Powerplay So, what are we going to do about PowerPlay

[Calrissian]

You're the one who called it Game of Thrones.

Don't make a parallel if you're not going to acknowledge points made by others within the parallel you provided.

I have read your posts, and have decided you know very little about either Power Play or actual armed conflict. Or Game of Thrones.

Power Play determines supremacy mostly through armed conflict. Armed conflict in expansion CZs (Military Strikes, Security Operations, Crime Sweeps, etc.) causes contested systems to flip superpowers. Losing a system results in loss of command capital, making further expansion less likely. Strip enough systems and their CC and you'll cause unfortified control systems of that superpower to panic (turmoil).

But if players fortify control systems before conflict occurs by flying Powerplay cargo in fortification runs for merits, those reinforced systems have a stronger base pool of resources (and more CC) from which to produce forces and fight. Fortified systems cannot be thrown into turmoil. Future war costs are covered. A failed expansion does not result in a death spiral. Logistics makes fighting possible.

Jon Snow is going to have no success against the Night King unless thousands of miners, and spinners, and cart drivers, blacksmiths and farmers can bring him dragonglass, weapons, food, and warm clothes. Without those four things, his army is irrelevant.

Without Cutters and T-6s carrying Powerplay supplies, and the CC this insures, a Kumo Crew Corvette in a Hudson Security Operation might be irrelevant, too.

It's a cargo hauling endeavor. Not one of Forces for conquest and you still didn't comprehend what I'm saying. Please, start from the beginning.

 

[The New Number Two]

It's a cargo hauling endeavor. Not one of Forces for conquest and you still didn't comprehend what I'm saying. Please, start from the beginning.

I did. You feel that between fighting strength and logistics or trade, logistics and trade should obviously be the weaker avenue to dominance.

Tell me, in real life- which nations did China invade to gain control of more than 97% of the world's rare earth mineral resources?

And how did the M4 Sherman ever beat a Tiger II?

If your point is "this is boring in a video game", or "I want better rewards", just say so. And thousands of CMDRS will disagree with you (with the first one, anyway. I agree with the second.)

 

[The New Number Two]

Here are some of my thoughts on how I'd like to see PP improved after 2.4, from another thread:

I was a Hudson goon from week two of playing until about six months ago, mostly because you start the game in Federation space.

I quit because there didn't feel like any reason to stay Federal, especially since I had long since stretched my jump range into all corners of the galaxy in the meantime. But I like Powerplay, and I missed it, so after hopping around and collecting weapons (APAs and Packhounds are especially tasty), I found a new home in the Empire with ALD. I like the bounty bonus and actively maintain rank by participating in expansion efforts.

But like you, I don't see the big benefit.

I'm still not convinced there's incentive enough to keep basking (let alone encourage new players to bask along), so here is my PP endgame wishlist (in addition to wishing Her Imperious Majesty would grant me a land title in Malaikudi. I'm a Prince, for crying out loud.) :

1. FIX THE MONEY. 50 million for Rank 5 seemed like a lot when I was new, but I've never bothered to go for it. 10,000 merits is a stupid threshold for an amount of money I can make in two days of a Bounty CG. Payouts should be adjusted, PP supply hauling should be compensated with decent pay, and Powerplay combat should pay an actual value slightly ABOVE civil war CZ combat, instead of the pittance it offers now.

On top of this, there should be a proper title attached to each rank and a rank decal for your ship. Maybe you could make these conditional on maintaining the rank. You go from Rank 4 to Rank 2, you lose access to Decal 4 and have 2 only. Quit LYR altogether, for example, and lose his decal altogether. Which brings me to...

2. APPROPRIATE SKINS AND DECALS. The free PP decals available now are a brilliant gift, but take it further. Make a standard Naval skin for your superpower available at week 4, possibly conditional upon service. Add new faction-themed Ace skins for exceptional service or participation in campaigns. Introduce campaign ribbons, and have a ribbon rack decal that displays as a ship nameplate. Make squadron decals featuring dangerous animals, lightning bolts, heraldry, etc. available when you increase rep with a superpower minor faction.

3. MAKE ALL PP REWARD MODULES IN ALL SIZES. I would love a Class 1 Packhound launcher as much as a Class 3 Pacifier Cannon*. In fact, the Pacifier is a great example of what's wrong with PP weapons in general.

I have an all-frag FAS. All four frags- 2x class 2, and 2x class 3- are modded for double shot, which greatly ups DPS, but shortens range. Pacifiers have a built-in range increase, which makes them ideal candidates for the Double shot mod.

