Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

How can anyone spout such corny nonsense like "FUD" about a comical game development project/warning, like it's some high stake 1980s industrial espionage or Scientology PR operation? Maybe Roberts in his bunker could spout on about it, but just a fan on a forum? I'd cringe with shame.

I'm just playing other stuff in VR. It's like a colour TV, only a lot better ;)

* carries on flying around in the GTA VR mod, trying to find that damn UFO... *
Boy, that mod sure works well! It's even compatible with LSPDFR, of course in my game things turn out way more Bad Lieutenant than anything else.

What with the whole hate monkey thing.
 
How can anyone spout such corny nonsense like "FUD" about a comical game development project, like it's some high stake 1980s industrial espionage or Scientology PR operation? Maybe Roberts in his bunker could spout on about it, but just a fan on a forum? I'd cringe with shame.
Let's put it this way: they people spouting it have at times suggested that SC will be a bigger achievement than going to the moon. That also neatly explains why its development time is completely normal for such a complex and challenging endeavour. :D
 
What FUD! SC already eclipsed ED the moment CR dreamt of making SC! You just need to believe!
Yep, SC backers have been saying patch X will eclipse ED for years now. SC backers need to co-ordinate. Every time one of them says patch X+1 will eclipse ED they're basically saying the guy that said patch X will eclipse ED was wrong. Must be getting tired of being wrong by now. :cool:
 
Trouble is...it's too easy to avoid the PvP types out to upset someone's day even in such a small playing area. With 50 players on a server, there may be less than 10 with an inclination for pew, they're mostly flying solo or in pairs...and those of us who are experienced cargo pilots already know where they are. Some of them wrongly assume we always have to go through the fixed QT exit bottlenecks or always land at specific land bases for a particular type of cargo... which isn't what happens at all...So they hang around in space or pick off random newbies who drop onto planets or fly in straight QT lines through inexperience while the potential pew crew remain wondering where the rest of us are... until they eventually get bored and move to another server.

If there's a PvP ganker type hanging around anywhere I'm going, you can almost guarantee I've already spotted him and altering my plans...thanks to having experience in E-D for that one. Every radar blip is a threat be it red or green...no exceptions. It's not exactly difficult spotting them...traders don't fly a Pirate Gladius or fighter build and don't hang around outside the no fire zone of a landing area. If I do spot one, even flying random non QT paths between landing areas on a planet since a few seem to think it makes them invisible or appear non threatening, I'll head back off to the nearest ship spawn point instead of approaching, return in something with teeth and missile spam them till they get bored, explode or I high tail it out again.

The more organised gankers will work in teams, all in different areas looking for potential victims...one will spot a lone cargo ship and via Discord they'll organise and all head off to ambush it and watch it explode...once again, they're not difficult to spot or avoid. They have to guess roughly where I'm headed once I enter QT, I don't have to guess where they think I'm headed. It's just a matter of cancelling the jump, re-routing a few times or just sit somewhere in random space out of QT or head to an R&R stop, go make a coffee and type in the chat for a few minutes.

I'm not much of a combat pilot at all...but I'm pretty good as a cargo ship pilot...in all the time I've played SC, I've only been exploded by another human pilot if I've gone looking for a fight...and always because I'm fairly crap, it's just not my thing.

The US servers have more organised PvP than EU servers as a rule. If I'm looking for pew related stuff as I sometimes do, I pop on there.
But once CIG implement (insert magical tech here) there will be thousands of players on a server!
 
SOCS is coming and limited persistence too with 3.8. CIG has managed several other tech milestones until now. I don't see them stopping. It's not a matter of if but when.

