Elite / Frontier Some news on Elite 4 (and the Outsider)

It is easy - you are fans and so rule #1 applies: Thou shall buy all possible editions in all possible languages - including the £10.000.000,00 special edition supplied in a box of purest gold and comes with a meteor fragment (*).

Anyway, Frontier will always do what it can to supply the best interface for each platform we release on. I think a case in point actually is Thrillville: Off the Rails where we made good use of the capabilities of the Wii even though it was kind of unique in its control-scheme compared to the other platforms that we released the game upon.

After that it is just personal opinions. For what it is worth mine is to go with the Xbox 360 version of as many games as possible. Why? Because I stick the disc in the drive and it works, compared to the countless of hours I have spent tracking down driver-issues in PC games.

Crap.. crap crap crap..

Why in the world would a console platform possibly be acceptable for a game which is supposed to be as deep as the Elite series has always been??

Driver issues??? Are you kidding me? That's gotta be nonsense, if you can't handle drivers and configuration in your own computer, you probably won't even appreciate, much less like, Elite 4.. unless.. it's dumbed down... I guess.

Also, are we to believe E4 will really be comparable to ...Thrillville? I'm sure there are plenty of games which translate well onto PC and consoles, but it's a matter of fact, not opinion, that some games are way better suited for a PC, but it's not about that ultimately, is it? It's about money.

E2F and FFE were really very left handed games, which didn't have a broad appeal like doom or world of warcrack. Hell, even for 1993, the graphics for FFE were behind. Yet the people who got it, really got it, and loved those games for vast oceans of deep space fiction they were.. It was elite fans who went to the extent of taking over a usenet group, of all things. ...driver issues, indeed.

Aiming for the big blockbuster smash hit of the century with Elite 4 will, in fact, require the game to be less than what it would be if it wasn't being made to maximize profit. Will this sorely disappoint about half the elite fans that are still fanatical today? Certainly money doesn't care about that I've been an elite fan since the first one I played as a teenager on the commodore 64, nor that I've followed alt.fan.elite since before even AOL had internet access. Money cares about fresh influxes and happy investors/shareholders.

Do I think it shouldn't be about money? Now that is the matter of opinion, I suppose. My opinion is; labors of love stand a better chance of being great to those that would appreciate them, but businesses don't run on Love(tm), so there's no reason to expect E4 of not being a labor of commerce, like everything else, sadly. It would be more revolutionary for me to believe a game development house wanted to make a game not everybody would like, even though those who did like it, would love it.

Yah, I sound like a cynical crank I guess, whatever.. It's great to have media out in the wild about E4. It's great to know it's not actually dead.. It's great to see that the mother of all space flight sims might still see the light of day someday.. It's disheartening to know my expectations shouldn't be so high though.

Hell, some of us still have to switch from hoping to praying it works under WINE, since it's now clear there'll be no Linux support, and probably active antagonism to attempts to make it work. (Not to mention the crap I'll get for even just saying the "L" word.) Fun.

Cheers,
 
Crap.. crap crap crap..

Why in the world would a console platform possibly be acceptable for a game which is supposed to be as deep as the Elite series has always been??

Driver issues??? Are you kidding me? That's gotta be nonsense, if you can't handle drivers and configuration in your own computer, you probably won't even appreciate, much less like, Elite 4.. unless.. it's dumbed down... I guess.

Oh boy ... Are you asking for it.
Not only do employees of Frontier (like Smars) know what they are talking about, but a few others who post on here are also writing their own games / software.

Now I make no claim to know anything about programming (I am a self confessed programming idiot), but even I know that for anyone in the PC industry to do anything they have to take into account thousands of different hardware and software. (have you seen how many files you have on your computer after a fresh install of the os ?)

If we all used the same single hardware / software combination then your statement I quoted above would be valid, but you had better be ready for some comments from those who know what they are talking about.

EDIT : That above quote could be aimed at those who do go for console games because they can't handle installing PC games.
Now that i've read it again I can see the difference.

Aiming for the big blockbuster smash hit of the century with Elite 4 will, in fact, require the game to be less than what it would be if it wasn't being made to maximize profit. Will this sorely disappoint about half the elite fans that are still fanatical today? Certainly money doesn't care about that I've been an elite fan since the first one I played as a teenager on the commodore 64, nor that I've followed alt.fan.elite since before even AOL had internet access. Money cares about fresh influxes and happy investors/shareholders.

