Something I'd like to say to those complaining about the new engineer system.

[Deleted member 110222]

I've seen this comment quite a lot.

"I prefer the old system because I was happy to settle for a mid-range roll. New system means I have to grind."

Right, I'm going to be blunt.

This quote is silly. It makes no sense. None at all.

In the old system, yes, it's true. You could technically get a god roll on the first attempt. Great, cool. But you know what else could happen in the old system? You could get a bottom 1% roll every time. RNG meant that was possible. Indeed, I do have one friend who made several hundred G5 rolls. They all sucked. He got no gain whatsoever.

Here's the thing about the new system. Here's why it is better, even for those happy with "mid-range" rolls.

Yes, the minimum number of rolls needed to progress has increased. I'm not denying this, as it is irrefutable fact. However! The maximum amount of rolls to achieve the absolute best result has, on average, decreased by a literally immeasurable margin. What used to take on average a few hundred rolls... Now takes at most twenty. And that's on really bad RNG progression. So far, my G5 mods have taken between 8-12.

Can someone please explain to me, how on earth 20 rolls of guaranteed progression is worse than several hundred rolls that are each worse than the last? It absolutely boggles the mind.

So yes. I'm sorry folks. You're never going to get to experience that god roll on attempt #1. You will have to do some work. But overall, the "grind" has been reduced massively.

Here's the thing. Nobody is really happy with "mid-range". We all want "the best" at heart. We all want that extra 2m/s, that extra 0.13ly. And now, getting those stats is a very reasonable, and realistic goal for even the most casual players.

Nobody has lost anything with the new system. Nobody. But instead, everyone has gained. Massively. The problem is, some people seem to not be able to accept this.

One final point. "I want mid-range only."

I think Frontier wants you all to get top results now. Winter is coming. I think you'll need the engineering soon. I think PvE is going to get very interesting, thanks to Thargoids.

 

[Hellakitty]

I stand by the 13 rolls for max results from G1 through to the top of G5.

It allows you to plan accurately and efficiently for a build and the time spent for gathering the materials for those up to 13 rolls is rewarded reasonably with a ship performing as you expected it to given the level of engineering you choose.

PvE may be getting very interesting soon, but those who are stuck in broken RNG hell waiting for enough HGE's and DWE's to drop just to have them consumed by the broken RNG hell at the top of G5 are going to miss it.

 

[Chris Simon]

I think the main reason some people are complaining is that even if they put a lot of grind into engineering, they won't get better module than everyone else.
The max is firmly given. They call it "unfair", I call it balance.

New engineering is great, encourages experimenting with secondaries and most importantly, doesn't create god ships.
I just wish they didn't allow us to keep the modules created under the old system. But as "most" of the old people are leaving the game, anyway (according to forums), this problem will sort itself out, eventually.

 

[Red Martian]

I've actually had better luck in the new system. Inside of two afternoons, I had pulled together enough resources to upgrade my 5A FSD. It's a level 5 that, sitting inside my DBX, makes 53 light year jumps. 53 ly! I use it as a taxi to skip across the bubble in a handful of jumps, and I love it.

 

[Chris Simon]

I've actually had better luck in the new system. Inside of two afternoons, I had pulled together enough resources to upgrade my 5A FSD. It's a level 5 that, sitting inside my DBX, makes 53 light year jumps. 53 ly! I use it as a taxi to skip across the bubble in a handful of jumps, and I love it.

Yes, that's another thing. Mats are much easier to find and manage, now.
I really don't get all the flak on the forums.

 

[Red Martian]

Yes, that's another thing. Mats are much easier to find and manage, now.
I really don't get all the flak on the forums.

I honestly don't, either. The old system was such a pain for me to use. I would do 5 rolls, and end up with something slightly worse than what I started with. It was frustrating. This system is simplified, and more direct. I much prefer it.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I think the main reason some people are complaining is that even if they put a lot of grind into engineering, they won't get better module than everyone else.
The max is firmly given. They call it "unfair", I call it balance.

