Sorry to hear of Elite Dangerous/Odyssey problems

[-VR- Max Factor]

I didn't create the engineering system. I didn't bring it with me either. So that can't be right.

I never said you did, and nobody is forcing you to grind to get them either.
What has that got to do with the grind you bring with you. Grind is a choice.

Systems are, or at least should be, meant to be used and pursued, not just eventually fallen into. Why would you design an incredibly beneficial system with the intent to have people not use it then rebalance parts of game content around having it?

Sure, but how you go about it is entirely up to you. You grind it out to get them asap or not. The choice us yours.

Some of the engineered modules were goals, but the biggest goal for me is to have fun, which is surely the main point in playing a computer game. I'm going to say that if you are not having fun, then after getting the engineered modules, it's still won't be fun, as you can only do the exact same gameplay (but in a more efficient way), you could do before getting the engineered modules.

You choose how you go about getting them. If you grind, that's because you have chosen to grind. There is nothing about the enginnered modules that force you to grind to get them.

 

[House0fDerp]

I never said you did, and nobody is forcing you to grind to get them either.

I never claimed I was forced, I claimed they were grindy to directly and intently engage with. Yes, I acknowledge you can ignore them the same way you can just not play the game as a whole. But logging off or ignoring systems until you fall into their requirements doesn't really make the negative parts of the game better. It just lets you stop looking at them for a while.

What has that got to do with the grind you bring with you.

This doesn't exist. People bring goals with them and ideally those goals and focuses should be treated with some similarity rather than just saying "sucks to be you" towards PvP focused players as PvP is a supported mechanic and so are CZs which have been buffed as well.

Grind is a choice.

Grind can be viewed as a content choice but if you do that it means the grind complainers are right because they are just playing the sandbox as intended, by finding their own way and being punished for the specific requirements of it. That means the sandbox isn't equally supporting the choices it presents and is a sandbox failure IMO.

Sure, but how you go about it is entirely up to you. You grind it out to get them asap or not. The choice us yours.

This only applies if you are grinding for grinds sake in which case you aren't complaining. If you're grinding for enablement (whether fueled by a skill ceiling in content or gear check in PvP) your choice is do something you don't like or do something else you don't like. I could just go flitting around staring at the empty galaxy or race SRVs in canyons or run trade loops and never worry about an engineered combat mod, but that's not really fun to me.

Some of the engineered modules were goals, but the biggest goal for me is to have fun, which is surely the main point in playing a computer game.

Same, and to enable that and actually be effective between skill ceilings and buffed NPCs I sought engineering.

I'm going to say that if you are not having fun, then after getting the engineered modules, it's still won't be fun, as you can only do the exact same gameplay (but in a more efficient way), you could do before getting the engineered modules.

You'd be wrong. PvE got so much better once Vipers and Asps in CZs stopped feeling like shooting at heavily armored condas and your ship isn't folding in on itself every few seconds of fire.

 

[physical0]

Engineering is repetitive busy work that requires no real effort to accomplish. Whether this be done over the course of months, or done in a single day, it doesn't offer any challenge. It simply taxes your time.

Spreading it out so you don't notice how repetitive and boring it is isn't a solution, it's a workaround.

 

[House0fDerp]

I've played considerably more Star Citizen than Elite, but I play Elite for the solo play, simplicity of vessel operation and UI, and working gameplay loops.

Compared the bugs in Elite, what I've seen in SC ...

Isn't SC still in various stages of perpetual alpha though?

 

[Sapient6]

Spreading it out so you don't notice how repetitive and boring it is isn't a solution, it's a workaround.

I think it's more than that: it's the only viable workaround for a terrible but oddly popular design decision. Ignore it completely except to very occasionally check to see if you've accidentally got the things you need for a nice little upgrade. Then say "oh, this is a nice little surprise I never counted on!"

Too bad that it barely dovetails with objective based play, and not at all with meta gaming. Still it's the only approach I can stomach, and not just here, but also in the small number of MMOs I ever play. MMO. I'm pretty sure that "MMO" is a cancerous tumor on the face of modern gaming.