Meshing will be a challenge though.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I did meet Rinzler the other night, had a brief chat... I've passed Harry Potter just the once flying into Lorville, been on the same server as OA and Yamiks as they were doing a stream (separately) but generally, unless folks mention in the chat they've played E-D, I wouldn't know....nor would I care very much since playing one or both is neither a qualification nor dismissal of the other. To be honest, I've met more E-D players (From Xbox or PC) in RDR2 online, Hellion or CoD than I ever have in SC.
Whoa. What with 2.5 million backers and thousands of servers spinning as suggested by all the twitch views what are the odds! :p
 
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Nope, It’s called FUD for a reason that is spread around about CIG. Based in truth, absolutely. Have the made mistakes, absolutely, are they still making mistakes, absolutely. But, its called forward progress. Every company goes through times of mistakes...

Why do you keep calling the next patch a game changer or finally be 90 days, etc. Let it die.... Rehashing those conversations pieces is like discussing the 2012 kickstarter goals. Pointless. They lied, cheated, etc... the original backer... Excellent... Take your refund and move on.... Since then, with their new Scope of work, they are brining in record $$$, as people are seeing the game turn out to be what they want....

People in here seem to forget that people who make their money, and have the ability to buy ships for $1,000, are also smart enough not to throw away their money...
See and I disagree on most of what you wrote.

"Game changer" are not my words. I only repeat what I see thrown around in various threads and comment sections. Most of the comments I read, designed to gloss over the ugly and exaggerate the beauty are patently false or deceptive and cannot be allowed to stand. Thats why you see the same old ring-around happening. I m probably just worn out from repeating myself, sometimes finding the right words, staying patient, staying polite and STILL to no avail. So in the end I would be satisifed with a "draw" within the community because its just so pointless. But then the next SC fan comes out with stuff like "see? told cha /smirk" or trying to establish the old and wrong things as facts and new truth and it triggers me. Would I stand alone against this kind of behavior I would ve walked away a long time ago. I am not THAT invested.

I understand its just people with different views about an "idea" who will never come together. And thats because SC is nothing "but" an idea right now. Its grand and it shows early signs of life but its an idea at the end. Your argument I understand as an attempt to disqualify past behavior, efforts, attempts and to justify the absolute waste of time and resources. I m not like that. Historical context is important and forgetting our history is a sin seeing as people died for it. I wont forget. Neither all the broken promises nor the deceptive and predatory behavior demonstrated by CIG.

CIG might make a come-back (undeserved IMO) but regardless if the project will ever turn out to be a great game or not. That doesnt make all the criticism "go away" or "void". CIG will have to stand up for their past mistakes, for all the years of waste and will have to face the grudge of all the people who were attacked and abused by their own toxic community. Dislike/hate by proxy if you will. CIG did nothing to distance itself from all the fanatics, shills and absolute crazy people and have in fact engaged personally in witch hunts and calling people names. CIG has so often shown unprofessional behavior that I refuse to treat em like ones now.

And the point is not about a "personal decision" as you try to establish.

They lied, cheated, etc... the original backer... Excellent... Take your refund and move on
Most people did just that. But that makes their statements and their view on the project absolute true. And its when they share their view or make a comment that they are confronted by people who DENY them that view just because they "like" the project. Its irrational, its fanatical and its wrong. If CIG did break past promises, did waste money and time and did deceit its community then I can walk away AND comment on that past behavior and because its pretty much established I shouldnt be challenged on it. Yet so many people show a complete lack of knowledge, either about the topic at hand or the project itself, or make the same mistake...."oh yeah, they were bad in the past but they are good now"...and fail to stay in the "now"...instead trying to change memory and history. Refusing past events and attack people who insist on them. And we are talking about the fricking STARTING POINT of the project, thats a recorded and confirmed FACT. You are really surprised that people cannot see eye to eye on most things Star Citizen?