But what happens when I want Pacifiers on my FAS? I wind up with two extremely short range large slot shotguns, and two longer-range medium Pacifiers, which makes them hard to coordinate at anything longer than point-blank range, and wastes ammo for the big guns if I group fire all four.

So in the end, Pacifiers are neat, but kind of worthless. Maybe on an FDL or Gunship, otherwise...

Let me buy regular Class 2 Pacifiers at Week 4, but at Week 6, drop a message that says "President Hudson thanks you for your continuing loyalty. Class 1 Pacifiers​ are now available from Federal Quartermasters." Class 3 at week 8. Class 4 at week 10.

This would also get FD to finally create class 3 and 4 rails, torps and missiles, which are still unexplainably missing. A Class 4 Imperial Hammer needs to happen for my Cutter. And I would love an all-Pacifier FAS. Which would make me return to Federal space for quite some time to do #4:

4. REWARD ROLE PLAY IN POWERPLAY. Reduce my merits if I have the poor taste to show up to a Crime Sweep in my Federal Corvette, which I do, weekly. Increase them slightly for hauling Garrison Supplies in a Cutter, as Her Magnificence commands. Give me 5 free merits for every week I sport an Eagle on my flight suit's shoulder, and 5 for having the proper livery displayed on my ship. Basking in Her glory is rewarded, but merely pretending to care is punished.

* totally forgot that Pacifier frags ARE Class 3 weapons. But I think the point is still valid.

 

[Calrissian]

I did. You feel that between fighting strength and logistics or trade, logistics and trade should obviously be the weaker avenue to dominance.

Tell me, in real life- which nations did China invade to gain control of more than 97% of the world's rare earth mineral resources?

And how did the M4 Sherman ever beat a Tiger !!?

If your point is "this is boring in a video game", or "I want better rewards", just say so. And thousands of CMDRS will disagree with you (with the first one, anyway. I agree with the second.)

Thank you.

China doesn't need to expand to gain capitol like the powers need to in PowerPlay.

The Sherman beat the Tiger in numbers.

I see where your getting at but your still missing my point. Tanks are Forces. Territory was taken and defended with Forces. In Elite Dangerous, territory isn't taken or defended with Forces. It's done so with the TRANSPORT of propaganda. CNN doesn't run any nations that I'm aware of. The movement of materials SHOULD be for the support of FORCES. Propaganda effects influence but territory should be taken, not manipulated to favor.

I for one think that this would make the game more rewarding, more immersive, and finally give the Federal Dropship a role intending of its' name.

 

[The New Number Two]

Thank you.

China doesn't need to expand to gain capitol like the powers need to in PowerPlay.

The Sherman beat the Tiger in numbers.

I see where your getting at but your still missing my point. Tanks are Forces. Territory was taken and defended with Forces. In Elite Dangerous, territory isn't taken or defended with Forces. It's done so with the TRANSPORT of propaganda. CNN doesn't run any nations that I'm aware of. The movement of materials SHOULD be for the support of FORCES. Propaganda effects influence but territory should be taken, not manipulated to favor.

I for one think that this would make the game more rewarding, more immersive, and finally give the Federal Dropship a role intending of its' name.

China buys and sells goods and promises, just like the Alliance. And the Allies won WWII by industrializing entire Nations and overwhelming the Axis powers, who (in Germany's case) had stretched their own supply lines too thin and lost most of their own parts and ammo manufacturing.


Territory IS taken with forces by most powers in Elite.

Propaganda is part of the preparation stage for systems into which Pranav Antal wants to expand, but it's not what takes the system. Utopia takes systems by sending in agitator forces against System Resistance forces in Violent Protests- combat zones in the barest minimal coat of paint.

Arrissa Lavigny-Duval purges the ranks of expansion system loyalists with Imperial forces in Crime Sweeps. Hudson takes systems by force in Military Strikes and defends against incursion in Security Operations. Yuri Grom starts uprisings and supports them with his fleet. DeLaine pirates the crap out of a system. Etc.

I get that Duval, Winters, LYR and the Alliance don't expand by force, but the point is that there are many ways to acquire land rights and make neighbors want to join you. Taking them by force is only one. The game has to appeal to everyone.

Li buys whole planets. Mahon promises them wealth and self-determination. The blue princess makes cartoon hearts fly out of everyone's eyes. Nobody cares about Zemina Torval.

You want action, but don't get it? Join somebody else. A Fed, two Imperials, and three Independents are battle-cry-whooping warmongers. There's plenty of action.