 

[GreySix]

Isn't SC still in various stages of perpetual alpha though?

It is, and I test it often. The gaming experience can often be a bug and glitch-infested crash-fest.

But when its mostly stable (like the current build), it can be fun to group up and game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I never claimed I was forced, I claimed they were grindy to directly and intently engage with. Yes, I acknowledge you can ignore them the same way you can just not play the game as a whole. But logging off or ignoring systems until you fall into their requirements doesn't really make the negative parts of the game better. It just lets you stop looking at them for a while.

Not necessarily. You can engage with them and not make it a grind. It's all in the way you go about it yourself.

This doesn't exist. People bring goals with them and ideally those goals and focuses should be treated with some similarity rather than just saying "sucks to be you" towards PvP focused players as PvP is a supported mechanic and so are CZs which have been buffed as well.

PvP and PvE games do not mix well. ED is predominantly a PvE game. That isn't going to change and neither do I think it should do.

Grind can be viewed as a content choice but if you do that it means the grind complainers are right because they are just playing the sandbox as intended, by finding their own way and being punished for the specific requirements of it. That means the sandbox isn't equally supporting the choices it presents and is a sandbox failure IMO.

People that are grinding are playing the game how they want to. There is no intended way to play the game. Fdev have given us tools, its up to us how we use them. Nobody gets punished, unless you stupidly punish yourself.

This only applies if you are grinding for grinds sake in which case you aren't complaining. If you're grinding for enablement (whether fueled by a skill ceiling in content or gear check in PvP) your choice is do something you don't like or do something else you don't like. I could just go flitting around staring at the empty galaxy or race SRVs in canyons or run trade loops and never worry about an engineered combat mod, but that's not really fun to me.

Lol. You do not need to grind for enablement. As stated, this game is predominantly a PvE game. Anyone trying to play it as a predominantly PvP game is going to get disappointed. That's just how the game is set up, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be set up like that.

Sure PvE may not be your cup of tea, but unfortunately that is the game you bought. Why should it change and ruin it for others.

Same, and to enable that and actually be effective between skill ceilings and buffed NPCs I sought engineering.

That's fine, but again, there is nothing that forces you to grind for any engineered modules. Doesn't matter, you can always find combat that is suitable for you in this game.

You'd be wrong. PvE got so much better once Vipers and Asps in CZs stopped feeling like shooting at heavily armored condas and your ship isn't folding in on itself every few seconds of fire.

I have a cobra that I use in CZ's and I only have grade 2 engineered weapons for it and its great and I am not a skilful pilot. You don't need to grind to get those at all.

 

[Asmodeus]

Play Enjoy, Don't enjoy don't play. Easy really.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Engineering is repetitive busy work that requires no real effort to accomplish. Whether this be done over the course of months, or done in a single day, it doesn't offer any challenge. It simply taxes your time.

Spreading it out so you don't notice how repetitive and boring it is isn't a solution, it's a workaround.

Busy work means this: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself.

Now value is very subjective. Do you find getting the materials fun? Surely that is of value if you do.

Do you find engineered modules of value, again that is down to the individual. If you don't, then you don't need them, then you don't need to get the materials, no busy work there.

It only feels repetative in the way you go about it. Sure there is repetition, which all games have, but that is not going to be helped. Sure there could always be more ways of getting materials, but most people seem spam one way, then complain about the grind.

All of the materials I have got are out of doing something I enjoy, whether that's flying my ship, driving my SRV, doing missions, scanning ships in supercruise for possible dangers, dropping in on space POIs for salvage or looting and exploring geological/biological features.

I enjoy doing all of those, and I can get materials as just a byproduct of that. How is that busy work?

To me, that's fun and enjoyable.

 

[physical0]

Busy work means this: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself.

Now value is very subjective. Do you find getting the materials fun? Surely that is of value.

Do you find engineered modules of value, again that is down to the individual. If you don't, then you don't need them, then you don't need to get the materials.

It only feels repetative in the way you do it. Sure there is repetition, which all games have.

All of the materials I have got are out of doing something I enjoy, whether that's flying my ship, driving my SRV, doing missions, scanning ships in supercruise for possible dangers, dropping in on space POIs for salvage or looting and exploring geological/biological features.