The various articles springing up about Star Citizen? You know...the ones called FUD or "hit pieces" because they dont align with the glorious view of the fanatics (I ll come back to this in a moment)? They are for the most part rehashing the few and old facts we have, sometimes dabbling into opinion pieces but for the most part I consider them all pretty "timid". 250$ million in crowdfunding. An alpha in its 8th year or development. The problem is that the facts on their own, without any kind of explanation or justification provided sound pretty bad. But THATS journalism. Just listing the facts, not trying to affect opinion. Its pretty rare these days.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS. But because they dont immediately forgive, excuse or justify those bad-sounding numbers they are deemed "hate". Thats how you can tell you are dealing with fanatics. Its people who disregard and outright "forget" all the bad things just because they are going through a "good" phase right now. Because outside criticism directed agaimst the project is perceived as a threat to peoples own well-being, you think that is a "healthy" and "distanced" attiude toward the project or topic in general? We discussed this to death you should know.

I m sticking around because of all the people in the past who attacked me, called me names, tried to discredit or ridicule me. I dont really care about Star Citizen at all. And its history so far will ensure that I will always have a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to Star Citizen regardless how it ll turn out. You are willing to bury all the dead and the bad things in order to bask in the glory. I wont forget our history. But even if I m right and SC turns out to be a scam or utter failure I wont deny the project its moments. The "potential" and the immense support by little people who made it a possebility. Thats why what I can see (waste of resources and time, mismanagement, incompetence) is so painful. And it shouldnt be swept under the rug.

No outside gamer will notice the game and jump in with a 1000 dollar investment. People refuse to buy "good" games for full prize and we are talking 60 bucks here. Trying to suggest that previously unaffiliated gamers came to SC and tipped the funding meter in that way is ridiculous and also not confirmed through what we can read. It rather looks like the latest CitizenCON hit the "sweet spot" for many of the heavily indoctrinated and made them dig deep. I m staying with the fanatical resemblances because the behavior shown is absolutely fanatical. I dont call every SC fan a fantic or cultist but the people who act like those....absolutely.

We spend money on things we like. That doesnt make us "rich" or "good with money". Either you make an innocent mistake or you simply didnt evaluate the facts. We all have money. I do command thousands of dollars (euros really...) I could spend on whatever I like. I m not rich. And just because I DO spend money on stuff others deem a luxury doesnt mean I m wealthy or good with money. Thats a basic mistake and easily disregarded, proven wrong.

With the behavior shown by many SC fans I can easily assume that they are spending more then they can or should and most of the "I m rich...yoh" statements are justifications and not the truth.

Banks and casinos have called and they can provide a MEGA list of people who can afford 1000$ spendings but are usually not so smart with money in the first place. Again, could be an innocent mistake or an attempt to present Star Citizen as a "good investment" and "safe bet" on your part. Such comments, if unchallenged are dangerous.

Whats probably true is that Star Citizen fans are risk-takers by nature. Thats something I could accept, not the "they are visionary" or "they are good with money" (sorry...but...) crap I see floating around. But that of course explains so many things. The sensitivity toward criticism when they themselves cannot be sure and understand that it can all fall apart in a hearts beat. The doubling-down and taking an absolute stance refusing to accept negative facts and reality because it threatens the success. Throwing good money after bad (a phenomenon that you can again observe in casinos or with people who put all their eggs into one basket). Increasingly higher agressive behavior towards critical or opposing voices. The use of "cult" or "fanatics" is not a mistake and even tho its used lightly these days the implications are very serious in my eyes. Fanaticism is always bad but sometimes it can be understood or at least reconstructed. Belief, partnership, risk of personal or mental health. The argument often used in SCs defense that its "just a video game" comes back and makes all this agression even more sad. And we talked about this.

EVERY game has its fanboys. I was discussing Borderlands topics calling the things how I saw em and I was attacked and engaged by fanboys refusing everything I wrote, claiming made-up things and generally trying to dismiss me. I had serious SC-discussion flash-backs but then I am discussing flatearth ore religious thematics online as well and had the same feeling. Its the exact same people the exact same behavior, the exact same pattern. But because Borderlands is a "normal community" these things were either rare or not as extreme because most people are happy with the game and distanced enough to stay with the facts. So you do have those break-outs of hostility but they usually calm down very quickly because of the rest of the people weighting in. By comparison Star Citizen is anything BUT a "normal" community at this point. And it could be by accident or it could be by design but fact is that the majority of SCs community (of which I am a part too) is overly invested and has moved to extreme points on the scale. People who are able to stay detached or uninvolved seem to be the absolute minority. And the reason for that is Star Citizens eternal limbo state. Its not moving into a definitive direction we can observe or at least agree on. Progress or failure rather are individual perceptions depending on how we "chose" to interprete things. Thats why we should aim to stay with facts and objective observations rather then delve into personal interpretations or shilling.

