Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

One other thing, a finished released game is not what Star Citizen is, its a game very much under construction and we have access to it during its construction.

I know a lot of you don't like that being said, its seen as an excuse, its not, its a fact.

If CIG shut the servers down tomorrow and said they wont be coming back until the game is in a released state would that be more to your liking?

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. We know its a game very much under construction.

I'd like to see what would happen if CIG shut down the servers, funding would whither pretty quickly i think.

I think you're missing the point somewhere though. The problem isn't with an open alpha (although having an open alpha of course comes with certain baggage).

The problems stem from the things CIG have said and done during this time. The fact that the alpha is open is just a good source of amusement when we get to laugh at some of the bugs.
 
April 2013:



December 2015 (Vid now private - Reddit discussions from the time here and here)



August 2018



There used to be an upper bound cap of 150,000 UEC on how many credits you could accrue pre-launch but that was removed in 2018. There is still a 24hr limit of 25k (approx $30) per 24hrs.

Kvdh7GL.png

Thanks for the sources. Was worried for a moment that Intrepid would declare i was making it up because he hasn't heard of it.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
One other thing, a finished released game is not what Star Citizen is, its a game very much under construction and we have access to it during its construction.

I know a lot of you don't like that being said, its seen as an excuse, its not, its a fact.

If CIG shut the servers down tomorrow and said they wont be coming back until the game is in a released state would that be more to your liking?

The thing is that is not a fact, at best it is a partial truth. It is not that simple.

Saying a game is just "under construction" conveys the idea it is all as planned and normal. After all anything created had to be under construction at some point no?

The issue with Star Citizen is precisely that it is one of the game projects that has been "under construction" for the longest time due to all kind of technology problems and mismanagement in the first place. The amount of still missing content suggests it will be indeed the game with the longest development time before release ever recorded asuming it gets to completion as described and promised.

In the mean time and as a result of all those technical issues and mismanagement the amount of game breaking bugs, game breaking glitches, low performance and instability after all this time is untold.

As for your question regarding shutting down servers and only coming back when the product is ready or nearly ready, well, CIG managed to receive (asuming we believe their tracker) 120 times more money than they asked for in the original Kickstarter (Kickstarter required was 0.5 millions and CIG had 65 millions by the end of the stretch goals series in 2014). So if they had managed the project and their funds properly, and barring any technical issues (which they seem to have a ton of sadly) they would have been able to do exactly that.
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
There is still a 24hr limit of 25k (approx $30) per 24hrs.

Kvdh7GL.png
That is still not a cap though. Just an increase in real money costs for in the in game money: Players can simply purchase additional accounts and buy as much in game credits as they want with them in any given day, then transfer all that to the single account of their choice.

There is no real cap. The way things are proposed the only thing that limits real money purchases of in game credits is the size of a players wallet, irrespective of how efficient we may think the game credits actually are in game.
 
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Thanks for the sources. Was worried for a moment that Intrepid would declare i was making it up because he hasn't heard of it.
Same as with Chris' handwaving, CIG are expert in the art of noise (pun to recent digression intended ;)), an useful two edged sword that help fueling the dream all the while covering the tracks as with so many years, layers and contradictory versions of the same topic it's difficult to grasp what's currently true.

Quite useful for the faithful too as they can adapt "facts" to suit their current narrative. Hence the "It's a better game than many released AAA, but it's an alpha", "it's procedurally handcrafted", "it's CryEngine but also Lumberyard but also Frankengine", "it's OK because other games do the same, but SC is not like other games and CIG makes things never done before", and so one. And so as easy as snapping fingers they can swipe off any argumentation with excuses like "this doesn't apply because dev only started I 20xx"

And sorry dear @Viajero but yes, it's a fact: CIG gobbled $400+M in 10 years span and only currently happen to make an alpha (though compared relatively to many of the other recent alpha games I played, and the millions of km of roads CIG have yet to cross to reach something substantial, I have hard times considering SC as alpha). So how many times this amount of money and dev time for a finished product?
 
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The thing is that is not a fact, at best it is a partial truth. It is not that simple.