Do I think it shouldn't be about money? Now that is the matter of opinion, I suppose. My opinion is; labors of love stand a better chance of being great to those that would appreciate them, but businesses don't run on Love(tm), so there's no reason to expect E4 of not being a labor of commerce, like everything else, sadly. It would be more revolutionary for me to believe a game development house wanted to make a game not everybody would like, even though those who did like it, would love it.

Yah, I sound like a cynical crank I guess, whatever.. It's great to have media out in the wild about E4. It's great to know it's not actually dead.. It's great to see that the mother of all space flight sims might still see the light of day someday.. It's disheartening to know my expectations shouldn't be so high though.

All I can say is that whatever you do in life you can never please everybody.
How did it go .. "you can please some of the people some of the time ... " etc
I don't expect Frontier to make a game to please everyone, but i'm sure David will not make a game he's not happy with
(David, Mr Braben, sir, you are welcome to jump in and speak for yourself and correct me !).

Hell, some of us still have to switch from hoping to praying it works under WINE, since it's now clear there'll be no Linux support, and probably active antagonism to attempts to make it work. (Not to mention the crap I'll get for even just saying the "L" word.) Fun.

Cheers,

I'd be interested to know where you heard about no Linux support, maybe someone at Frontier could elaborate ?

I'm sorry if I sound really critical of your post, but maybe me saying this might head off others who could really have a go at you.
Don't lose faith in Elite IV just yet. Wait until it's released and then pass judgment on it.
 
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Driver issues??? Are you kidding me? That's gotta be nonsense, if you can't handle drivers and configuration in your own computer, you probably won't even appreciate, much less like, Elite 4.. unless.. it's dumbed down... I guess.
I can give you an example. I bought a PC game not that long ago and it didn't work correctly on my machine. Tracked it down to a driver issue and updated the driver - easy enough. Unfortunaly the new video driver wrecks havoc with the desktop-settings on my machine to the extent that every time I boot my machine I have to reconfigure the resolution of my displays (as well as which one is on the left side, colour-depth etc). So I had a choice.. I could play the game or I could have a working desktop.

And I don't blame the game-developers for that. They can only test so many variants after all, and even if they did manage to test them all new hardware and new drivers keeps getting released that may contain their own bugs that end up destroying the game experience.

Compare that to the console which just works. As I said in my original post which you are commenting upon it is a matter of personal preference, but mine is to go with the console-version of a game as often as possible (the notable exception being RTS games).

Also, are we to believe E4 will really be comparable to ...Thrillville?
Considering that I was pointing out that Frontier does go to some length to make sure that each platform has an interface that makes sense and best takes advantage of said platform... then yes, they are comparable. Though in terms of gameplay you are right that they are quite different.

Hell, some of us still have to switch from hoping to praying it works under WINE, since it's now clear there'll be no Linux support, and probably active antagonism to attempts to make it work. (Not to mention the crap I'll get for even just saying the "L" word.) Fun.
That would be up to the WINE developers to ensure. As for Linux: If E4 gets a publisher that feel there is a case for a Linux-version then it will happen - otherwise it won't.
 
I'd be surprised if there were a decent case for applying resources to a Linux release - it's doesn't have a particularily high market penetration, especially amongst gamers.
 
Steve (Hi btw),
I have to disagree with you on that.
The only reason i'm hanging on to XP is to play X3-TC (sorry for swearing on here :D btw mention Elite on their forum and watch how you get blacklisted ! :mad:)
Otherwise i'd ditch Windows OS and only use Ubuntu. X3-TC will have a Linux version sooner or later and I will be buying it.
It would be a shame if I have to go back to using a Windows OS just to play Elite IV.

I am but one person who feels that way. There must be lots more out there who feel the same as me.
 
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Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Steve (Hi btw),
I have to disagree with you on that.
The only reason i'm hanging on to XP is to play X3-TC (sorry for swearing on here :D btw mention Elite on their forum and watch how you get blacklisted ! :mad:)
Otherwise i'd ditch Windows OS and only use Ubuntu. X3-TC will have a Linux version sooner or later and I will be buying it.
It would be a shame if I have to go back to using a Windows OS just to play Elite IV.

