Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Really i disagree here - when it was you could indeed QT anywhere, you could still see your selected destination, and movement was smooth. The high speed does not create any issue apart for their terrible network code, but note that lag will affect supercruise interdictions in ED too (your target will "jump around" before you can catch them) - and their notoriously crappy network code affects everything from other players movement on legs to physics engine losing grip with reality.
And the way they have done it would not preclude free movement in QT at all, as i said, it's meant for supporting multi-scale maps embedded into each other.
Like Mole just said, they sold ships that were ill fitted to their task and tried to conform the gameplay to these ships.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Even in its first iteration QT was also forced to a straight line. I do not think this is just network code related. At best a compounded issue of both systems (network and 64b) being quite deficient. Given how CIG considers freedom of exploration, giving the player "ultimate" control etc etc a staple of SC I do not think quantum flight, or interdiction gameplay, would have been nerfed this way unless there were some really serious technical limitations for free form steer and long range high speed precision gameplay.

Also choke point theory is not enough to explain this. You do not need straight lines to create choke points. ED does that really well just by virtue of system beacons and stations existing as natural destinations along gravity slowdown effects. But for that to work you need a robust 64b imlpementation that allows long range twitch gameplay.
 
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Yes, i'm sure that its for this reason and not any technical reason. They want to encourage those player encounters. For some people this is a plus, for some its a minus.

FD like to give players options for whether they want to encounter other players, which appeals to a certain type of player. CIG seem to want to force player interactions, which appeals to another type of player.

Therefore, please, CIG, hurry up and release the damn game! Can't wait for all the gankers and griefers to leave ED for SC!
You mean the same gankers and griefers that already play SC as well as ED? They're just as easy to avoid in either game to be fair...I used to love the old supercruise 'dance of death' as you resolved all your targets when you dropped into a system, marked the interesting ones and varied your big, curving run-ins to the stations making the potential gankers or griefers chase you around a bit...just before they get in interdiction range...drop out of SC and high wake somewhere else. Do that 3 times in a row to the same potential griefer and they usually gave you a free pass the next time you popped up on the radar.

In SC it's even easier, resolve all your targets before you jump to somewhere you're not really going, all whilst still in the no fire zone so they can't pick you off before you jump...manually drop out of QT, re-align to where you actually intended going in the first place and continue on completely unbothered by the space heathen ;)
 
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Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not think this is just network code related. A compounded issue of both systems (network and 64b) being quite deficient, at best. The fact there is information blackout on other objects positioning while in quantum also does not bode well. Given how CIG considers freedom of exploration, giving the player "ultimate" control etc etc a flagship for SC I do not think quantum flight, or interdiction gameplay, would have been nerfed this way unless there were some really serious technical limitations for long range high speed precision gameplay.

Also choke point theory is not enough to explain this. You do not need straight lines to create choke points. ED does that really well just by virtue of system beacons and stations existing as natural destinations along gravity slowdown effects. But for that to work you need a robust 64b imlpementation that allows long range twitch gameplay.
Ci¬G can get away with the lowest common denominator of implementation when it comes to quantum travel since none of the planets or moons have orbital rotations. They would only ever need to implement a correct solution if they invested in orbital mechanics...and we know that's not happening, not this late in the project.

Perhaps FDev could loan Ci¬G a few of their Elite dev team who have doctorates in physics to get them started on the right track...until that unlikely event, SC is stuck as a basic arcade space shooter :D
 
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You mean the same gankers and griefers that already play SC as well as ED? They're just as easy to avoid in either game to be fair...I used to love the old supercruise 'dance of death' as you resolved all your targets when you dropped into a system, marked the interesting ones and varied your big, curving run-ins to the stations making the potential gankers or griefers chase you around a bit...just before they get in interdiction range...drop out of SC and high wake somewhere else. Do that 3 times in a row to the same potential griefer and they usually gave you a free pass the next time you popped up on the radar.

In SC it's even easier, resolve all your targets before you jump to somewhere you're not really going, all whilst still in the no fire zone so they can't pick you off before you jump...manually drop out of QT, re-align to where you actually intended going in the first place and continue on completely unbothered by the space heathen ;)

I suspect there are a number of gankers/griefers who continue to play ED while wanting for SC to release as they don't want to give CIG any money until they know what they are buying.
 
I suspect there are a number of gankers/griefers who continue to play ED while wanting for SC to release as they don't want to give CIG any money until they know what they are buying.
View attachment 210670
iu

Say, doesn't one of them has an animated PEGI-7 avatar?

I think I know now why Mole is so fond of mining: It's a trap an ambush!
 
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IMHO, it's obvious the straight line QT travel is due to a limitation. My guess would be SSOCS, since a pre-determined destination helps the system know which assets need to start loading.

The previous behavior of the game is irrelevant. They likely ran into a new limitation.