Saying a game is just "under construction" conveys the idea it is all as planned and normal. After all anything created had to be under construction at some point no?

The issue with Star Citizen is precisely that it is one of the game projects that has been "under construction" for the longest time due to all kind of technoloy problems and mismanagement in the first place. The amount of still missing content suggests it will be indeed the game with the longest development time before release ever recorded asuming it gets to completion as described and promised.

In the mean time and as a result of all those technical issues and mismanagement the amount of game breaking bugs, game breaking glitches, low performance and instability after all this time is untold.

As for your question regarding shutting down servers and only coming back when the product is ready or nearly ready, well, CIG managed to receive (asuming we believe their tracker) 120 times more money than they asked for in the original Kickstarter (Kickstarter required was 0.5 millions and CIG had 65 millions by the end of the stretch goals series in 2014). So if they had managed the project and their funds properly, and barring any technical issues (which they seem to have a ton of sadly) they would have been able to do exactly that.

Or, and hear me out, they had absoloutely zero clue how much time and money they really needed to make what they wanted to make and were just throwing numbers at the wall and seeing what stuck.
 
That is still not a cap though. Just an increase in real money costs for in the in game money: Players can simply purchase additional accounts and buy as much in game credits as they want with them in any given day, then transfer all that to the single account of their choice.

There is no real cap. The way things are proposed the only thing that limits real money purchases of in game credits is the size of a players wallet, irrespective of how efficient we may think the game credits actually are in game.

Yep, credit transfer between accounts is a thing. And also, there's no cap on ship purchases ;)

Ultimately somebody would have to be pretty dumb to stockpile UEC heavily as things stand. Stockpiling ships would be a better way to build a war chest. But as Dementropy points out, it's the P2W (Or 'Pay to Play Your Way' ;)) system that they've planned for post launch, and it has plenty of flex in it. The attractiveness and utility of credit purchases can certainly be dialled up post-launch.
 
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Or, and hear me out, they had absoloutely zero clue how much time and money they really needed to make what they wanted to make and were just throwing numbers at the wall and seeing what stuck.
It is hard to estimate how much resources one needs when one has no idea what one is building. Everything Handwaved Space Shooter Second Life is not a design, neither it is a vision. It is a narrative device for marketing purposes and a dopamine pump for the narcissistic "visionary".
 
That is a myth. It's true 24fps is enough to blend one image to the other by the brain, but the eye can see more just fine. Movies are shot at 24fps but displayed at many multiples of that, typically 60, 120, 240, 300 etc, the refresh rate, with each image shown multiple times.

The reason movies are shot at 24fps is to correctly sync up audio during playback, and also save on film when they are shot on film. More recently 4k video is shot at 60fps digitally and displayed at multiples of that to produce more smooth motion. Yes, this is visible with the naked eye, can see it even on youtube with highly compressed 4k video.

For games 24fps produces jerky motion, even if the images blend together just fine when standing still. When moving the reaction time of rendering the new frame is higher wtih a lower fps and that looks jerky. The higher the FPS, up to refresh rate, the smoother the motion appears, especially as resolution increases and thus more details are visible in each frame.

For competitive games high FPS is a requirement to decrease time delay between movement and seeing something on screen. This provides a competitive advantage. Refresh rate / frames per second = latency of seeing something appear on screen.

Indeed. The brain processes visual input in a variety of ways at the same time, like peripheral vision that's basically not updated until something moves to your centre of focus which can be incredibly sensitive. So for something requiring attention aka a game the smoother the better!
 
I have never heard of a game under development having live users celebrating it's persistance. That's just a release. Software is out there. People are playing it. People are sinking time and money into it just like any other released game. The idea that there is some kind of paradym change in which they "crunch" a release, fix all the bugs etc is now a fallacy, there's no release date and no plan for that.

Developer has to work around the people playing the game. So it's a post release tech debt world that CIG are integrating updates with.

They just slap the "alpha" word on because it neatly avoids accountability, support, critique, stability etc.

Same as any other piece of entertainment software you paid for and gets post release "updates".
 