You have to remember that the Federation was the original space nation, followed by the Empire. Everybody else is chipping away at their pie. The continuing Federal/ Imp standoff has allowed more nations to push in from the edges. The Alliance gathers up indie systems by staying out of the conflicts, promising prosperity while storms rage elsewhere. This is pretty realistic, and largely what happened to topple the Romans (although they retained a lot of power by becoming the church, but I digress).

I think Power Play does a great job of simulating a vast and diverse galaxy of political confrontation. The problems are that it's not as lucrative as it should be, and what it does to shape the galaxy isn't always obvious. I wish that what it does for the whole game were more visible. I think that's what most people (and you) are hoping for, too.

I do think they can fix it.

And yeah, I get that you want another layer of actual combatants, but be honest- How likely is that to happen? They can't put NPCs in SRVs yet.

 

[Calrissian]

China buys and sells goods and promises, just like the Alliance. And the Allies won WWII by industrializing entire Nations and overwhelming the Axis powers, who (in Germany's case) had stretched their own supply lines too thin and lost most of their own parts and ammo manufacturing.


Territory IS taken with forces by most powers in Elite.

Propaganda is part of the preparation stage for systems into which Pranav Antal wants to expand, but it's not what takes the system. Utopia takes systems by sending in agitator forces against System Resistance forces in Violent Protests- combat zones in the barest minimal coat of paint.

Arrissa Lavigny-Duval purges the ranks of expansion system loyalists with Imperial forces in Crime Sweeps. Hudson takes systems by force in Military Strikes and defends against incursion in Security Operations. Yuri Grom starts uprisings and supports them with his fleet. DeLaine pirates the crap out of a system. Etc.

I get that Duval, Winters, LYR and the Alliance don't expand by force, but the point is that there are many ways to acquire land rights and make neighbors want to join you. Taking them by force is only one. The game has to appeal to everyone.

Li buys whole planets. Mahon promises them wealth and self-determination. The blue princess makes cartoon hearts fly out of everyone's eyes. Nobody cares about Zemina Torval.

You want action, but don't get it? Join somebody else. A Fed, two Imperials, and three Independents are battle-cry-whooping warmongers. There's plenty of action.

You have to remember that the Federation was the original space nation, followed by the Empire. Everybody else is chipping away at their pie. The continuing Federal/ Imp standoff has allowed more nations to push in from the edges. The Alliance gathers up indie systems by staying out of the conflicts, promising prosperity while storms rage elsewhere. This is pretty realistic, and largely what happened to topple the Romans (although they retained a lot of power by becoming the church, but I digress).

I think Power Play does a great job of simulating a vast and diverse galaxy of political confrontation. The problems are that it's not as lucrative as it should be, and what it does to shape the galaxy isn't always obvious. I wish that what it does for the whole game were more visible. I think that's what most people (and you) are hoping for, too.

I do think they can fix it.

And yeah, I get that you want another layer of actual combatants, but be honest- How likely is that to happen? They can't put NPCs in SRVs yet.

I think PowerPlay does a terrible job of expressing realistic circumstances and immersive gameplay. Economic strength is not taking and holding territory.. The Lize and how expansive the Alliance is as well as the number of the player base that ignores the Mahon power because they are,"boring." is a testament that the current system is something of a failure.

Players like fighting for the Federation and the Imperial powers because they engage one another instead of playing peek-a-boo or hiding in SOLO mode like the Mahon bunch does. Realistically there is no way powers with access to capital ships as part of their navies would be less of a power to one that doesn't have one when said powers could exert their military supremacy.

Powerplay should include a system of pledge voting to assault a system with every voter's name to be recognized! If approved, the number of CC's of the system to be assaulted should be forfeit by the Attacker with 50 more for every capital ship committed to the assault. If the defender chooses to come to the system's defense, then they must spend the CC worth of the system pls 50 for every capitol ship they want to send to it's defense. If the attacker for defender ooses the battle then a random number of aligned minor factions go BUST equal to the total cost of CC's spent to initiate the assault and spent on defense Starting with ones that control systems.

Troops: CC need to also be spent on Troop pools. This would simulate the recruitment and training of soldiers and maintenance of their facilities. This pool cannot exceed 10% of the total population. Example. A system with a population of 2 million can have a troop pool of up to 200000. Militia is equal to half the population and fight at 1/4 strength. A defense force requires supply and fight at 1/2 strength and are 24 in number per 10,000 population. Every troop or soldier fights at a strength of 1. The order of attrition for defenders is defense force, troops, then militia. Attackers only have troops. Players have to move and defend troop carriers. This goes on for the same time conflict zones run or until the attackers or defender stop supplying troops or all the defenders are killed.

This would add immersion, the use of troop carriers and Dropships, take territory through combat, and have a way to express logistic support.

