Spotted Hyena Overcrowding (Open To Discussion)

[Shalefoot]

Hello! My name is Shalefoot, and I am starting this thread to be a constructive and civil discussion involving the Spotted Hyena within Planet Zoo!
(Reposted and redirected here from the Steam "Discussions" thread as per request — slight revisions made).

I absolutely love hyenas and they are one of my favorite creatures. Zoo Tycoon 2 was one of my favorite games that captured hyena's mannerisms, hierarchical structure, etc. quite well for its time! With Planet Zoo, there are over 100+ animals to be found in the game, it is inevitable that certain animals may be missing features or may have potential issues involving them.

It is generally accepted that the Spotted Hyena within the wild can have clan sizes ranging from 6-100. However, no matter the size of the enclosure you make within Planet Zoo, if there are more than 4 adult hyenas (regardless of gender) in a habitat together, they will fight. To test this, I created an enclosure that was 500+ miles long. The Spotted Hyena will typically only travel 12.4 km (7.7 miles) in a given day. So how is it that they are considered "overcrowded" by the game's standards?

I must confess that I am not too familiar when it comes to hyenas within captivity versus the wild. While altering the hyena's AI may be more hassle than it is worth, would be it be possible to include a setting for users within Sandbox to disable "overcrowding" limitations? Or does anyone else here have insight into Spotted Hyena clan sizes within captivity?

Feedback from the Steam discussion thread:
• Disable fighting within the Sandbox settings (this would also disable fighting for alpha status, an interesting dynamic/aspect of hierarchical society that I would like within my game).
• Tuning the overcrowding value may resolve this issue (this would either require a modification to the client or an official update from the development team).
• The Spotted Hyena appears to be simulated with smaller group sizes (as stated in the Zoopedia — but I personally would like to have larger groups than only 4 adults).

Can we make it possible to house larger hyena groups in captivity if the proper space was granted (without disabling fighting in Sandbox mode)?

Thank you for reading! I hope we can make a change or learn something new today!

 

[NZFanatic]

They explain in the animal's in-game Zoopedia why they are only allowed small groups.

 

[Shalefoot]

They explain in the animal's in-game Zoopedia why they are only allowed small groups.

"Hyenas are social animals that live in 'clans' of related females, immigrant males and their cubs. They have a communal den which as many as 90 spotted hyenas share for sleeping, mating and giving birth. When individuals leave the den to hunt and roam, they spend this time alone or in small groups of 2 to 4."

An individual commented similarly on the Steam discussion thread I made. It does indeed state why they have the potential to congregate in smaller groups in the Zoopedia (which I also mentioned in the feedback area in the above post). However, I am still curious as to why we are not permitted to create communal dens without having issues of overcrowding.

Even though they travel within smaller groups, they have the potential to find themselves surrounded by nearly one hundred members of their clan once they return to the communal den. Having 4 adults only per exhibit makes sense to housing in captivity, but when granted 500+ miles of space, why does that not permit the addition or introduction of more? Inevitably there would be fighting/contention for dominance, but how could that be considered overcrowding with such a large space?

 

[Urufu1997]

I would also love it to be changed. Some Zoos do successfully keep bigger Groups (I think approximately up to 8 Animals). It would be so great if they would give us this Possibility without the Hyenas always trying to kill each other. Also if it wasn't fixed, it is only possible to keep 3 adult Hyenas in a Enclosure without fighting because the Females will always fight

 

[Shalefoot]

I would also love it to be changed. Some Zoos do successfully keep bigger Groups (I think approximately up to 8 Animals). It would be so great if they would give us this Possibility without the Hyenas always trying to kill each other. Also if it wasn't fixed, it is only possible to keep 3 adult Hyenas in a Enclosure without fighting because the Females will always fight

Quite true! I would rather the females contest for dominance occasionally rather than to have my log being constantly warned with "fighting due to overcrowding." As the numbers of hyenas in an enclosure increase, I believe so long as you maintain the proper sex ratio, no issues of that degree should occur. Atleast, I wouldn't imagine so, haha!

 

[Cocolori]

I have no objection to them changing it in game cos... it's a game but just to say that having worked (very briefly) with hyenas in captivity I can well believe that no size enclosure smaller than an actual whole safari park would be enough to keep your hyenas from trying to kill each other.

I love them dearly because their social life is so unusual and interesting but frankly they are really aggresive animals and in the wild they fight a lot. So if in a clan of 50 they regularly chase off, kill or seriously injure one or two in the course of a year then that's life. People tend to be a little less tolerant of them seriously injuring each other in a captive environment. You only have to look at how the public reacted to the (very interesting I thought) animal autopsies at the zoo in Denmark to know that the public prefer their zoos considerably less gruesome than the wild.

 

[Shalefoot]

I have no objection to them changing it in game cos... it's a game but just to say that having worked (very briefly) with hyenas in captivity I can well believe that no size enclosure smaller than an actual whole safari park would be enough to keep your hyenas from trying to kill each other.

