Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Yes sir! There is more expensive 'military' version where all four wheels work properly. It has six wheels.
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‘Remember the Nomad!'
Turns out before it had a love cuddle with the Asp, it dallied with a Chieftan...
original concept art
Turns out before it had a love cuddle with the Asp, it dallied with a Chieftan...
original concept art
Launched SC today, got into it laying on the bed, forgot which key it is to stand up, so I hit F twice, then other keys. Then I looked up and it said to hit 'y' to stand, so I did, and yay, ctd. Some of us haven't been able to stay in game to really test anything out. So, seeing this post, which I think I've seen a while ago (in a previous # in this thread series), reminded me to ask...what?
As far as I knew, you could at least fly around the single star system they have, and I had guessed that meant anywhere within that system, as you can in ED. Are you saying thats wrong? You can only fly along certain 'quantum' lines? Does that mean if I fly away from Port Olisar, I'll hit a wall? And does that happen for all locations you can 'quantum' jump to?
Are planets like this too? Travel only to cities/outposts, but not everywhere?
If I could stay in SC long enough to test this, I would, but till I upgrade my pc, I dont think I'll be able to.
Not sure if that beats the "Derek Smart was right" FDL in the stream that (I think) Braben was on.
/Off topic/
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Hey guys as I know all of you are SF fans and some of you still love to play sometimes with old 8-bit computers.....because of that maybe you might be interested in my second ZX Spectrum game that I just published
....DOWNLOAD LINK
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Not exactly. If I have understood correctly, Mole et al feel free to correct me, you can indeed free form fly anywhere you want if you fly in normal (slow) speeds. Planets do not follow orbits so all celestial bodies are static (they rotate though). The issue is with quantum, i.e. the equivalent to supercruise. In Quantum you can not free form fly, you can only jump (i.e. you do not really pilot or steer) between quantum points indeed. This suggests issues with the 64b precision implementation maybe exacerbated by objects moving at high speeds or if allowed to reach places that they shouldnt.
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You are partialy correct. QT is a supercruise on autopilot that get you from where you are (anywhere on the system) to a unique predetermined point near a planet.
So you can't free fly like in supercruise. But as you can stop your QT anytime you want along your trip and choose another QT you can go wherever you want by triangulation.
For instance the Aaron halo asteroid belt has no marker atm. Here the guy stop is QT around 2:20 to get to it.
I don't know if there is an issue with 64bit precision preventing free supercruise fly. But for me it's not a good idea to have it in SC. Having the same point to QT for everyone greatly help inducing encounters and bounty hunting. Predetermined QT marker help also the interdiction gameplay.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
This is still not quite correct, since quantum destinations are limited the vast majority of the space in the system is still innaccessible and you can not go wherever, triangulating or otherwise. Also direct steering is a much more natural and gratifying experience for a player seeking freedom of discovery and exploration, but that is maybe just my opinion. Either way quantum travelling and movement / exploration freedom are fundamentally restricted for the player in SC.
As we can see in ED, free form flight in 64b precision does not seem to be an issue for interdiction gameplay, on the contrary. The thing is interdiction gameplay in ED means players can interact with one another or with NPCs, in real time twitch based gameplay, over huge distances measured in tens or hundreds of light seconds. And for that I´d imagine you need a robust 64b precision engine. On the other hand, correct me if I am wrong, SC interdiction gameplay ranges is measured in just about 10-20 Km.
Given how CIG considers freedom of exploration, giving the player "ultimate" control etc etc a flagship for SC I do not think quantum flight, or interdiction gameplay, would have been nerfed this way unless there were some really serious technical limitations.
This does not mean CIG may not resolve the issues one day, but so far it seems not too promising.
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For many players having choke points like that would a negative, not a positive. Forcing all returning explorers into a single point where the gankers can harvest them like trout would be a big negative!
I do not think it stems from a technical limitation. It used to be the case that we could QT absolutely anywhere, in early versions. And you can indeed free fly anywhere you want at slow speed, you will not hit a "wall". You got it wrong with the 64b coordinate implementation: SC implementation is that every entity (planet, ship, even space turrets as someone found) have their own map with their own 64b coordinates - when you go across a door or a ramp that's where you get into one or another coordinate system. The inherent weakness of it, is it's horribly glitchy if any of the moving object with their own coordinate system has network lag compared to the others, its position will be desynchronized - when you cross the threshold between these relatively moving maps, the physics engine take out of date data and throw you around at relativistic speeds.