New engineering is great, encourages experimenting with secondaries and most importantly, doesn't create god ships.
I just wish they didn't allow us to keep the modules created under the old system. But as "most" of the old people are leaving the game, anyway (according to forums), this problem will sort itself out, eventually.

Exactly. It probably won't surprise you to hear that I have a huge number of contacts in the Xbox community, most not on these forums. I've been watching my activity feed on console a lot lately. Ever since 3.0 dropped, I've seen a surge of screenshots of rolls. Some top 1% G5, others a player's very first engineer experience. I've counted dozens of achievements unlocked regarding engineering. That says a lot. A lot of people didn't touch the old engineers. At all. Now, with the new system, people are finally motivated to give it a go.

Frontier wanted more people to engage with this part of the game. I say it's working. Very, very well.

The people still complaining? They really are a vocal minority.

 

[Taimaru]

I agree with the OP. I really don't understand what the issue is with the new system and I think the new system is great.

In the old system I only really concentrated on FSD Jump Range. Only 2 out of 8 ships was I able to get good results with 6-7 rolls, the rest of the ships I had to do at least 20 rolls and I still didn't get as good a result as the other 2.

With the new system I can now get a guaranteed good result for 20 or less rolls which is a win, right? Combine that with the changes to material storage limits and the material broker, "grinding" (I hate that word) is much less.

With the improvements to the Engineering mechanic, I am now encouraged to engineer more module types, not just FSD range.

 

[dognosh]

I've seen this comment quite a lot.

"I prefer the old system because I was happy to settle for a mid-range roll. New system means I have to grind."

Right, I'm going to be blunt.

This quote is silly. It makes no sense. None at all.

In the old system, yes, it's true. You could technically get a god roll on the first attempt. Great, cool. But you know what else could happen in the old system? You could get a bottom 1% roll every time. RNG meant that was possible. Indeed, I do have one friend who made several hundred G5 rolls. They all sucked. He got no gain whatsoever.

Here's the thing about the new system. Here's why it is better, even for those happy with "mid-range" rolls.

Yes, the minimum number of rolls needed to progress has increased. I'm not denying this, as it is irrefutable fact. However! The maximum amount of rolls to achieve the absolute best result has, on average, decreased by a literally immeasurable margin. What used to take on average a few hundred rolls... Now takes at most twenty. And that's on really bad RNG progression. So far, my G5 mods have taken between 8-12.

Can someone please explain to me, how on earth 20 rolls of guaranteed progression is worse than several hundred rolls that are each worse than the last? It absolutely boggles the mind.

So yes. I'm sorry folks. You're never going to get to experience that god roll on attempt #1. You will have to do some work. But overall, the "grind" has been reduced massively.

Here's the thing. Nobody is really happy with "mid-range". We all want "the best" at heart. We all want that extra 2m/s, that extra 0.13ly. And now, getting those stats is a very reasonable, and realistic goal for even the most casual players.

Nobody has lost anything with the new system. Nobody. But instead, everyone has gained. Massively. The problem is, some people seem to not be able to accept this.

One final point. "I want mid-range only."

I think Frontier wants you all to get top results now. Winter is coming. I think you'll need the engineering soon. I think PvE is going to get very interesting, thanks to Thargoids.

You missed the point for us NON-GOD rollers....we'd get engineer to G5 once then only roll 1 to 3 times and accept what we got. Hence subsequent ships did only 1-3 rolls,not 12-20 !!!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'd also like to add that most of my first G5 rolls got me about 25% to 35% G5 complete, and in almost all cases this was already better than my legacy modification. Rolling through G1 to G4 is quickly done, mostly using mats already have, or can easily find.

 

[Truesilver]

100% agree with OP.

I think unfortunately for some the g1-g4 thing obscures the ease of the new system. It's a distraction, no more, but for some a dazzling one.

g1-g4 is so easy and laughably irrelevant that if I could I'd actually give the first 100 players who asked me all the mats they needed for g1-g4. I don't mean it's good, it's just nothing.