I am but one person who feels that way. There must be lots more out there who feel the same as me.

If only I could ditch Windows I'd be a very happy little peep. So much stuff is dedicated to it unfortunatly, I'll be interested to see what the Google OS is like though
 
Steve (Hi btw),
I have to disagree with you on that.
The only reason i'm hanging on to XP is to play X3-TC (sorry for swearing on here :D btw mention Elite on their forum and watch how you get blacklisted ! :mad:)
Otherwise i'd ditch Windows OS and only use Ubuntu. X3-TC will have a Linux version sooner or later and I will be buying it.
It would be a shame if I have to go back to using a Windows OS just to play Elite IV.

I am but one person who feels that way. There must be lots more out there who feel the same as me.

Hi

Fair enough - I'm not suggesting that no-one wants to use Linux - to the contrary there are stacks of people out there that do use it, but as gamers they are few and far between. The problem lies in an effort versus reward situation. They could develop a game for Blue Gene /L (the worlds most powerful computer) and it might be awesome but since there is only one they wouldn't make a huge amount off it.

As an aside - I've been using Windows 7 for the last few weeks and also been using it as my primary OS at work and it is brilliant. The install is painless, I've had no issues with compatibility and it is extremely slick. I'd have to say that moving to Linux doesn't even come into the picture for me.
 
Steve, I completely agree with you about Linux's market share.

Is it a chicken & egg situation where Linux would get more popular if more software was developed to be compatible with Linux & more software would be developed if Linux was more popular ?
One begets the other so to speak ?
 
Yeah totally - and there is some movement in that direction especially with the more commercial versions of Linux. You have the likes of Novell starting to move their Enterprise environments to Linux and also offering a desktop alternative which often has the roll on effect of an uptake of the same users with Linux at home (like a 'I use it at work and it's ok, so I'll try it at home' situation).

Unfortunately with things like Ubuntu the commercial support is much thinner on the ground and the average user 'just wants their computer to work'. Whilst it's getting closer to this, it's still the domain of the more technically minded user to 'fiddle' with things like Linux in a home environment.
 
this post has been brought to you by the letter &

Fine, I'll make my two cents a nickel. This is my most favorite game in the world we're talking about. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks the entire game industry needs to take copious notes from FFE and come up with something better than privateer, or freelancer, or X.. the biggest nods by the industry towards FFE to ever manifest, even if they were weak, paltry shadows of Elite. Of them, I think Terminus is the best FFE contemporary, even though it's only one solar system, and as Abandonware as it gets.. (it still seemed to make it out for Linux however)

I've been living and working basically Windows free for about 10 years now, and I can tell you ad nauseum about how I don't miss pirating or paying for windows (or OSX), and dealing with worrying about getting caught, viruses, hacking, auditing, or budgeting for, or doing New Math(tm) license calculation.

Frankly It's no more difficult to run Linux than it is to run Windows, the tradeoffs are about the same for Mac users, In general it's a better OS, the only shortcomings really revolve around the rest of the applications industry. Then there's this kid.

I can give you an example. I bought a PC game not that long ago and it didn't work correctly on my machine. Tracked it down to a driver issue and updated the driver - easy enough. Unfortunaly the new video driver wrecks havoc with the desktop-settings on my machine to the extent that every time I boot my machine I have to reconfigure the resolution of my displays (as well as which one is on the left side, colour-depth etc). So I had a choice.. I could play the game or I could have a working desktop.

You should try that game under WINE, instead. And when i works, you can curse out everybody for having to have a whole other operating system installed, just to... play your game.. oh, wait..

There are plenty of issues gaming on the PC, sure, but generally PC gamers are a class of gamer more likely to solve their own problems, support others who've had the same problems, and pressure developers to patch, and/or make their own patches. Funny how this is the same class of gamer who loves the emergent complexity in such a simple game as FFE.

So there's no trade-offs developing for a console, huh? There are plenty of issues I can see right off; developing for 3 or 4 different, disparate console platforms (the manufacturers of which who would gladly pay you not to develop on their competitors,) the cost incentive there is for not supporting ALL consoles, the potential marketshare being lost out on by excluding platforms, ad nausuem.

I recognize that your point is from an enduser standpoint, and the point I raise is a developer standpoint, but what about end users? How does it impact the modding community? Can the modding community honestly believe There'll be an Elite 4 which can be modded across platforms without issue?