People who are good with money, can afford to spend thousands of dollars on "water" and what other glorious qualifications you want to grant them wouldnt show this kind of attachment towards SC in the first place. They would rather be detached, refuse to get drawn into arguments (waste of time) and let things pan out. But thats now what we can observe in the community now can we? Instead SC defense usually starts with personal attacks or denial and here we are.

The probability that we are talking about individuals who got drawn in and realize how bad their spending is (or dont) but justify it internally by all kinds of made-up reasons is a LOT higher then the "they are rich and good with money" explanation.

Neither does the increased spending on SC make it a better game in my eyes. The things I critzised a week ago are still valid.

Is it possible that SC fans are good with money and have tons to spend it on stuff like this? Sure....its not really important in our line of discussion tho and it would be (IMO) ridiculous to assume that all SC whales or spenders are in that group of people.

So you see the both of us disagree heavily on most things. The difference is that I usually use more words then you do :)
 
Yeah, that is what I keep saying to all those Madoff, Theranos, Enron, Fyre Festival or Lehman Brothers naysayers.
Or closer to target, what about all those Shroud of the Avatar naysayers? Aging rockstar developer, crowdfunded game, sale of in-game items for hundreds or thousands of dollars! They even had a crossover promotion with SC!

And just look how well that is doing! Next patch is surely going to be the one that makes SoTA great!
 

Up front, they dont really know anything but just another example how the few facts alone are reason enough to point and wonder or clickbait the rest of the gaming community.
 
See and I disagree on most of what you wrote.

"Game changer" are not my words. I only repeat what I see thrown around in various threads and comment sections. Most of the comments I read, designed to gloss over the ugly and exaggerate the beauty are patently false or deceptive and cannot be allowed to stand. Thats why you see the same old ring-around happening. I m probably just worn out from repeating myself, sometimes finding the right words, staying patient, staying polite and STILL to no avail. So in the end I would be satisifed with a "draw" within the community because its just so pointless. But then the next SC fan comes out with stuff like "see? told cha /smirk" or trying to establish the old and wrong things as facts and new truth and it triggers me. Would I stand alone against this kind of behavior I would ve walked away a long time ago. I am not THAT invested.

I understand its just people with different views about an "idea" who will never come together. And thats because SC is nothing "but" an idea right now. Its grand and it shows early signs of life but its an idea at the end. Your argument I understand as an attempt to disqualify past behavior, efforts, attempts and to justify the absolute waste of time and resources. I m not like that. Historical context is important and forgetting our history is a sin seeing as people died for it. I wont forget. Neither all the broken promises nor the deceptive and predatory behavior demonstrated by CIG.

CIG might make a come-back (undeserved IMO) but regardless if the project will ever turn out to be a great game or not. That doesnt make all the criticism "go away" or "void". CIG will have to stand up for their past mistakes, for all the years of waste and will have to face the grudge of all the people who were attacked and abused by their own toxic community. Dislike/hate by proxy if you will. CIG did nothing to distance itself from all the fanatics, shills and absolute crazy people and have in fact engaged personally in witch hunts and calling people names. CIG has so often shown unprofessional behavior that I refuse to treat em like ones now.

And the point is not about a "personal decision" as you try to establish.



