Star Citizen Thread v6

[ZeeWolf]

I might be a bit clueless when it comes to loans but the way I understand it you get a certain amount of cash and have to pay back that amount PLUS a certain interest by a certain date. That means by getting a loan CiG is now on a schedule and the bank certainly wont take "soon" or "next week" for an answer like all the poor suckers have these past years So now that theres someone with power in the game who can shut down the whole game we are officially in the endgame folks, sit tight

Since everyone has already paid for the game I'm guessing it's not the release they are expecting to make money on. CIG is a crowd funding company, until something can regulate them. The bank is likely lending them cash to be repaid after the usual seasonal round of taking money from fans.

Actually releasing a final product wouldn't seem like a good way to make money.

 

[Brett C]

There's also a fair bit of discussion on the reddit page: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6j828y/cig_recently_took_out_a_loan_from_coutts_co_in/

Not sure if I'm allowed to link to reddit stuff on this forum? If so - mods I'm sorry won't do it again.

You're fine linking reddit sites. Don't think we've ever censored that site from our forums.

 

[Thargon]

You're fine linking reddit sites. Don't think we've ever censored that site from our forums.

Oh ok, thanks Mr C for replying

I was concerned because there's a rule about linking to third party sites?

 

[Brett C]

Oh ok, thanks Mr C for replying

I was concerned because there's a rule about linking to third party sites?

Spam/link referral/malware/virus/piracy related stuff is what that rule mainly consists of. Generally, if the link relates to a thread's core discussion, it's OK.

 

[Backer42]

I might be a bit clueless when it comes to loans but the way I understand it you get a certain amount of cash and have to pay back that amount PLUS a certain interest by a certain date. That means by getting a loan CiG is now on a schedule and the bank certainly wont take "soon" or "next week" for an answer like all the poor suckers have these past years So now that theres someone with power in the game who can shut down the whole game we are officially in the endgame folks, sit tight

What's more important than dates is that it is official confirmation that the crowd funding campaign failed.

What I get from this is that they switched to bank funding after burning all crowd funds.

From the perspective of the initial project goal, it means officially Game Over.

(Nobody pledged for an investor/bank-funded game, nobody has to.)

 

[ZeeWolf]

The fans are out on full damage control

I wonder if any of the larger press organisations will pick up on it on Monday? It's probably not that much of a story, but I rather like seeing the really hard-core backers wound up a bit and I fancy opening a bag of pop-corn.

 

[Cotic]

My guess is that they had hoped to get Squadron 42 released this year to start recouping funds but because of Roberts making 3.0 sound like it was sooner rather than later they now need to get that released to backers instead so that he can save face. This means pulling people off Squadron 42 and reassigning them thus drawing out the completion time for Sq42 therefore more wages to be paid etc.

 

[AJW]

Personally, I think people are probably making too much of this. We have no idea how much CIG have borrowed, or for what purpose. And as I've already argued, CIG probably hasn't really got much in the way of tangible assets to use as collateral, suggesting that in comparison to the funds they've raised, any loan is likely to be quite small. All it really indicates is that they don't have a lot of spare cash floating around, which isn't that surprising. Even sensibly-run and profitable companies with established product lines borrow money from banks, and it isn't in of itself evidence that they are about to go under. If we knew more about how much has been borrowed, and for what purpose, we might be able to draw more firm conclusions, but for now I think it is worth watching more for the comedy value than anything else - it is quite entertaining watching people working themselves into a lather because they think they have somehow 'lost ownership' of something they never owned in the first place...

 

[Thargon]

Hey, this might even be a GOOD thing.

Imagine this scenario:

1. CIG defaults on the loan.
2. SC and all it's assets (physical and non-physical) now belong to Coutts & Co.
3. Coutts and Co. seek another publisher to buy the assets from them (they wouldn't want to keep a game IP and assets in their portfolio - would make no sense).
4. Coutts sell SC and all its IP to a large game publisher.
5. Large Game publisher now takes hold of the project with proper project managers (sorry Chris we gotta let you go!)
6. Large Game publisher decides to honor the backers original stretch goals, manages project well and releases a decent Star Citizen that everyone backed for originally.
7. Profit
8. Backers happy.