It would seem a bit ivory tower to believe that E4 will be such a perfectly good game out of the box that it won't have a community of enthusiasts not hell bent on modding it. It would be a waste of community-building (read: involved, contributing customers bringing ensured longevity to a title) potential. It would also be a waste of what will no doubt be a remarkably awesome gaming technology. FFE had to be reduced to assembly before it could be modded, and given more life than Gametek could have ever EVER imagined... But it was modded, and people still play it, and love it, and it's a great honor and a credit to all involved (and uninvolved) that it's still got so much life today..

When E4 comes out, and everybodys wettest dreams are realized, there'll still be those who'd love to make a wing commander mod, and a battlestar galactica mod, and a star [trek,wars] mod, and hell, probably an X3 mod (for giggles of course,) add the ship modelers/texturers dying to contribute, the scripters, ad nauseum. And why not? It'd be a crime not to, especially if it's going to be the epicness we all expect from the ideas germane in its predecessors, and the decade+ of fandom and speculation built up around it to this day! unless... it's for console... then we're all just screwed.

That would be up to the WINE developers to ensure. As for Linux: If E4 gets a publisher that feel there is a case for a Linux-version then it will happen - otherwise it won't.

..Actually, we're all WINE developers. WINE is free software, and I'm sure you're tired about hearing how freedom isn't free, so yes, it's actually in large part up to the Frontier Developments cathedral whether or not it works with WINE, not some other walled-off cabal. WINE Developers(tm) would have no insight into your code as to why it didn't work with WINE, assuming E4 comes out for PC. This how it's actually on Frontier as to whether or not it'll be made easy to work under WINE or not. As has been mentioned before; chicken, meet egg. Egg, chicken.

Protip: It's working great for Steam.

You have a penchant for mentioning that you'd like everything to be out on the XBOX360, and while i don't take that as "E4 is coming out for Xbox360", I do worry that it might, simply because that would mean business deals by corporations which actively make a Linux version not just discouraged, but attempts to make work (under WINE, for example) actively fought, or engineered against, or worse, outright ignored by the one source of information which might have been able to help make it happen.

The "publisher" bat is a good one to wave around, it kept the linux fans off Obsidian Entertainment's forums and in Atari's forums for years before Neverwinter Nights 2 came out, and surprise, it didn't make one whit of difference. When SecureROM was announced, both Linux and Mac fans who'd enjoy'd Neverwinter 1, knew they were screwed. Obsidian doesn't look any better for it. Now, that NWN2 didn't do nearly as well as NWN1, and the fact NWN1 is still alive and kicking among (Linux) gamers, and that mods are still being released for it; may have little or nothing to do with the decision to only support one platform. Nevertheless, NWN2 was tackled by WINE and is only just now, years after its release becoming somewhat playable.

If that's Elite 4's fate, that's really gonna suck. I just hope the developer response is more than just "oh well!", but I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.

It's not actually Linux's fault for not supporting software game development industry. No company owns Linux, so there's no 2 billion marketing budget promoting the idea to game development houses. (SDL? OpenAL? QT? GTK? anyone?) There's only the software development industry, freely making a choice to support the Linux platform and enjoying the effects of a highly technical fanbase capable of supporting itself, or being paid/discouraged not to, by other corporate interests. Some games don't really belong on Linux, I don't think I'd ever play Thrillville, or Rollercoaster tycoon (though it appears it runs well under WINE), they're just not my cups of tea.. But Elite 4???? I'd play little else.

So since no Corporate Sponsor from Linux(tm) is going to come tell you it, take it from your fans; even if you don't make a Linux native version of E4, assuming you make it for the PC at all, just please don't be hostile towards helping make it work. You won't escape being asked to help, I assure you. Your biggest fans, and the ones most likely to be most involved in the longevity of the game, will remain all cake and ice cream about you.

Cheers,
 

Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah totally - and there is some movement in that direction especially with the more commercial versions of Linux. You have the likes of Novell starting to move their Enterprise environments to Linux and also offering a desktop alternative which often has the roll on effect of an uptake of the same users with Linux at home (like a 'I use it at work and it's ok, so I'll try it at home' situation).