Most people did just that. But that makes their statements and their view on the project absolute true. And its when they share their view or make a comment that they are confronted by people who DENY them that view just because they "like" the project. Its irrational, its fanatical and its wrong. If CIG did break past promises, did waste money and time and did deceit its community then I can walk away AND comment on that past behavior and because its pretty much established I shouldnt be challenged on it. Yet so many people show a complete lack of knowledge, either about the topic at hand or the project itself, or make the same mistake...."oh yeah, they were bad in the past but they are good now"...and fail to stay in the "now"...instead trying to change memory and history. Refusing past events and attack people who insist on them. And we are talking about the fricking STARTING POINT of the project, thats a recorded and confirmed FACT. You are really surprised that people cannot see eye to eye on most things Star Citizen?

The various articles springing up about Star Citizen? You know...the ones called FUD or "hit pieces" because they dont align with the glorious view of the fanatics (I ll come back to this in a moment)? They are for the most part rehashing the few and old facts we have, sometimes dabbling into opinion pieces but for the most part I consider them all pretty "timid". 250$ million in crowdfunding. An alpha in its 8th year or development. The problem is that the facts on their own, without any kind of explanation or justification provided sound pretty bad. But THATS journalism. Just listing the facts, not trying to affect opinion. Its pretty rare these days.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS. But because they dont immediately forgive, excuse or justify those bad-sounding numbers they are deemed "hate". Thats how you can tell you are dealing with fanatics. Its people who disregard and outright "forget" all the bad things just because they are going through a "good" phase right now. Because outside criticism directed agaimst the project is perceived as a threat to peoples own well-being, you think that is a "healthy" and "distanced" attiude toward the project or topic in general? We discussed this to death you should know.

I m sticking around because of all the people in the past who attacked me, called me names, tried to discredit or ridicule me. I dont really care about Star Citizen at all. And its history so far will ensure that I will always have a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to Star Citizen regardless how it ll turn out. You are willing to bury all the dead and the bad things in order to bask in the glory. I wont forget our history. But even if I m right and SC turns out to be a scam or utter failure I wont deny the project its moments. The "potential" and the immense support by little people who made it a possebility. Thats why what I can see (waste of resources and time, mismanagement, incompetence) is so painful. And it shouldnt be swept under the rug.

No outside gamer will notice the game and jump in with a 1000 dollar investment. People refuse to buy "good" games for full prize and we are talking 60 bucks here. Trying to suggest that previously unaffiliated gamers came to SC and tipped the funding meter in that way is ridiculous and also not confirmed through what we can read. It rather looks like the latest CitizenCON hit the "sweet spot" for many of the heavily indoctrinated and made them dig deep. I m staying with the fanatical resemblances because the behavior shown is absolutely fanatical. I dont call every SC fan a fantic or cultist but the people who act like those....absolutely.

We spend money on things we like. That doesnt make us "rich" or "good with money". Either you make an innocent mistake or you simply didnt evaluate the facts. We all have money. I do command thousands of dollars (euros really...) I could spend on whatever I like. I m not rich. And just because I DO spend money on stuff others deem a luxury doesnt mean I m wealthy or good with money. Thats a basic mistake and easily disregarded, proven wrong.

With the behavior shown by many SC fans I can easily assume that they are spending more then they can or should and most of the "I m rich...yoh" statements are justifications and not the truth.

Banks and casinos have called and they can provide a MEGA list of people who can afford 1000$ spendings but are usually not so smart with money in the first place. Again, could be an innocent mistake or an attempt to present Star Citizen as a "good investment" and "safe bet" on your part. Such comments, if unchallenged are dangerous.

Whats probably true is that Star Citizen fans are risk-takers by nature. Thats something I could accept, not the "they are visionary" or "they are good with money" (sorry...but...) crap I see floating around. But that of course explains so many things. The sensitivity toward criticism when they themselves cannot be sure and understand that it can all fall apart in a hearts beat. The doubling-down and taking an absolute stance refusing to accept negative facts and reality because it threatens the success. Throwing good money after bad (a phenomenon that you can again observe in casinos or with people who put all their eggs into one basket). Increasingly higher agressive behavior towards critical or opposing voices. The use of "cult" or "fanatics" is not a mistake and even tho its used lightly these days the implications are very serious in my eyes. Fanaticism is always bad but sometimes it can be understood or at least reconstructed. Belief, partnership, risk of personal or mental health. The argument often used in SCs defense that its "just a video game" comes back and makes all this agression even more sad. And we talked about this.

