Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Hey all,
We're happy for forum users to discuss other games here, however please remember that posts should never negatively target other individuals, whether they be content creators in other games or not. Always discuss the topic not the person.

Hold up!

What you just said could have large ramifications for discussions in this thread.

Does this mean we can't say things like Chris Roberts is an incompetent project manager? Does this mean we can't say things like Jorunn is a fanboy?

I always understood the rules of the forum only extended so far in terms of protection for people who are not members of the forum.
I'm gonna be honest with you. I want Mole to influence me!
You're still not having my stuffz...I need it to melt Jorunn's yacht club mates as they bask beside the pool on his bling barge wearing their complimentary CR monogrammed gold budgie smugglers ;)

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"Budgie smugglers"? I think I might have heard that expression once.
I never thought I would ever have trouble penning the description of a mental image until now...think very tight male swimwear like the kind favoured by Olympic athletes and you'll get the picture of where the term 'budgie smugglers' comes from. I think it's an Australian term originally...or I at least first heard it from an Aussie TV advert :D

I never thought I would ever have trouble penning the description of a mental image until now...think very tight male swimwear like the kind favoured by Olympic athletes and you'll get the picture of where the term 'budgie smugglers' comes from. I think it's an Australian term originally...or I at least first heard it from an Aussie :D
I overheard women talking about budgies and was like "Daaw! They're so affectionate about the little birb!" except they weren't...
Because I am considerate of you ignorants :love::love: I m going to do a spoiler for easy dismissal, you are welcome ^^

Doesn't really fit what happens in this thread, does it. Like at all ;)

To be fair it probably does if you have no idea whats happening, came late to the party and havent paid attention to the course of topic and just scream something into the discussion to have said something which makes it weird for everybody

"I can do whatever I like with MY money"

At this point in time, after numerous iterations of said argument I m not sure how to take it other than a weak attempt of deflection. Nobody cares what people do with their money. If somebody believes this is the case he/she needs to go back a few threads and read up. On the same note, after numerous attempts of manipulative people coming and going over years I m not sure how to take a...

"Hey guys, I m new and just stumbled in here, I m playing SC and have super fun, do you guys also think its the bestest game ever?"

...Quote anymore other than a weak attempt at disguising your agenda. Its certainly not innocent and if it is the follow-up posts usually make crystal clear what it originally was. And as people have pointed out (Golgot among them) it usually doesnt take much to figure out what a person "really" is saying even if they think they are slick about it.

As for the people ferociously digging the holes they realize they cannot get out of anymore....please continue. Usually I come to the site, spotting new 20 pages to read up on and roll my eyes but this is delicious ^^ I m sure Mole is going to post a "🍿🍿🍿" later. I m just gonna +1 it ^^

Mass Effect Andromeda had wurmies and look where did they get it to...

Its something that we hardly touched so far. I see so many games who were less then successfull over the last 10 years which had....

  • visuals on the level of Star Citizen
  • completed game loops
  • depth and complexity
  • less bugs than Star Citizen
  • content

(and yes Andromeda as well as Anthem or Fallout76 "bad" as they were check those criteria to a degree where SC wouldnt even make it onto the list)

and all of that didnt safe them from a low score or scathing reviews. Out of the things I listed Star Citizen only has one and shows no capabilities to introduce the rest. Now the white knights and sycophants are dancing in the streets praising CiG for its reluctance to progress or release shouting "TAKE YOUR TIME, TAKE YOUR TIME" but its fair to question the validity of this strategy when the history of Star Citizens development show a gross inability to come true on their promises. Adding more time (and more money) wont fix the problem. Its something I would call "obvious" but it seems a lot of people have a blind spot when it comes to Star Citizen resulting in extreme double bias or ignorance or even tolerance.

Andromeda specifically wasnt a bad game per se but it lacked the success rate the publisher projected and thus was dropped like hot iron after a couple attempts to change the course. A lot of games are promising but so slowgoing aka offering so low return investments that involved parties stop funding it which terminates a promising idea before it can take off. Similar to SCs "mining" or "walking around" Anthem also had this idea about a different approach that made it stand out and arguably the flying actually was fun. I certainly had fun playing the game for what it offered. Doesnt mean that all the criticism Anthem received was not and is not justified and it really fell behind on expectations.