 

[Thargon]

Personally, I think people are probably making too much of this. We have no idea how much CIG have borrowed, or for what purpose. And as I've already argued, CIG probably hasn't really got much in the way of tangible assets to use as collateral, suggesting that in comparison to the funds they've raised, any loan is likely to be quite small. All it really indicates is that they don't have a lot of spare cash floating around, which isn't that surprising. Even sensibly-run and profitable companies with established product lines borrow money from banks, and it isn't in of itself evidence that they are about to go under. If we knew more about how much has been borrowed, and for what purpose, we might be able to draw more firm conclusions, but for now I think it is worth watching more for the comedy value than anything else - it is quite entertaining watching people working themselves into a lather because they think they have somehow 'lost ownership' of something they never owned in the first place...

And it's everything, not just phyiscal assets that are up for collateral. Look at the source PDF, all Game assets and distribution rights etc (see page 3) are up for grabs if they default.

There's some interesting scoops on http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/sc-scoop/#post-5346

Some lols from here

Coutts & Co. This is the Queen's bank Derek. Yeah, there's no way in hell they'd give CIG a loan if they were predicted to go into financial distress any time soon. If anything this shows that CIG is in a good financial situation.

 

[AJW]

Hey, this might even be a GOOD thing.

Imagine this scenario:

1. CIG defaults on the loan.
2. SC and all it's assets (physical and non-physical) now belong to Coutts & Co.
3. Coutts and Co. seek another publisher to buy the assets from them (they wouldn't want to keep a game IP and assets in their portfolio - would make no sense).
4. Coutts sell SC and all its IP to a large game publisher.
5. Large Game publisher now takes hold of the project with proper project managers (sorry Chris we gotta let you go!)
6. Large Game publisher decides to honor the backers original stretch goals, manages project well and releases a decent Star Citizen that everyone backed for originally.
7. Profit
8. Backers happy.

Why exactly would any 'Large Game publisher' want to buy an unfinished game just so they could give it away free to almost all of the potential customer base? They would be under no obligation whatsoever to 'honor' agreements they weren't party to, and would quite possibly be in breach of their fiduciary duty to their shareholders were they to do so.

 

[tooterfish]

1. CIG defaults on the loan.
2. SC and all it's assets (physical and non-physical) now belong to Coutts & Co.

You got it the wrong way around. The assets belong to Coutts & Co from now until CIG pay off the loan.

They license the IP back to CIG in the contract, so they can continue development. Those headlines aren't 100% hyperbole, in legal terms Star Citizen belongs to the bank. The backers are pretty much screwed if this goes under.

e:fixed because I can't see the future. They are screwed though.

 

[Thargon]

Why exactly would any 'Large Game publisher' want to buy an unfinished game just so they could give it away free to almost all of the potential customer base? They would be under no obligation whatsoever to 'honor' agreements they weren't party to, and would quite possibly be in breach of their fiduciary duty to their shareholders were they to do so.

Who said any large game publisher would give away anything free? They could make more profits by selling a completed game to many more customers.

Anyone know of the quickest way to request a refund? I think time is critical now, I think I'm gonna get out with my £70.

 

[tooterfish]

There's an entire reddit for that. Just google "star citizen refunds".

 

[Thargon]

There's an entire reddit for that. Just google "star citizen refunds".

Thanks Oh Wow - I just looked at my billing page. It seems I am 190 USD with them - I didn't realise. It seems I'm about 150 quid with them :S

 

[Cotic]

You got it the wrong way around. The assets belong to Coutts & Co from now until CIG pay off the loan.

They license the IP back to CIG in the contract, so they can continue development. Those headlines aren't 100% hyperbole, in legal terms Star Citizen belongs to the bank. The backers are pretty much screwed if this goes under.

e:fixed because I can't see the future. They are screwed though.

Exactly. I have to laugh at the defenders with their 13 year old style youtube comments going "lul no" as if they have any inkling of what they are talking about. This instantly upvoted PSA is a prime example https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6jepuv/chill_out_on_financial_speculation/

 

[Thargon]

You got it the wrong way around. The assets belong to Coutts & Co from now until CIG pay off the loan.

They license the IP back to CIG in the contract, so they can continue development. Those headlines aren't 100% hyperbole, in legal terms Star Citizen belongs to the bank. The backers are pretty much screwed if this goes under.

e:fixed because I can't see the future. They are screwed though.

Ah thanks! My legalese isn't that great

 

[Thargon]

My refund request email has been sent. Hopefully will be honored.

 

[tooterfish]

Fingers crossed for ya.

You might have more luck sending one to Coutts & Co though!

 

[Asp Explorer]

I got an email from a profoundly positive backer that is too NSFW to share here. Suffice it to say, she's now out too.

Five thousand USD.

My lulzbucket exploded.