 

[Martin Schou]

If approved, the number of CC's of the system to be assaulted should be forfeit by the Attacker with 50 more for every capital ship committed to the assault. If the defender chooses to come to the system's defense, then they must spend the CC worth of the system pls 50 for every capitol ship they want to send to it's defence.

Brilliant. You've just given a massive advantage to six powers and given the finger to five powers. Do you have the slightest idea of how to balance out game rules?

 

[Cucco-Master]

You keep talking about (ground) troops. Why would we need these in a game like Elite, which is about space? Wars are fought with ships and systems are taken by controlling their shipping lanes. The only thing we could possibly need troops for in a game like Elite would be so we had to transport them to planets, keep them supplied with weapons, ammo and other stuff they might need - which is exactly the layer of logistics which you don't want to be such an important aspect of pp as it currently is. And it's exactly what we already have now - just without little npc soldiers running around on a planet without any effect other being a visual gimmick (that drains our processing power). Elite is a flight sim (sorta), not a Battlefield-Command&Conquer mix.

 

[Calrissian]

Brilliant. You've just given a massive advantage to six powers and given the finger to five powers. Do you have the slightest idea of how to balance out game rules?

Did you not see the additional cost with the use of a capital ship or the boost in numbers for defenders? Besides, since the Alliance is so buddy-buddy with the Thargoids, perhaps Frontier would have Thargoid ships accessible for Mahon.

The capital ships were put in place for the Federation and Empire. It's about time they got put to constructive use IMO. Especially considering that they fly around now.

 

[Calrissian]

You keep talking about (ground) troops. Why would we need these in a game like Elite, which is about space? Wars are fought with ships and systems are taken by controlling their shipping lanes. The only thing we could possibly need troops for in a game like Elite would be so we had to transport them to planets, keep them supplied with weapons, ammo and other stuff they might need - which is exactly the layer of logistics which you don't want to be such an important aspect of pp as it currently is. And it's exactly what we already have now - just without little npc soldiers running around on a planet without any effect other being a visual gimmick (that drains our processing power). Elite is a flight sim (sorta), not a Battlefield-Command&Conquer mix.

NO. You are saying (ground) troops. I said TROOPS as the designation for forces to take outpost and bases. IMO it wouldn't be fair for those who chose not to buy Horizons to not be able to participate. Although the idea could be extended to planetoid bases.

Elite is a flight-sim and a sandbox WORLD. I don't understand how you relate a real time strategy game to ANYTHING I've suggested here, but your opinion is your opinion.

It's about time Frontier made it so that the Federal Dropship has a clear function. Orca's, Beluga Liners, and Dolphins could now become troop transports. With the addition of a magnetic docking module to insert troops onto outposts and bases.

 

[Cucco-Master]

Ok. So you want troops which can be transported by dropships and modified passenger liners, but you don't want them to be on the ground, therefore in space. So jetpack rocketeers it is then as nothing else could possibly fit your entire description. Excuse me for my previous logic failure *chuckles*

Edit: Wait, think I got it now. You only want to drop them on orbital stations, not planets and that's why you feel offended by my "ground" troops assumption. But how would it make a difference, game play-wise, if they run around on a planetary surface or inside space stations? The major star ports even have sections that are supposed to emulate planetary environments ... In the end, I would transport troops instead of propaganda materials, basically a different "commodity" with a different name. That makes powerplay better why?

 

[Calrissian]

Ok. So you want troops which can be transported by dropships and modified passenger liners, but you don't want them to be on the ground, therefore in space. So jetpack rocketeers it is then as nothing else could possibly fit your entire description. Excuse me for my previous logic failure *chuckles*

Edit: Wait, think I got it now. You only want to drop them on orbital stations, not planets and that's why you feel offended by my "ground" troops assumption. But how would it make a difference, game play-wise, if they run around on a planetary surface or inside space stations? The major star ports even have sections that are supposed to emulate planetary environments ... In the end, I would transport troops instead of propaganda materials, basically a different "commodity" with a different name. That makes powerplay better why?

Reading is fundamental bro. Lol. You make a good argument in favor of Star Citizen.

 

[Cucco-Master]

Reading is fundamental bro.

Another one ... Ok, you only said you wanted to deploy troops on outposts and bases. You know, bases as in planetary bases, that's what most people would assume here. Show me one instance of "stations" or "star ports" in your latest posts and I'll admit I can't read. Properly expressing yourself is fundamental as well.