I can see the logic behind people trying to justify CiGs lack of progress but its not really whats happening here. Star Citizen STARTED OUT as a project where people were granting Roberts an opportunity free of charge. Kickstarter truly was a high risk investment and I dare to say that whoever participated in the KS knew that. Everything after the kickstarter writes a story that doesnt lead to "BDSSE" anymore. We ve had ample time to judge and evaluate Star Citizens development as well as CiGs integrity and honesty and its fair to say that all of them were found lacking. Some might say "but CiG is trying their best...they are innocent..its not a scam" and to be honest, I cant believe that anymore. Not with the level of money thats involved and which is carefully directed and tunneled into all kinds of endeavors remaining a secret. CiG has demonstrated a remarkable level of opacity when it comes to development-related information.

Now the mantra is (but has been for years...) "Star Citizen will release when its ready" but frankly, the TRUE meaning of that statement is "its never coming" because the industry doesnt stand still and competitors dont sleep. There are games on the market which aged well or are even made in retro visuals to honor their roots. Same as with Star Citizen I can look past the blocky 8bit graphic and see the gem thasts hiding undernearth even if the game itself doesnt interest me (Starbound among many others). I can respect the effort or depth or the potential which usually hasnt been realized due to a lack of funding or support. A lot of Indi developers work on pet projects in their free time alone supported by token amounts of money and what they create is mindblowing really.

CiG is not one of those game developers even tho they like to portrait themselves as one. CiG is a multi-million dollar corporation with a teamsize that rivals well established (and hated) publishers only they DONT produce the same amount of results. They simply dont and if people willingly burn and judge any of those publisher products I think we need to be fair and apply the same standard of judgement or rational to Star Citizen. which point the whole house of mental cards comes crashing down.

TAKE AS MUCH TIME AS YOU NEED translates into "one year from now we gonna have to introduce new things to stay current" and thus the work never ends because at this point of time SC is playing "catch up" and its losing ground. Athletics are full of examples where the last one in ranking wins. You know....the 400m sprinter in the last slot passing everybody to win the race or the underdog scoring a perfect 10/10 performance. Oftentimes its extraordinairy examples and flukes, exceptional events which make observing them so special in the first place.

Its a mistake to think Star Citizen can do this. Mathematics and other facts of life dont work that way. If you want to fly you have to produce enough uplift in order to beat gravity. There are no unknowns, we have a firm understanding of the numbers involved and several ways to accomplish the desired result. Oftentimes these days the challenge is not to fly anymore but HOW you do it. Genius and smart techniques that allow you to produce a result without spending millions or having a large workforce.

Game development might look mysterious to many but its really not that complex to the people who do it for a living. Whats special are the claims and of course if somebody can think of a way to accomplish something without muscling their way through in short....efficiency. Elon Musks Tesla is such a success because its more efficient than the competition. Todays space industries demonstrate a level of efficiency that makes spaceflight worthwhile. It wasnt back in the 50s when NASA was running the show (but they were the first so....)

Lets take EFFICIENCY and apply it to Star Citizen.

Personally I have to supress giggling at the thought because its seems so absurd. Whoever says CiG knows what they are doing or are on track needs to explain the discrepancies I can clearly see when I compare it to other games and their development processes. I can certainly see enough claims of smart design and efficiency but the results state that its a pure muscle effort without much smarts involved. Cookie-cutter solutions or copy-paste rip-offs from actual games mark SCs development and so far only a small number of results stand out or do they?

I have asked "why isnt X4 seen as the new Star Citizen" because based on what it provides it checks off everything SC fans want. The answer is pretty sobering.

"its not Star Citizen" followed by a string of arguments that are either wrong, falsified or dont provide the intended support.