Unfortunately with things like Ubuntu the commercial support is much thinner on the ground and the average user 'just wants their computer to work'. Whilst it's getting closer to this, it's still the domain of the more technically minded user to 'fiddle' with things like Linux in a home environment.

If I'm not mistaken the new Google OS will be Linux based as well. Hopefully this will get more Linux based operating systems in the home environment which in turn may get game designers looking at Linux based OS's in a different light. Shame its happened a few times in the past and never really come to anything, but with the Google brand name this time it might be different.
 
@Steve, I don't know where this atinternet gets their linux numbers, but try doing a poll on Steam and see how many "windows" computers are actually Linux machines running wine, reporting themselves as Windows.

Barring that, just do a quick search on the word "linux" among the Steam groups... Or WoW groups. How can accurate statistics exist, if so many computers "look" like they're Windows, when in fact perception isn't reality, it just seems that way.

Also consider sites like:

http://happypenguin.org
http://linuxgames.com
http://linux-gamers.net
http://icculus.org
http://www.phoronix.com

...Consider how long such sites have been around, and the breadth of their coverage.

Pick a contemporary PC game, any game, then search their forums for a thread about a linux port. More often than not, you'll find one. Or a FAQ saying stop asking..

Then tell me the Linux gaming scene isn't just waiting in the wings for Linux versions of their favorite games so they can continue not using Windows as much as possible, regardless of paying twice as much for the game and/or supporting themselves.

I know I know, it's a tired argument for most people by now. But it's no less a valid, and it'd be a crime for it to go away in the context of E4.

If we, the users, don't remind developers now and again that there *really is* a demand for games on free platforms, then no, it'll never happen, and we're stuck with unnecessary hacks like WINE; a reverse engineered reimplementation of a hostile (towards linux) corporation's APIs.

All corporations don't have to be hostile to markets, and code *can* be written to be portable between platforms, it's not rocket surgery, it's done time and again with most heterogenously available software, like.. say.. GIMP, or OpenOffice, or Firefox, or Wesnoth (a game, btw), or FreeCiv, Oolite, countless others..

Some people don't mind paying for an OS platform, some people mind.. Most people still don't realize they have a choice.

All I can say is, whatever your standpoint, you're not Frontier Developments, you're a fan, like me. Don't discourage choice, it hurts everybody.

Cheers,
 
Victor T,
I bow down and wet my knickers in awe at you !:D
You said in 5 billion (I jest :D) words in your 2nd to last post what I would never have been able to say in the entire life of the universe !

Steve, You mentioned something about PC users wanting their OS to "just work" is how I think you put it (I might edit this post and put in a quote).
Unfortunately with things like Ubuntu the commercial support is much thinner on the ground and the average user 'just wants their computer to work'. Whilst it's getting closer to this, it's still the domain of the more technically minded user to 'fiddle' with things like Linux in a home environment.
Well I can tell you that as a total programming idiot (as I have said before, I am not joking there) I can get Ubuntu to work very well without a single bit of programming required.
Even hardware that shouldn't be compatible "just works".
Like I said, it would be a shame if I have to go back to windows OS just to play Elite IV.
Maybe the nice and very knowledgeable VictorT could help me play Elite IV on Ubuntu when our Epicness wet dream game is eventually released.
Steve, you did teach me a lot about forums when I started learning, and I will never forget it. Thank you. :D

Victor, if you did want to contact me,
the link is at the bottom of this post, my group on Facebook. :D
 
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lol, thanks Alien. I'm actually not on facebook. But you can PM me any linux questions about Elite IV you ever have. [Not that I'll swear I could be much help, mind you. :rolleyes:] :D

Cheers,
 
Victor T,

Well I can tell you that as a total programming idiot (as I have said before, I am not joking there) I can get Ubuntu to work very well without a single bit of programming required.
Even hardware that shouldn't be compatible "just works".
Like I said, it would be a shame if I have to go back to windows OS just to play Elite IV.
:D

Well Kudos - it does work out of the box and finding drivers for every day hardware and the like is really not that hard these days but when something breaks and you have to revert to command line to fix it, it's a whole other ball game. This is degrading a bit into a Windows vs Linux thread :D

VictorT said:
Barring that, just do a quick search on the word "linux" among the Steam groups... Or WoW groups. How can accurate statistics exist, if so many computers "look" like they're Windows, when in fact perception isn't reality, it just seems that way.