Free form travel is obviously advantageous and more immersive. Just watch 15 minutes of any Malic_VR ED stream to get a sense of the 3D motion. Imagine straight line fixed motion in VR. LOL. I guess backers will go play chess in the ship's backroom.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
IMHO, it's obvious the straight line QT travel is due to a limitation. My guess would be SSOCS, since a pre-determined destination helps the system know which assets need to start loading.

The previous behavior of the game is irrelevant. They likely ran into a new limitation.

Free form travel is obviously advantageous and more immersive. Just watch 15 minutes of any Malic_VR ED stream to get a sense of the 3D motion. Imagine straight line fixed motion in VR. LOL. I guess backers will go play chess in the ship's backroom.

The straight line QT restriction was there at the start from day 1 even before SSOCS. Whatever the technical limitation for free form flight it already existed and preceeded it. My simple, Occam´s Razor, guess is just a crappy 64b precision implementation.

Regarding loading, some SC streamer, I think it was WTFSaurus, did a normal flight test some time ago and showed how after several hours the station at destiny was indeed there, no loading in theory. Now, with SSOCS, it would be interesting to repeat the experiment indeed, to see if QT triggers a loading.
 
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The straight line QT restriction was there at the start from day 1 even before SSOCS. Whatever the technical limitation for free form flight it already existed and preceeded it. My simple, Occam´s Razor, guess is just a crappy 64b precision implementation.

Regarding loading, some SC streamer, I think it was WTFSaurus, did a normal flight test some time ago and showed how after several hours the station at destiny was indeed there, no loading in theory. Now, with SSOCS, it would be interesting to repeat the experiment indeed, to see if QT triggers a loading.
Personally I dislike when people state Occam´s Razor in any forum or discourse as it's perceptive, 'my' easiest solution may not be yours.

This statement has nothing to do with the validity of the post as I can't be bothered to read it :)
Pug
 
The straight line QT restriction was there at the start from day 1 even before SSOCS. Whatever the technical limitation for free form flight it already existed and preceeded it. My simple, Occam´s Razor, guess is just a crappy 64b precision implementation.

Regarding loading, some SC streamer, I think it was WTFSaurus, did a normal flight test some time ago and showed how after several hours the station at destiny was indeed there, no loading in theory. Now, with SSOCS, it would be interesting to repeat the experiment indeed, to see if QT triggers a loading.
Nope, the station and all assets are still there if you fly in real time, no matter where you fly from or to. QT may be used for something else entirely...but it's certainly not a loading screen...or at least not a temporary one to load assets. I see that fact as being one of the greatest failings of SC, rather than just do the sensible thing, Ci¬G force the engine to load assets that are totally unnecessary from a gameplay perspective...all just to satisfy the pointless requirements set by the idiot Roberts, who has no idea what he's doing in the first place.
 
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Nope, the station and all assets are still there if you fly in real time, no matter where you fly from or to. QT may be used for something else entirely...but it's certainly not a loading screen...or at least not a temporary one to load assets. I see that fact as being one of the greatest failings of SC, rather than just do the sensible thing, Ci¬G force the engine to load assets totally unnecessary from a gameplay perspective...all just to satisfy the pointless requirements set by the idiot Roberts, who has no idea what he's doing in the first place.
That's why he Employs his missus :)
Pug
 
That's why he Employs his missus :)
Pug
I very much doubt she has the ability to turn on a PC unaided...much the same as CR to be fair. Her main talents seem to be related to breathing air, spending money and insulting the higher spending end of the very customer base that provides her exorbitant wages every month...Entitled whiners I think she called us ;)
 
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That’s a fun theory. The current system would likely help with pre-load, compared to a freeform one, for sure.
It's not a streaming pre-load as SSOCS would imply, we could see that clearly during the event. Also while QTing out of the event area, the game would hitch while unloading assets (yes, even with NVMe SSD, and yes, 32GB of RAM), I guess they just load whatever is needed in a given sphere of influence. It's just a plain load / unload, no streaming. It would hitch just the same while reaching the area in free flight, you would just not notice as much as the QT animation makes it obvious.
As far as i noticed, their current SOI is a planet + its moons, or for L points just everything in and around said L point.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Personally I dislike when people state Occam´s Razor in any forum or discourse as it's perceptive, 'my' easiest solution may not be yours.

That is fine, let me be a bit more specific. Occam´s razor can be relevant in many contexts. The one I was trying to alude to is not too far from its sister razor, Hanlon´s. Do not assign intent (evil or otherwise) when plain stupidity or incompetence will suffice.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Or just a planned and intended gameplay since the beginning.

It´s indeed a possibility, but given how CIG considers freedom of exploration, giving the player "ultimate" control etc etc a staple of SC (see also how they went straight to announce full planets the moment ED released Horizons and when NMS was not far from release) I highly doubt quantum flight, or interdiction gameplay, would have been nerfed this way unless there were some really serious technical limitations for free form steer and long range high speed precision gameplay.

I am pretty sure they probably tried their best to deliver it, but failed (at least so far).
 
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