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I have never heard of a game under development having live users celebrating it's persistance. That's just a release. Software is out there. People are playing it.

Getting hung up on semantics, "What is release anyway?" or "What do you mean release, we're at 3.xx already" is a common theme when people want to deflect criticism.

If I told my client "You're using it already!" in response to "This software you wrote for me is buggy as all hell", he'd rightly ask for his money back.
 
Getting hung up on semantics, "What is release anyway?" or "What do you mean release, we're at 3.xx already" is a common theme when people want to deflect criticism.

If I told my client "You're using it already!" in response to "This software you wrote for me is buggy as all hell", he'd rightly ask for his money back.
That's why they try to not use "buy" but rather fantasize about "pledging" and amend their ToS to rule out "money back".
 
Congratulations to 3.13 for being at least three weeks late today.
Just had another update for the PTU...live release might be nearer Friday of this week minus all the mildly interesting bits that once again have slid off the ever sloping shelf of the roadmap. Then again...it might not.

They've got nothing of interest to actually release this quarter except for the Hercules Starlifters in 3.13.x...now put further back by an additional month because of the delayed 3.13 release build. They're saving some of the stuff for Invictus week in May to make the big sales event worthwhile for the idiots who'll invariably be spending money ...another fine example of content release being controlled and dictated by marketing :)
 
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April 2013:



December 2015 (Vid now private - Reddit discussions from the time here and here)



August 2018



There used to be an upper bound cap of 150,000 UEC on how many credits you could accrue pre-launch but that was removed in 2018. There is still a 24hr limit of 25k (approx $30) per 24hrs.

Kvdh7GL.png

Some of the bugs on that list have been fixed, new ones have appeared.

We should, but can, only hold CIG responsible for bugs as and when they are, accumulating bugs from past and present holding them up as if they are a perpetual problem is disingenuous at best, its not a good way to make a point.

I've had a look at some of these bugs in the latest patch.

Getting out of your seat and moving around the ship during QT is no longer fraught with peril. But, with the Hammerhead there is a new bug where sometimes the outer turret door doesn't open when getting out of the turret, that's been there since 3.12. its a large Multicrew ship, the door can be opened by someone on the other side, you just have to get the copilot to run around opening everyones door for them.
Source: https://youtu.be/JkgOMow_uYM?t=190


Vehicles no longer have a seizure in ships elevators. Yea i couldn't find the external button for the lift....
Source: https://youtu.be/XLbBsUvVaqY?t=185


And the Parasite Ship on the back of the Connie now works, it docks and undocks, this is very welcome and has been a long time waiting.
Source: https://youtu.be/HvKF_ecRcso?t=15


I think they fixed the First Person weapon reload / not shooting bug too, no more "inspect" to get it to work, i'll test that later if anyone is interested.
 
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I've had a look at some of these bugs in the latest patch.

Getting out of your seat and moving around the ship during QT is no longer fraught with peril. But, with the Hammerhead there is a new bug where sometimes the outer turret door doesn't open when getting out of the turret, that's been there since 3.12. its a large Multicrew ship, the door can be opened by someone on the other side, you just have to get the copilot to run around opening everyones door for them.
Source: https://youtu.be/JkgOMow_uYM?t=190


Vehicles no longer have a seizure in ships elevators.
Source: https://youtu.be/XLbBsUvVaqY?t=185


And the Parasite Ship on the back of the Connie now works, it docks and undocks, this is very welcome and has been a long time waiting.
Source: https://youtu.be/HvKF_ecRcso?t=15


I think they fixed the First Person weapon reload / not shooting bug too, no more "inspect" to get it to work, i'll test that later if anyone is interested.
I haven't been able to test any of that stuff when I've ventured into the PTU...the elevator in Area 18 from the habs hasn't opened in any session for me so far. So, I'm trapped unless I delete and recopy my account to PTU to select another spawn area. I'll just wait for 3.13 to go live...whenever that might be. Nice that they've fixed the elevator physics in the Connies though...or at least in PTU, it's only taken them 5 years to do it. We'll see how that goes when the patch hits the live servers :)
 
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