Anyway, this is degenerating into a series of personal attacks, so I'll leave it here

 

[Justinian Octavius]

I think just some realistic tweaks that make it feel more integrated into the main game would be nice atm. However, tbh, I'm inclined to think Frontier should hire someone to take control of Powerplay and integrate it into the main story narrative, or produce custom story lines; eg Frontier decides which systems are to be targeted via Community Goals, Missions, BGS, whatever, for Prep, Expansion, Undermining and then the Players decide through their actions what happens. Don't know if it actually would be better, but I feel it would be and certainly more engaging for more Players than I suspect the current free for all is.

Neowave

 

[Calrissian]

Another one ... Ok, you only said you wanted to deploy troops on outposts and bases. You know, bases as in planetary bases, that's what most people would assume here. Show me one instance of "stations" or "star ports" in your latest posts and I'll admit I can't read. Properly expressing yourself is fundamental as well.

Anyway, this is degenerating into a series of personal attacks, so I'll leave it here

Ok. I apologize bro. That was in poor taste.

Other people got it and you didn't so I thought you were just being difficult. Yes, use the player ships to move troops to take over installations. Extended to planetary bases if one owns the Horizons expansion and there are no outposts or stations around. This is to ensure that non-Horizons owners still have a maximal influence and impact on events for the power they are pledged to.

I would even go further as to establish the number of defenders at an installation to be equatable to the influence of the minor faction in control of the facility and the total population.

Example. It has been voted by pledges of Patreas that they want to assault a Mahon system with a population of 20,000. The controlling faction there has 50% influence. 50% equates to 10000 influenced people, a militia force of 5000, and a defense force of 24. Patreas folks then know they need to move 1263 troops to take over the outpost, provided the Mahon players don't get in reinforcements. (5000/4=1250 24/2=12 +1 to secure victory) That's roughly 7 to 10 Beluga Liner trips or Beluga Liners given the use of the current Economy Passenger Modules.

Things are still being hauled but it's now simulated troops. Players have to setup advanced wings and cover for the troop transport players. The transports will need critical time to dock and deploy the transports' force compliment. Capital ships can be added by the Federal and Imperials powers but at a considerable cost in CC. If Mahon is buddies with the Thargoids, then they work the same way as the other capital ships.

Boom! Territory is taken by forces in direct conflict and not manipulated as the current system is.

 

[Calrissian]

I think just some realistic tweaks that make it feel more integrated into the main game would be nice atm. However, tbh, I'm inclined to think Frontier should hire someone to take control of Powerplay and integrate it into the main story narrative, or produce custom story lines; eg Frontier decides which systems are to be targeted via Community Goals, Missions, BGS, whatever, for Prep, Expansion, Undermining and then the Players decide through their actions what happens. Don't know if it actually would be better, but I feel it would be and certainly more engaging for more Players than I suspect the current free for all is.

Neowave

I agree with you. This game needs more meat! I for one just think there's way too much filling of cargo holds when territory is historically taken with FORCES. Again, The Federation and the Imperial powers have access to capital ships and never have a say in their use. The Federal Dropship is more like the Federal Dropcargo ship. That ship has been available for players since the start of all this and it still doesn't have a role befit of its' name!

C0c%-up

 

[Calrissian]

PP is about politics, war/combat is only one aspect of it. Don't be so narrow minded.

And here I think it's YOU that has a complete lack of vision. HUMPH. Go figure.

 

[Ben Ryder]

There are a few people who take PP seriously, some obsessively so. The problem is they are essentially playing a completely different game to the rest of us.

Yes they are playing the base game and more on top.

 

[Rubbernuke]

When done properly PP is end game stuff, as you then have to really use big beefy ships to the max. It gives you a reason to fly them about as otherwise what's the point of them?

It is different to the main game as it adds a layer of co-op strategy, and since the motivation for many is selfish (modules etc) PP falls down here.

 

[Winterwalker]

For me PP is somewhat inaccessible. The game descriptions, for how CC is distrubuted and earned is all well and good if you're into the detailed game, and I think there's something in it but at the moment all those numbers are intimidating. For more casual players, if PP generated introductory missions or allowed group players to post them somewhere obvious then a new power member could continue to fly 'while' the detail of CC distribution / politics seeps in. Once you have the basic ideas (take these pamplets to our control system y before power x takes over because ..) then you can step up to suggesting strategic decsions.

I do like how PP works as alternative to the main BGS however some support .. eg. a password protected forum area (eg. with a password that rolls over weekly, and visible in-game only to players signed up to each power) would allow some centralisation of information sharing between group members. Although people have done a good job in organising such things for themselves, if I'm a newcomer I wouldn't have any idea where to find it .. and powerplay looks like gobbledegook.