I love them dearly because their social life is so unusual and interesting but frankly they are really aggresive animals and in the wild they fight a lot. So if in a clan of 50 they regularly chase off, kill or seriously injure one or two in the course of a year then that's life. People tend to be a little less tolerant of them seriously injuring each other in a captive environment. You only have to look at how the public reacted to the (very interesting I thought) animal autopsies at the zoo in Denmark to know that the public prefer their zoos considerably less gruesome than the wild.

Fighting between Spotted Hyenas, even of the same clan, is indeed inevitable. I only hope that there is someway to negate it being due to overcrowding without altering the game's files locally (modding). The sandbox setting to "disable animal fights" is all well and good, but it is disheartening to see that it stops any contesting for dominance. If a Spotted Hyena has not achieved the status of "Alpha Female" prior to disabling that setting, there is no potential for them to achieve that rank. Even within a bare bones exhibit with no enrichment, no additional stimuli, etc. — hierarchies cannot form with the "disable animal fights" option toggled. This makes sense, but I wish there was a sub-option for disabling fights due to overcrowding versus fights due to dominance/alpha status.

(GIF example of what was stated above — size too large to attach file):

https://imgur.com/a/vyucru0

Source: https://imgur.com/a/vyucru0

 

[Roxxsmom]

I love spotted hyenas too. They are one of the few mammals where the females are physically larger than the males, and the developmental reasons for this are fascinating. They have huge clan systems in nature, and their social intelligence and ability to keep track of relationships rivals that of bonobos. As I recall from a talk I attended some years ago by a hyena researcher, the males are the ones that disperse upon maturity, not the females, and the status of one's closest female relatives (especially mom) will strongly influence the status of a female offspring, with the female group leader actually giving her eldest female offspring a "leg up" in becoming the next leader.

There is intense competition between female litter mates for this reason, though, and they are born with fully erupted teeth and if two female cubs are born at the same time, they will fight before their eyes are even open. Only one typically survives.

But the game doesn't allow more than one adult female in the group, which is rather contrary to their complex and extensive social networking in the wild. The reason I can think of for this is that (possibly) the restricted space in a zoo enclosure is an element of stress and also makes it harder for animals to get away from one another without serious injury when they are working out their rankings, so only small groups are stable in a typical zoo enclosure. It's also the case that in a zoo, hierarchical squabbling that is normal in nature is nonetheless problematic when you are charged with keeping animals healthy and safe (and guests wouldn't like seeing two or more hyenas ganging up on a sibling or cousin). It's natural for lions to eat zebras too, but zoos don't release surplus zebras into lion enclosures for the same reasons.

I agree that it would be more realistic, possibly, if very large habitats allowed for larger group sizes, though, and this doesn't seem to be the case with this species. As far as realism goes, I don't recall ever seeing a small spotted hyena enclosure at a real zoo with more than a handful of animals either. I'd be interested in seeing a RL zoo where they have a larger space for spotted hyenas.

 

[Shalefoot]

I love spotted hyenas too. They are one of the few mammals where the females are physically larger than the males, and the developmental reasons for this are fascinating. They have huge clan systems in nature, and their social intelligence and ability to keep track of relationships rivals that of bonobos. As I recall from a talk I attended some years ago by a hyena researcher, the males are the ones that disperse upon maturity, not the females, and the status of one's closest female relatives (especially mom) will strongly influence the status of a female offspring, with the female group leader actually giving her eldest female offspring a "leg up" in becoming the next leader.

There is intense competition between female litter mates for this reason, though, and they are born with fully erupted teeth and if two female cubs are born at the same time, they will fight before their eyes are even open. Only one typically survives.

But the game doesn't allow more than one adult female in the group, which is rather contrary to their complex and extensive social networking in the wild. The reason I can think of for this is that (possibly) the restricted space in a zoo enclosure is an element of stress and also makes it harder for animals to get away from one another without serious injury when they are working out their rankings, so only small groups are stable in a typical zoo enclosure. It's also the case that in a zoo, hierarchical squabbling that is normal in nature is nonetheless problematic when you are charged with keeping animals healthy and safe (and guests wouldn't like seeing two or more hyenas ganging up on a sibling or cousin). It's natural for lions to eat zebras too, but zoos don't release surplus zebras into lion enclosures for the same reasons.

I agree that it would be more realistic, possibly, if very large habitats allowed for larger group sizes, though, and this doesn't seem to be the case with this species. As far as realism goes, I don't recall ever seeing a small spotted hyena enclosure at a real zoo with more than a handful of animals either. I'd be interested in seeing a RL zoo where they have a larger space for spotted hyenas.

I agree with a lot of your points, and appreciate your insight here!

I suppose most of my interest/perspective stems from the potential of creating a nature reserve rather than a zoo itself. Perhaps there may be some DLC released with such an addition in mind, but for now I'll hope for a new sandbox setting (for disabling overcrowding only) to be implemented OR for a mod to be released that tackles this issue!

 

[Caileyroo]

If you're in sandbox, you now have a lot more options! I was having issues with my cassowaries, which only allow one male and one female. I turned off social groups (allowing all animals to group together) and overcrowding (just in case, because the message states it pertains to overcrowding). Solved the issue for me, and my gorillas are still fighting for dominance!!