But that weakness does not include freedom of movement, on the opposite, they can indeed create maps of absolutely any size and you can navigate them the way you want.
Instead I think they wanted to create choke points as SC "interdiction" happens from a ship that is out of QT, hence not moving, and has a very limited range. Still they forgot that as LittleAnt mentioned you can cut off QT any time and change your target mid flight, you'll be totally out of the usual QT lanes.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I am fully aware. The travel was still limited to a forced straight line without free form steering though. It is precisely one more reason why I think the change stems from technical limitations, exacerbated specially at high speeds. It just did not perform well and CIG probably realized aswell interdiction over ranges of tens or hundreds of Ls was not going to work reasonably well either.
I disagree the choke point mechanic is a will full design though. I think it is just a very convenient poor brother of what it could have been, but one that probably fits the engine limitations, especially given its poor range.
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
During quantum travel, unlike ED's supercruise, you have absolutely no idea where anything is relative to you except your fixed destination point on the HUD. You're in effect flying on blind autopilot. Players cannot see other players or maneuver to interdict or interact with anything at all during a QT jump until you exit, either manually or automatically on reaching the fixed jump point. It's a cheap way of ensuring choke points as mentioned, however, if you manually exit QT and reset your jump point it breaks the fixed entry point...a method I use often to evade possible end of jump interdictions by intrepid pirate types.
It's fairly easy to work out where a player has quantum jumped to by simply by noting the direction of the jump. If you have a faster ship or better QT drive, it's unerringly possible to be waiting there at the destination for the targeted player to arrive and ambush them or arrive just slightly after them...a tactic I also use. I've never like the fixed point system since Ci¬G decided to go down that route...the older random QT points with non fixed distances made it nigh impossible for other players to track your intended destination. When Ci¬G faffed about with the completely useless interdictor ship, the Mantis...they had to make it at least possible for it to appear like it worked or was viable for the purpose. In reality, it doesn't work at all and never will. The only use for it is to prevent players jumping out of an engagement but only of limited use if the Mantis has supporting ships to engage the target whilst it flounders around with no power for shields or weapons..
Basically, Ci¬G are using those choke points of a fixed destination QT system to force player interactions, nothing more.
It's fairly easy to work out where a player has quantum jumped to by simply by noting the direction of the jump. If you have a faster ship or better QT drive, it's unerringly possible to be waiting there at the destination for the targeted player to arrive and ambush them or arrive just slightly after them...a tactic I also use. I've never like the fixed point system since Ci¬G decided to go down that route...the older random QT points with non fixed distances made it nigh impossible for other players to track your intended destination. When Ci¬G faffed about with the completely useless interdictor ship, the Mantis...they had to make it at least possible for it to appear like it worked or was viable for the purpose. In reality, it doesn't work at all and never will. The only use for it is to prevent players jumping out of an engagement but only of limited use if the Mantis has supporting ships to engage the target whilst it flounders around with no power for shields or weapons..
Basically, Ci¬G are using those choke points of a fixed destination QT system to force player interactions, nothing more.
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Real time information black out at high speeds is probably another reason that lends credence to the poor 64b precision implementation and technical limitations scenario.
Again, CIG may very well solve all these issues in time, but so far it is what it is.
I don't think they want to solve it at all. They made the decision of the fixed destination point to make player interactions work, nothing more. Like most of the design choices for Star Citizen, Ci¬G rely on barely thought out shortcuts to make their arcade space shooter look like it works
Yes, i'm sure that its for this reason and not any technical reason. They want to encourage those player encounters. For some people this is a plus, for some its a minus.
FD like to give players options for whether they want to encounter other players, which appeals to a certain type of player. CIG seem to want to force player interactions, which appeals to another type of player.
Therefore, please, CIG, hurry up and release the damn game! Can't wait for all the gankers and griefers to leave ED for SC!
Really i disagree here - when it was you could indeed QT anywhere, you could still see your selected destination, and movement was smooth. The high speed does not create any issue apart for their terrible network code, but note that lag will affect supercruise interdictions in ED too (your target will "jump around" before you can catch them) - and their notoriously crappy network code affects everything from other players movement on legs to physics engine losing grip with reality.
And the way they have done it would not preclude free movement in QT at all, as i said, it's meant for supporting multi-scale maps embedded into each other.
Like Mole just said, they sold ships that were ill fitted to their task and tried to conform the gameplay to these ships.