Meanwhile my 'Contacts' panel is full of returning friends, including (to some) well-known players who put a lot into this game such as Cmdrs A_Honcho, Hammer Fall and Elethiomel Zakalwe.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

You missed the point for us NON-GOD rollers....we'd get engineer to G5 once then only roll 1 to 3 times and accept what we got. Hence subsequent ships did only 1-3 rolls,not 12-20 !!!

But it's now hilariously easy to get a top roll. As I said. The minimum number has increased ever so slightly.

But the maximum has decreased by an unimaginable number.

I really do think Frontier wants you to aim for the best now.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You missed the point for us NON-GOD rollers....we'd get engineer to G5 once then only roll 1 to 3 times and accept what we got. Hence subsequent ships did only 1-3 rolls,not 12-20 !!!

That argument ignores some very important facts.

If you were happy with what you got in 3 G5 roll, then just max to G4 now. It will almost certainly be as good. You can do this in 6 rolls, but rolls that require much more common materials. You cannot compare the cost of a G1 roll to a G5 roll, because the mats are so much easier to get.

AND, if you ever have the mats for G5, you will know for sure you are improving things.

 

[Lori Jameson]

You missed the point for us NON-GOD rollers....we'd get engineer to G5 once then only roll 1 to 3 times and accept what we got. Hence subsequent ships did only 1-3 rolls,not 12-20 !!!

Yeah, and some people only fly AspX's and T-7's who think 'grind is in the mind'. This is one of the few times FD have decreased the grind to an acceptable level. I can now fully engineer aa ship to top specs in an afternoon or two. Mats and Data are easy as pie to collect thanks to EDDB, the Broker Network, and the hightened drop rates.

In the old system I would settle for 1-3 G5 rolls on all my stuff, like most did. However it sometimes took weeks to get my Mats and Data, only to receive bad rolls in return. I'd rather take an afternoon or two of SRV shenanigans, Broker fiddling, and USS scouting to get the rolls for 8-15 G1-5 rolls and get top results over the dumpster fire we had before...

 

[dognosh]

But it's now hilariously easy to get a top roll. As I said. The minimum number has increased ever so slightly.

But the maximum has decreased by an unimaginable number.

I really do think Frontier wants you to aim for the best now.

You do have a point !

For us not maxing, we still need 5-8 rolls just to get to G5,then even 2 G5 rolls means a minimum investment of 7-10 rolls,compared to 1-3 rolls.
Over six ships only, that is up to 60 rolls vs less than 20 before. New system is a godsend for god rollers.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You do have a point !

For us not maxing, we still need 5-8 rolls just to get to G5,then even 2 G5 rolls means a minimum investment of 7-10 rolls,compared to 1-3 rolls.
Over six ships only, that is up to 60 rolls vs less than 20 before. New system is a godsend for god rollers.

But not 7-10 G5 rolls!!!

 

[Muetdhiver]

The new engineering is a massive improvement compared to before.

Material collection is still a PITA and a steaming pile of RNGdung for a lot of its "gameplay" loops.

Some are actually about looping around in SC waiting. That's the ground zero of game design IMO.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

I'm not a fan of the power creep that engineers introduces and material collection is still basically a grindy lottery, but the new system is definitely an improvement over the old one. No more fruit machines, no more inventory management, the material trader helps a bit with difficult-to-find stuff, the remote workshop adds more convenience, and progression is now predictable and fair (in the sense that everyone can achieve the same results).

And as someone already mentioned, a G4 mod in the new system can be as good and sometimes better than a G5 roll in the old system.

 

[Muetdhiver]

For PvE quick'n'easy G4 mods are so sweet. It's really a great improvement.

Especially with pining. Once the most used blueprints are pinned, casually upgrading to G3-G4 in any ship, anywhere without running around to engineers like a headless chicken is really good.

The powercreep part is a reality and will only get addressed by higher difficulty content like the new wing assassination missions.

 

[Lori Jameson]

The new engineering is a massive improvement compared to before.

Material collection is still a PITA and a steaming pile of RNGdung for a lot of its "gameplay" loops.

Some are actually about looping around in SC waiting. That's the ground zero of game design IMO.

Now we wait for Q4, huh? Hopefully the Exploration overhauls will create decent gameplay accociated with finding Mats.