So maybe Star Citizen is doing something nobody did before? Like NASA that would allow you to disregard cost and efficiency and lots of people do just this but we have talked about this and found it unwarranted. Nothing Star Citizen does is extraordinairy or remarkable once you scratch off all the things you know they cant do. Like 1000s of players or hundreds of systems. Because THAT would be actually pretty impressive but they cant do it so what is left? Nothing special.

And that "nothing special" obviously works for some people I just dont see how "working for some" is akin to a demonstration of superiority or eventual success like so many seem to believe.

4 more years and a couple hundred million dollars wont fix the problems at hand. If CiG cannot do what they claim with what they currenty have all that remains is "they cant do it". If they could and it was simply a matter of time we would have a different trajectory, a different development history and ultimately a different Star Citizen 10 years into the making.

Star Citizen 2015 (first PTU iteration) anjd Star Citizen today are pretty much the same picture. CiG used the time to apply color to the corners and borders, thats all. The picture looked great in black and white and as a sketch. The years that passed have been pretty much a waste in terms of progress to be honest. Yes there has been progress but its no equivalent to the amount of resources and time going into the project.

My reasoning is that if Star Citizen shows a hunger for money to stay afloat but lacks any evidence for said resources coming out of it there must be another reason. When your body lacks expected capabilities you either adjust certain things like nourishment or regeneration phases or training or you check for parasites. I dont really see CiG trying to figure out whats happening anymore. Looks to me as if they know exactly whats happening and what they can do and the behavior I can observe is equual to a bloodsucking worm who tries to fool you into thinking "this is fine, nothing abnormal" in order to stay alive on your behalf.

If you are "okay" with CiG playing you for a fool, taking your money and telling you "the drops hitting your face are rain my dude" than thats that. You wanne believe that thats your choice. Problems start when you come out of your bubble to tell the rest of the world THEY are wrong tho because at that point you are facing reality and reality doesnt give a crap.

In my case, i have no interest in interacting with Jorunn. He's a lost cause. I'm sure he will continue to believe in Magic Roberts even if CIG shuts down and CR rides off into the sunset. He will probably try and start a Kickstarter campaign to get access to the source code and assets and then he will make the SC that everyone wants!

Also, as noted, i'm not on twitter and have no desire to sign up for it.

I used to directly engage with people over on /r/sc, but the constant insults (that moderators did nothing about) when offering criticism got stale. Very few were willing to have a polite vigorous debate on topics. Mostly it was just "you don't understand game development you hater Derek Smart alt account" and then went downhill from there.

My findings as well. Most of the time I apply the "you cant talk to these people" and move on but of course if these people come to "my place" I gotta handle it and if they want to talk and dont like what I have to say....tough. Like at most parties or come-togethers people usually just small-talk about stuff even tho they have different views. theres a lot of teasing, banter and of course things never get resolved. Its just passing the time and trying to have fun. But of course there is always that one guy who takes things too seriously and goes too far at which point the rest starts to ignore him or tells him outright whats what. I ve never seen such a situation end peacefully. Usually it involves a lot of hurt feelings, tears, grudges and even physical violence. Thats what this threanaught really is. We dont control it or how it goes but we all shape it by our input. The perople who desperately try to distance themselves from the rabble are just as much part of this as I am by my own decision.

One SC year is worth 5 normal years 😂

That I can agree with :)

I like gossip.

Like billions of other people which explains all the TV soaps, non-news news stations, reddit, youtube etc. If you truly dont understand the fascination that its fair to say you lack something important and its not all the others who are weird ^^

So did I initially... although most here tend to just ignore that fact when it suits them...or do I just get a pass because I refunded the Wing Commander account?