I'm not really sure what the difference is - so you're running Linux but having to use WINE to get apps and games running that were designed for Windows. Doesn't that effectively mean that you're still supporting the Windows OS and as a direct result the surrounding industry?

VictorT said:
All I can say is, whatever your standpoint, you're not Frontier Developments, you're a fan, like me. Don't discourage choice, it hurts everybody.

Either way I'm all for choice but that's unfortunately not the reality of the situation. It a simple numbers game and it becomes even more simple when you add money into the equation. As a developer and as a business you are always going to develop for the platforms that make sense from a resource expediature versus earning potential and as wonderful as Linux is and as massive as it's potential to take over the world and revolutionise the home computing market is, it just doesn't have the market penetration to justify the resource and money spent on creating a Linux version. I'm not trying to discourage choice - I'm just looking at the reality of the situation (and from my standpoint the perception is the same as the reality).

I used to be a huge Acorn RISCOS fan, my first computer was a BBC B+ and up until the age of 17 I had either an Archimedes A410 or a RISC PC - I loved them and in my eyes they were the future of computing. They were more powerful, more user intuative and far more aesthetically pleasing than any Windows machine on the market at the time. Much like Linux it had masses of positives going for it but it's greatest issue and the thing that ultimately led to it's downfall was it inability to get developers to actively create software for it. Why? Because there was no money in it.

I accept that there are all sorts of fantastic things that Linux has going for it not the least it being entirely free! It's stable, fast, has a great community and has recently had a huge boost in the form of webbook laptops BUT, and it's a pretty big but, it doesn't have the market penetration that Windows or Apples OSX has, it doesn't have the support of the major software houses and when you look at it from a business perspective, it doesn't have a decent money turning potential.

Granted all it might take is for one gaming house to take the time and spend the money and produce that one great game for Linux to be percieved as a viable gaming platform but that company had better be ready to not expect to see a return on their investment.

When you are faced by a choice of developing for the gaming market then you have to look at your ultimate target demographic then you look at the obvious targets - firstly people who own games consoles (as they are the most likely to spend their money on purchasing a new copy of a game) and secondly the people who belong to the larger OS user base which unfortunately is Microsoft Windows.
 
o_O

This is degrading a bit into a Windows vs Linux thread :D

Well then make the madness stop.

I'm not really sure what the difference is - so you're running Linux but having to use WINE to get apps and games running that were designed for Windows. Doesn't that effectively mean that you're still supporting the Windows OS and as a direct result the surrounding industry?

Nice flamebait. You act like I'm saying don't make it for Windows. Please, make it for Windows! Hell, make it for Mac too.. But also make it for Linux. From the article which started this whole thread, it says it's being made for PS3 anyway, which is basically a Linux box to begin with, so it's not like it could take the Dev team that much longer to whip out a Linux edition. There are plenty of Linux game devs they could tap (from icculus.org, for example) for advice and pointers and such.

It's no secret there is a deep sentiment among PC gamers to ditch Windows every chance they can get, and some of them remember Elite, too.

It's possible there won't be a return on a Linux edition right away, but there aren't that many titles that have such a great chance of success under Linux as Elite IV. To base not doing it on that it wouldn't be worth the investment immediately, is too short-term thinking for me to believe everybody feels that way about it. Especially considering all the PCs, phones, planes, ATMs, cars, toilets, and whatever else Linux runs on these days (and what more in 2012?). You seem to be under the impression Linux is going to away or something. As if Linux isn't officially more compatible with more hardware than both Vista and 7. As if Intel didn't complete USB3 and write drivers for Linux first. As if it doesn't run google, or as if Ubuntu doesn't have just as many support phone numbers as Redhat. Not to mention, it'd be the only one of the Elite series that doesn't run under Linux ;).

It seems to me, Frontier Developments would have to be on the brink of failure before it was unreasonable for them to consider a Linux port. Take into account that the article mentions it's being made for at least 3 platforms, xbox, PS3 and PC. That's a lot of platforms for me to believe they're struggling. Beyond that, Xbox isn't more than a glorified PC to begin with, so it's pretty clear the codebases between them will be pretty similar Windows executables. But a PS3 is an OpenGL box, If the code is portable between Xbox and PS3, it's not a stretch to port it once (or twice) more. If there's a Mac version, Macs are basically BSD Unix now anyway, it isn't much more than a recompile and some additional libraries (calls, testing, etc) and you have a Linux edition. Not to mention the new found powers of Frontier's already well rounded developers.