I enjoy doing all of those, and I can get materials as just a byproduct of that. How is that busy work?

To me, that's fun and enjoyable.

You are grasping at straws.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You are grasping at straws.

How?

I've just told it as it is and how I've got my materials, how is that gasping at straws?

Please explain?

 

[physical0]

How?

I've just told it as it is and how I've got my materials, how is that gasping at straws?

Please explain?

You are going to great lengths in a vain attempt to justify boring and uninspiring gameplay.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You are going to great lengths in a vain attempt to justify boring and uninspiring gameplay.

I'm not justifying anything. If you find it boring and uninspiring, don't do it. Everything I do in the game, I enjoy.

What you find boring and uninspiring is personal to you. It's subjective. Others may feel differently.

Nobody forces you to do anything in this game and that also includes playing it.

 

[physical0]

I'm not justifying anything. If you find it boring and uninspiring, don't do it. Everything I do in the game, I enjoy.

What you find boring and uninspiring is personal to you. It's subjective. Others may feel differently.

Nobody forces you to do anything in this game and that also includes playing it.

My favorite part of the community is how welcoming everyone is.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

My favorite part of the community is how welcoming everyone is.

Yes, that would be great.

Shame you can't practice what you preach. Look at your responses to me.

 

[physical0]

Yes, that would be great.

Shame you can't practice what you preach. Look at your responses to me.

You shouldn't be so quick to encourage people not to play the game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You shouldn't be so quick to encourage people not to play the game.

I wasn't encouraging people to not play the game. All I said is that nobody is forced to play the game. It's a fact. How is stating a fact encouraging people?

 

[Einar Donarsson]

What you ask is so far away from ED it's not even funny. We just had spaceleg, and look at how much it cost.
Let's fix the game first ?

Not the Legs destroyed the Game, the forced Graphics downgrad.. i mean upgrades cause the FramesPS issues.
If they had put developmenttime in activities instead of "new" graphics we might have a different game.

 

[Brrokk]

Good god. The only grind in ED is the grind you bring with you.

I have plenty of engineered ships, and guess what, I have not had to grind anything to get those enginnered modules. Grind is a choice in this game. Sure , if someone wants to grind to get something ASAP, then knock yourself out. But they don't have a right to moan about it when they have have chosen to grind out gameplay themselves.

It's a choice, not a requirement.

And no, you do not forgo any gameplay by not grinding out mechanics, unless you are only into PvP, but as the game isn't a PvP centric game, I see no reason why it should be balanced around such people.

Same here. I NEVER grind video games. But after a few years playing ED I've run out of things to unlock and engineer.

Personally I prefer a game that's not over quickly.

 

[House0fDerp]

I wasn't encouraging people to not play the game. All I said is that nobody is forced to play the game. It's a fact. How is stating a fact encouraging people?

When you keep pointing repeatedly to a specific course of action in response to feedback about the game how is that not encouraging people, fact or not?

Busy work means this: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself.

Getting hung up on definitions.

Gathering surface mats is for me not enjoyable, mining I can take in small doses but the module engineering that those mats enable enables are valuable.

These are the only 2 ways to get surface mats in any real quantities. One of them involves a part of the game I'd otherwise wholly ignore. There is literally nothing worthwhile there for me so of course it's repetitive. I have no alternative and the whole time I'm there I'd rather be doing something else. There is no activity I enjoy that I can intermix with it. Whether it's regular surface exploration, braintree searching, or yes, even farming the downed anaconda, none of them really appeal so obviously I'm going to feel the time there that's wasted by the absurd and unnecessarily high number of mats combined with lossy exchange rates.

But I'm willing to bet that you'll again call having a preference "bringing grind with me" because I express that gathering surface mats is a grind given my preferred play.

Same here. I NEVER grind video games. But after a few years playing ED I've run out of things to unlock and engineer.

Personally I prefer a game that's not over quickly.

I prefer the game derive it's length from being engaging and dynamic in some way rather than introducing speedbumps because the content itself doesn't justify the time they want invested.