EVERY game has its fanboys. I was discussing Borderlands topics calling the things how I saw em and I was attacked and engaged by fanboys refusing everything I wrote, claiming made-up things and generally trying to dismiss me. I had serious SC-discussion flash-backs but then I am discussing flatearth ore religious thematics online as well and had the same feeling. Its the exact same people the exact same behavior, the exact same pattern. But because Borderlands is a "normal community" these things were either rare or not as extreme because most people are happy with the game and distanced enough to stay with the facts. So you do have those break-outs of hostility but they usually calm down very quickly because of the rest of the people weighting in. By comparison Star Citizen is anything BUT a "normal" community at this point. And it could be by accident or it could be by design but fact is that the majority of SCs community (of which I am a part too) is overly invested and has moved to extreme points on the scale. People who are able to stay detached or uninvolved seem to be the absolute minority. And the reason for that is Star Citizens eternal limbo state. Its not moving into a definitive direction we can observe or at least agree on. Progress or failure rather are individual perceptions depending on how we "chose" to interprete things. Thats why we should aim to stay with facts and objective observations rather then delve into personal interpretations or shilling.

People who are good with money, can afford to spend thousands of dollars on "water" and what other glorious qualifications you want to grant them wouldnt show this kind of attachment towards SC in the first place. They would rather be detached, refuse to get drawn into arguments (waste of time) and let things pan out. But thats now what we can observe in the community now can we? Instead SC defense usually starts with personal attacks or denial and here we are.

The probability that we are talking about individuals who got drawn in and realize how bad their spending is (or dont) but justify it internally by all kinds of made-up reasons is a LOT higher then the "they are rich and good with money" explanation.

Neither does the increased spending on SC make it a better game in my eyes. The things I critzised a week ago are still valid.

Is it possible that SC fans are good with money and have tons to spend it on stuff like this? Sure....its not really important in our line of discussion tho and it would be (IMO) ridiculous to assume that all SC whales or spenders are in that group of people.

So you see the both of us disagree heavily on most things. The difference is that I usually use more words then you do :)
Word!

Well, actually lots of words, but well said nontheless.

You raise the point about people cheering it on because the going is good and forgetting/ignoring/dismissing the bad things that CIG did. But things can change. CIG decide to make a change that the hardcore fans just can't handle. The most vociferous proponents can become the most vocal opponents. There is a recent case of one of the "cultists" absoloutly losing his mind over CIG changing the shape of the engines on his favourite ship. He even declared if CIG did't change it back he would sell his ships on the grey market and it will be "CIG's loss" (guy obviously doesn't quite understanding that CIG lose nothing with this, only he does). He's one step away from becoming a dirty refundian over a change to the shape of a ship's engines. This is a guy who has on many occasions disparaged refundians, called them FUDsters, trolls, Derek Smart shills, etc, for wanting refunds over much more serious issues.

Imagine his reaction if CIG did something that was more serious that he didn't like!
 
Well you’re wrong. Go to page 3 of the Cutter owners group. You can see when I had my first 500,000. Credits!!!!

Or go to page 9 of the first SAG-A trip tread. Where I brought my B rated Conda with a 28LY jump range to the center.

Or page 1 of the Clipper page!!!

Or the start of Mobius group, as I was an original there.

Or the very first page of the fuel rates, where i volunteered

Young pups!!! Their everywhere!!!!
For Gondor!
 
Well, it will at least be interesting with 3.8 and Microtech to see just how detailed the nature aspect of the planet is.

It seemed to be incredibly detailed but the yardstick i will compare it against will be Hunter: Call of the Wild.
 
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