It makes too much sense not to. Linux gamers are perfectly happy supporting themselves, and those new to Linux gaming will find out what the open source movement is all about when they can get help from me, Alien, or anybody who's gotten E4 working under Linux. Nobody would look to frontier for more than bugtracking. If Frontier wanted to be more involved in the support of it, nobody would complain about that either. Hell, they'll have everybody's love just for doing it to begin with, even among those that didn't play it under Linux, that all the expansions and future titles out of Frontier are sure to get a second look. So that's part of the return on investment, too.

Guess I'll just have to cross my fingers, like the rest of us until we learn more. I posit we leave it at this, and it won't be about versus anymore. ;) I'm keenly aware the odds aren't in my favor that Frontier will decide on a Linux edition, it doesn't really need pointing out.

You're getting your wish, Steve, It's coming out for Windows. I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself along with PS3 and Xbox owners.. My only point is, let me (and anybody who wants to) speak for the free market, Microsoft has enough people speaking for them, it's hard enough for people who aren't their customers to get heard.

Thanks,
 
Nice flamebait. You act like I'm saying don't make it for Windows. Please, make it for Windows! Hell, make it for Mac too.. But also make it for Linux.

Oh it's not a flamebait (infact the inferrance is almost insulting as I think it would be a stretch to label me as a troll!) and I think you misunderstand my point. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't make it for any particular platform more the reason why they won't. If you can play the game on WINE, why make an alternative version?

It's no secret there is a deep sentiment among PC gamers to ditch Windows every chance they can get, and some of them remember Elite, too.

Now this intrigues me - I used to have this opinion as well - then I had a play with Linux as a computer technition and a network administrator with the possibility of using it as a primary OS and found it lacking and at times overly complicated. I understand that much of this is down to an ingrained (almost like a muscle memory) knowledge of how Windows works but quite a bit of linux sys tools seemed counter intuative.

I've asked a few people to openly discuss this on another Gaming forum and I will get back to you with whether the sentiment is actually that 'deep' or not.

Especially considering all the PCs, phones, planes, ATMs, cars, toilets, and whatever else Linux runs on these days (and what more in 2012?). You seem to be under the impression Linux is going to away or something. As if Linux isn't officially more compatible with more hardware than both Vista and 7. As if Intel didn't complete USB3 and write drivers for Linux first. As if it doesn't run google, or as if Ubuntu doesn't have just as many support phone numbers as Redhat. Not to mention, it'd be the only one of the Elite series that doesn't run under Linux ;).

Oh I have no illusions about Linux being here to stay in fact I use it every day on a multitude of servers around the world and have nothing but praise for it in it's stability and speed. As a home OS I don't find it to be heterogeneous enough. By this I mean that it's not developed enough, it's Open/GL development is in early stages and is not as mature as the windows implimentations, it's structure doesn't lean itself to an ease for developers. For Linux to be a more viable platform it's up to the Linux developers to make it more so, not, I believe, the games houses.

It seems to me, Frontier Developments would have to be on the brink of failure before it was unreasonable for them to consider a Linux port. Take into account that the article mentions it's being made for at least 3 platforms, xbox, PS3 and PC. That's a lot of platforms for me to believe they're struggling. Beyond that, Xbox isn't more than a glorified PC to begin with, so it's pretty clear the codebases between them will be pretty similar Windows executables. But a PS3 is an OpenGL box, If the code is portable between Xbox and PS3, it's not a stretch to port it once (or twice) more. If there's a Mac version, Macs are basically BSD Unix now anyway, it isn't much more than a recompile and some additional libraries (calls, testing, etc) and you have a Linux edition. Not to mention the new found powers of Frontier's already well rounded developers.

This is assuming that all OpenGLs are the same and unfortunately they are not. The OpenGL that Sony uses in the PS3 is a very different beast to the everyday variation that exists within Linux and PCs. Unfortunately it's not as simple as 'it works on PS3 OpenGL so it should work on all other machine with OpenGL support'.