Its because we like you, gosh how dense are you dude? Also....while I might not get your view or silently judge you as the moron who funds a scam there really is no reason to give you any flak about a difference of opinion. You stay polite, I stay polite. You start to use sarcasm, I match the funny. You act offended and serious....I do the same. (misunderstandings happen but I manage to work them out rather quickly with people who care, not so much with the actual shills) I dare to say the "we like you" part isnt because of your view on Star Citizen but because of your posts (and pictures....maybe more because of the pictures, I havent decided yet....)

it's also endless :D

😡😡💢 triggered :D Dont mind me ^^

This thread isn't marriage (although it does feel at times like watching my kids),

Same here but at the same time I realize I m not innocent in getting riled up or getting aggrevated over something thats ultimately not worth it. I dare to say you are also not innocent in this regard even if its not SC related. I always thought that the Dalei Lama is a sham, somethings simply not right with that a good way but he is the exception. We all look up to him and try to copy his act but most of the time we are left with trying. And at times I wonder how real his demontrated behavior and thinking really is. I d also dare to say that he wouldnt survive for long outside his bubble where he is deified and admired. For everybody who continues to admire him there are a hundred people who see him as easy prey and would take the chance if given. Protection therefore is left to others. Chris Roberts the Dalei lama of video games??? A mindblowing thought.....

I think, it's really a cult, too. A cult around aging men who feel that this is their last chance to cream off some sweet money. And since it has been quite successful, it has had positive feedback on their doctrines and mantras. I kinda disagree on how to react to cultists like this. Let them do their stuff and some sorry guy might slip into their fangs. You don't let stupidity just fester, you confront it where you can. You expose it where you can and you mock it where you can.

In truth "opposing a cult because its a cult" would make it a crusade but its fair to say that opposing a cult is the right thing to do when the cult steps into your circle of interest/responsebility. I have a pretty extreme opinion about Cults in general but I dont go out and "fight cults" all over the world. If a fanatic would come to my door and try to draw me or my family into its net tho I would take a stand and I wouldnt be polite about it either. You are right that tolerating or ignoring cults only allows those cults to grow and spread. But I do believe into this "freedom of choice" which makes that people who WANT to be in a cult have to be allowed to be in one. The problem I have is that these people usually dont own it but try to paint ME as the hater or antagonist simply because I think they are cultists and becoming offended when I say so.

Star Citizen has its group of people who simply enjoy it for what it is....lacking as that might be IMO. Who am I to deny them their fun? But at the same time you have real cultists who hide behind the fascade of "I m just having fun" to spread their propaganda and misinformation. If you are in the "fun camp" and you tolerate or allow fanatics to speak in your name (by mimicking of being in your "camp" you silently empower them and become partly responsible in others mixing you up. At some point it becomes hard to distinguish between people who have fun and sycophants pushing an agenda simply because they use the "I m just having fun..." mantra so extensively.

No doubt "the cult of Star Citizen" is a minority or at least I d like to think that but its a vocal minority and allowing it to speak for all people who own or play Star Citizen is akin to empowering them. Admission through silence. Allow it to happen long enough and at some point you will be dragged along in a current of responses that are unable to distinguish between the two.

CIG itself has allowed its vocal minority cult to speak for them for a long time without distancing themselves from them. That lack of action alone makes them responsible. They dont even need to control whats happening and they probably never did. They just "allowed it to happen" and today they cannot seperate themselves anymore because the public awareness is hardened.

Star Citizen and toxicity go hand in hand because of this. It doesnt matter if you think "oh but its only because of the people who take it too seriously". Placing the blame anywhere else then at your feet doesnt make the problem or issue go away. If you want to prevent something unwelcome to happen you are pretty much forced to take action...pre-emptive or reactionary. I learned that in oplitics and its why I go voting in the first place.

I dont want to see the things happening in Star Citizens development happening in other games or at least I want it to stay the exception. How do you do that exactly? By staying silent and tolerating those who take it "too serious"? There isnt much I can do in all the things I think go wrong in the world but I can post my opinion on the internet. Call me a coward if you like ^^ I think speaking out against something I deem wrong is the right thing to do and important too. By doing so you learn to get along with others or formulate your thoughts in a different way than just the fist.

I ve followed theological debates for the longest time. One or both sides are arguably in a cult. The debates themselves dont change a whole lot but they provide a quality that is commendable and helps to clarify a lot of points for myself or provides answers to questions I might have. This threadnaught is basically an open debate as well. What we discuss here wont change the project and mostly wont change each others opinions either. As such its essentially "worthless" and same as theological debates we go through the same loops constantly. Its not like theres any news coming to light that could provide definitive answers or facts. Its all guesswork, theorycrafting, logical conclusion and personal interpretation.

