but deep) analogy, i know, but i'm not in the best mood right now, also something i didn't anticipate a few hours ago.
And i wish, when it comes to depression and all that, there was a free choice. To just shake it off.
Sometimes you're a slave to your own emotions. ;)
Sometimes? I'd say always!
What human psyche is, is basically a series of chemical reactions. Some stimulae give positive feedback, some give negative feedback and the brain rewires itself accordingly. So I'd dare say emotions (chemistry of hormones) shape our brains, our personality and our lives.
 
That's an interesting thought.
Technically blck holes ARE basic objects. They are defined by only two quantities - mass and spin. There is of course the third, emergent property - the radius of the event horizon, but that is not a defining physical property per se.
And charge (I presume by "spin" you meant angular momentum).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-hair_theorem
 
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Only if you had enough information and only if there weren't random variables that could not be accounted for.

Random chance doesn't equal free-will, even if it's non-deterministic.
Doesn't that depend on the angle, though?

For the person who makes the move(or not) it would be free will.

To the observer it's random chance.

No?
 
Doesn't that depend on the angle, though?

For the person who makes the move(or not) it would be free will.

To the observer it's random chance.

No?
I don't think the first-person perspective is evidence for anything in this case.

I perceive myriad of choices in each and every waking moment. However, the fundamental workings of my decision making processes are not fully transparent to me, no matter how introspective I get, and I will likely never be able to account for all possible internal or external biases.

It's certainly possible to be unaware of manipulation.
 
I'm saying, if there was no free will, you could easily calculate and predict any person's next move.
What you CAN calculate is the consequence of a decision.

Cause if Johnny had gone for the veggie salad, he might not have had such high sugar levels afterwards,
and when his friends later suggested to jump off that cliff, his consequential lack of euphoria might have let a bit more common sense come through.
But he's all cheery and euphoric thanks to all the sugar
And if Johnny had decided to listen a bit more during Physics class, while they were studying the Newon laws, he also might have known
jumping from that height might be quite lethal. His friends, though, are already solving some equasions to find out what his maximum velocity would be.



Sinister (but deep) analogy, i know, but i'm not in the best mood right now, also something i didn't anticipate a few hours ago.
And i wish, when it comes to depression and all that, there was a free choice. To just shake it off.
Sometimes you're a slave to your own emotions. ;)
True depression can't be reasoned with. Eat and drink healthy, and talk to a friend or loved one about positive stuff until the storm passes.
 
True depression can't be reasoned with. Eat and drink healthy, and talk to a friend or loved one about positive stuff until the storm passes.
With running the risk of derailing the thread i'll quickly answer this:
I lost most of my friends after my twins died (in 2008),
and when 2 years and 4 years 8respectively) after that both my parents suffered from cancer and Parkinson's/PSP respectively,
i stopped caring about even trying to make new ones.
Besides, you'd wonder how quickly these friends vanish when you're going through hell.
Even the ones who tried to hang on for a while, and they get my respect for that (i mean that)

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
Kurt Cobain
(my paranoia remark was a joke, just so no one thinks i actually meant that)

Kurt Cobain, a true genius with a temper.
Talent always comes with a very high price,
trust me i know what it means, if there's anything i have plenty of, it's talent.
And i can relate why he made his choice.
Me, i still want to kick a few behinds before i go,
and i don't think i would ever make that choice,
as life's a lightray passing through a wormhole,
you blink once and half your life's is behind you,
making you wonder were you left it.
No need to fasten it up even more.



Anyhow, sorry
back on topic
 
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