It makes too much sense not to. Linux gamers are perfectly happy supporting themselves, and those new to Linux gaming will find out what the open source movement is all about when they can get help from me, Alien, or anybody who's gotten E4 working under Linux. Nobody would look to frontier for more than bugtracking. If Frontier wanted to be more involved in the support of it, nobody would complain about that either. Hell, they'll have everybody's love just for doing it to begin with, even among those that didn't play it under Linux, that all the expansions and future titles out of Frontier are sure to get a second look. So that's part of the return on investment, too.

I think you have a bit of a misty eyed view of the every day user. I don't believe for a moment that Frontier wouldn't be inunated by support calls and it would be for the half a dozen different variations of Linux distros out there. No one would ever accept that a games house worth any of their price would write a game, release it into the wild and then expect the users to do all the support for it. I don't buy it I'm sorry.

Guess I'll just have to cross my fingers, like the rest of us until we learn more. I posit we leave it at this, and it won't be about versus anymore. ;) I'm keenly aware the odds aren't in my favor that Frontier will decide on a Linux edition, it doesn't really need pointing out.

You're getting your wish, Steve, It's coming out for Windows. I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself along with PS3 and Xbox owners.. My only point is, let me (and anybody who wants to) speak for the free market, Microsoft has enough people speaking for them, it's hard enough for people who aren't their customers to get heard.

Thanks,

I don't mind having the discussion. It seems odd to suggest that "It's no secret there is a deep sentiment among PC gamers to ditch Windows every chance they can get..." and also that "Microsoft has enough people speaking for them..." in the same discussion. Surely if people are standing up for Windows as an OS and a gaming platform then it must have something going for it?
 
Steve O B Have said:
Now this intrigues me - I used to have this opinion as well - then I had a play with Linux as a computer technition and a network administrator with the possibility of using it as a primary OS and found it lacking and at times overly complicated. I understand that much of this is down to an ingrained (almost like a muscle memory) knowledge of how Windows works but quite a bit of linux sys tools seemed counter intuative.

I've asked a few people to openly discuss this on another Gaming forum and I will get back to you with whether the sentiment is actually that 'deep' or not.

Well after 59 replies there was quite an interesting outcome. The majority of people preferred Windows as their preferencial gaming platform however there were quite a few Linux users that weighed in on the discussion.

There were a number of people who would, all things being equal (i.e. equal opportunity Windows and Linux gaming) that would immediately switch. However the number of people who found that Linux was not the OS that they wanted was somewhat larger. It was a very interesting discussion and it is continuing here if you're interested: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18032327

However in response to the "...deep sentiment among PC gamers to ditch Windows every chance they can get...", it never really materialised. There just wasn't the vehiment response that you might expect from such a feeling. Any response from the pro Linux camp was considered and logical and more of an expression of preference rather than outright one sidedness. Similarily the response from the PC side of the discussion was again quite considered and born from a preference rather than an really specific dislike for the other.

Interesting point.
 

Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Well after 59 replies there was quite an interesting outcome. The majority of people preferred Windows as their preferencial gaming platform however there were quite a few Linux users that weighed in on the discussion.

There were a number of people who would, all things being equal (i.e. equal opportunity Windows and Linux gaming) that would immediately switch. However the number of people who found that Linux was not the OS that they wanted was somewhat larger. It was a very interesting discussion and it is continuing here if you're interested: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18032327

However in response to the "...deep sentiment among PC gamers to ditch Windows every chance they can get...", it never really materialised. There just wasn't the vehiment response that you might expect from such a feeling. Any response from the pro Linux camp was considered and logical and more of an expression of preference rather than outright one sidedness. Similarily the response from the PC side of the discussion was again quite considered and born from a preference rather than an really specific dislike for the other.

Interesting point.

Hi Steve,

Very interesting points there, I'm not anti Microsoft :rolleyes: (most of the time.)

For me, I would prefer a OS that dosen't take up masses of HDD space and system resources. Windows for me does seem to need constant updates etc.

I just want a basic OS which allows 3rd party applications to run in its enviroment without taking a age to load the OS and all its ancilliary applications.

The Amiga's Workbench OS was/is, simple, quick and user friendly. I don't want the OS to be the dominant piece of software on the machine, just something that allows me to run the programs I want to run.

I hope at some point there is a viable alternative to Windows, purely to give people a choice.
 
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