I can't make sense of SaltE. There was this vid where his wife mocked SC being like the girlfriend you have never sex with. And he went along. Is he just putting up an act for earning his twitch money?

The thing I recognized about successfull YT or twitch streamers is that they are professionals. Not because they are the best at what they do but because they take what they do seriously. And that includes preperation, community engagement, post-stream analysis etc. The whole apparatus behind a successfull streamer is pretty monstrous but you only ever see that one guy acting it up on camera. The ability to mimick being "just like you" is actually a talent but its just a front. Actors who sell themselves so they are who you want them to be. And even tho many of them can be pretty harsh and tell you to "eff off, I do my thing, like it or leave it: I m not going to change for you" the truth is that they do exactly that and only speak out if they can afford to off some individuals because they cannot please everybody and as long as the supporters are able to carry/support them they ll continue doing whats best for them,,,which involves acting and doing things you "have to do" because its your job...not just a hobby.

When I watched SaltE I always had the impression he honestly hopes for the best and just naively ignores the bad or doesnt see it. The attempts at critisizing CiG are all pretty tame and probably carefully evaluated to not cross any thresholds that would turn him into the next Failure. He needs and does to hit the sweet spot where fans of the game tolerate his criticism and continue to stay behind him. In the process he manages to tap into the pool of "haters" so its a risk-versus-reward business for him. He isnt a youngster, he does this to pay his bills (in part) so I deny him innocence which doesnt mean he doesnt make innocent mistakes but whatever he shows you has to be evaluated carefully because in the end he only shows you what he wants you to see.

But again, this "skill" to act all innocent and convincing in his frustration with CiG...thats what makes him sucessfull at what he does.

Most of the more recent or younger backers want ToW rather than go through the effort of playing the PU...instant spawns, vehicles and ships provided per scenario, completely PvP...I can see the attraction. The old farts the likes of me see little point in it, no matter how they try to disguise the fact that it's just another Battlefield clone...we joined for the ED experience that we thought we'd find in SC, not for some casual CoD pew action.

Thats just spelling out the ugly truth. If CIG would care to release the game and THEN continue to shape and change it to the audiences likes and dislikes that would be the "proper" way to do it. But what you see is ToW which puts a spanner into the overall development preventing Star Citizen from progressing. Next year it might be a different thing and without CiG taking a firm stand disregarding new things coming into the market and simply "do their thing" this wont ever change. Be it a new playmode, a new mechanic or technological achievement "nice to have".....CIG just folliows the latest sensations and tries to do everything at once.

Now some people claim that "CIG is doing their thing" but thats not really whats happening now is it? ToW is a direct answer to the latest "hype". It was never on the roadmap and its reveal was a surprise for everybody. I believe that CiG will continue to do this...for the wrong reasons because the available foundation doesnt show the potential to support all these ideas. I simply cannot see Star Citizen ever becoming a success in thats the way it is managed. Only incredible and also dumb luck would save it and maybe CIG is waiting for that to happen.


Jorunn is Little Ant!


Do me! Do me! Who would I be?

@CIG - am willing to shill. Must pay better than Derek Smart!

You were already offered money to shut your piece and you refused. You really think CiG can consider you seriously?

Just a friendly reminder to all of you....could you formulate your posts in a child-friendly manner? My english aint good enough and I dont feel like cross-checking every third word just because you want toi show off how much you know, kthanks ^^

Just a friendly reminder to all of you....could you formulate your posts in a child-friendly manner? My english aint good enough and I dont feel like cross-checking every third word just because you want toi show off how much you know, kthanks ^^[/spoiler]

No, this is still educational thread and I like to improve my englischen skills, thank you very much.
I also suppose SaltE is doing it professionally. Many YT do. they find a niche and fester grow. It's just I found that particular situation contradicting the usual act.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - some German guy.
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