Star Citizen Thread v6

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Zetta

Zetta
hairychris said:
It'll be interesting to see how much the rebate is actually supposed to be.

To be honest, though, I'm not too happy about my tax quids going towards this!
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I think the rebate was listed in their recent filings. Something like £4 million iirc
 
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Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Snarfbuckle said:
Yes, I corrected that in another post but have not updated my original post, I might have to fix that.
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To be honest, I find your disinterest in this difference... odd for someone with '20 years experience.'

"Hey, its only .25%, thats decent enough."
"Oh, its ten times more. Ah well, I guess that's also decent enough."

:S

Ofcourse, whatever happens is perfectly normal and fine and standard for you. I think the point for most here is that anyone outside SC thinks normality means 'making a plan and executing it'.

"We've got 20 million, that should do." Fans:"Cool, we've done it!"
"Never mind, we could do with 40 million more to reach all goals." Fans:"Sure, whatever you want!"
"Okay, we've got our 60 million, we've got everything we need for the expanded scope." Fans:"Cool!"
"Oh, we now have 150 million but it isn't enough anymore. Dont worry though, we'll soon sell a lot of Sq42!" Fans:"Cool, sounds reasonable to us!"
*rumours about a loan* Fans: "That makes perfect sense, we've always wanted them to take loans from big banks!"
*CIG says its not really a loan, although it kinda is* Fans:"See, it wasn't a loan, we never wanted a loan!"

Its just bizarre.
 
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Zetta

Zetta
sleutelbos said:
To be honest, I find your disinterest in this difference... odd for someone with '20 years experience.'

"Hey, its only .25%, thats decent enough."
"Oh, its ten times more. Ah well, I guess that's also decent enough."

:S

Ofcourse, whatever happens is perfectly normal and fine and standard for you. I think the point for most here is that anyone outside SC thinks normality means 'making a plan and executing it'.

"We've got 20 million, that should do." Fans:"Cool, we've done it!"
"Never mind, we could do with 40 million more to reach all goals." Fans:"Sure, whatever you want!"
"Okay, we've got our 60 million, we've got everything we need for the expanded scope." Fans:"Cool!"
"Oh, we now have 150 million but it isn't enough anymore. Dont worry though, we'll soon sell a lot of Sq42!" Fans:"Cool, sounds reasonable to us!"
*rumours about a loan* Fans: "That makes perfect sense, we've always wanted them to take loans from big banks!"
*CIG says its not really a loan, although it kinda is* Fans:"See, it wasn't a loan, we never wanted a loan!"

Its just bizarre.
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+1

The sad story of yes men.
 

AJW

AJW
As I suspected, a great deal of fuss over what seems to be a minor issue. CIG are in the same position they were before this bit of nonsense: way behind in development, and entirely dependant for the funds necessary to complete the project on the seemingly bottomless pockets of 'backers', and on a continuing hype train which grasps at the merest trivial detail and theory-crafts totally out of all proportion. This time though, the speculation seems to have backfired...
 

Marak

Marak
We have noticed the speculations created by a posting on the website of UK’s Company House with respect to Coutt’s security for our UK Tax Rebate advance, and we would like to provide you with the following insight to help prevent some of the misinformation we have seen.


Our UK companies are entitled to a Government Game tax credit rebate which we earn every month on the Squadron 42 development. These rebates are payable by the UK Government in the fall of the next following year when we file our tax returns. Foundry 42 and its parent company Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd. have elected to partner with Coutts, a highly regarded, very selective, and specialized UK banking institution, to obtain a regular advance against this rebate, which will allow us to avoid converting unnecessarily other currencies into GBP. We obviously incur a significant part of our expenditures in GBP while our collections are mostly in USD and EUR. Given today's low interest rates versus the ongoing and uncertain currency fluctuations, this is simply a smart money management move, which we implemented upon recommendation of our financial advisors.



The collateral granted in connection with this discounting loan is absolutely standard and pertains to our UK operation only, which develops Squadron 42. As a careful review of the security will show and contrary to some irresponsible and misleading reports, the collateral specifically excludes “Star Citizen.” The UK Government rebate entitlement, which is audited and certified by our outside auditors on a quarterly basis, is the prime collateral. Per standard procedure in banking, our UK companies of course stand behind the loan and guarantee repayment which, however, given the reliability of the discounted asset (a UK Government payment) is a formality and nothing else. This security does not affect our UK companies’ ownership and control of their assets. Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.



This should clarify the matter. Thank you.
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I'm sorry but that whole statement by Ortwin looks to me like complete and utter .

The GBP is currently weak against the USD and EURO, so one dollar or one Euro buys more GBP than it would if the pound was strong. There is absolutely no reason for a loan if currency rates are the only reason. There is no issue around currency fluctuations as the GBP is going to remain weak for the next couple of years while the Brexit negotions go on - no one bets on an uncertain currency.

Also,as this PDF states they have put up all their assets as collateral which is a risky move.

If CIG had a healthy cash balance they could quite easily wait for the government tax rebate in the autumn, and raise money against just this rebate WITHOUT putting all of their intelectual property at risk.

The linked PDF goes against what Ortwin is stating, this is not just linked to F42. I'm not a lawyer however but I've spent a lot of my proffesional life dealing with them.

If anyone can show me where I'm wrong here I'm happy to hear it.
 
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Jezzah

Jezzah
That Ortwin guy :) is he basically saying that they are living "hand to mouth" and need this to stretch until this magic rebate comes through?
 

knowles2

K
Well this week should be fun, what are the odds on Alpha 3 being delayed?

I love the way they confident that the government will pay the rebate. They probably will but sometimes well bureaucrats get in the way! took 12 months to get one of my rebates out of those tight fisted, an completely lovely people:D that work at inland revenue, would hate to have the banks breathing down my necks and deal with the in land revenue, but that just me.
 
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ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
So is that a tax rebate for "R&D" or is it part of the tax relief for UK games companies?

For the UK tax relief I believe you have to pass a cultural test first. I don't think just having a UK base qualifies, the product has to be "British" in culture as I understand it.
 

Knightshark

Knightshark
Thargon said:
Hey, this might even be a GOOD thing.

Imagine this scenario:

1. CIG defaults on the loan.
2. SC and all it's assets (physical and non-physical) now belong to Coutts & Co.
3. Coutts and Co. seek another publisher to buy the assets from them (they wouldn't want to keep a game IP and assets in their portfolio - would make no sense).
4. Coutts sell SC and all its IP to a large game publisher.
5. Large Game publisher now takes hold of the project with proper project managers (sorry Chris we gotta let you go!)
6. Large Game publisher decides to honor the backers original stretch goals, manages project well and releases a decent Star Citizen that everyone backed for originally.
7. Profit
8. Backers happy.
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SC 2030?
 

Thargon

Thargon
Whatever this Otwin is saying is basically damage reduction and OH LOOK OVER THERE! Diversion from the real financial difficulty the company is in.

He's basically saying - oh its to dodge currency fluctuations. Sure sure, you need Coutts and a loan for that.....

Not sure they can brush it under the carpet so easily, although looking at that thread, the fans are lapping up the explanation.
 
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Thargon

Thargon
New news pages popping up:

http://www.inquisitr.com/4322447/is...ith-a-loan-and-owned-by-a-bank-no-not-really/

Looks like this is a clickbait article. The writer doesn't appear to have done much research at all - he's claiming that the company is in the excluded collateral? How does this compare to the first 3 pages of the document? Still confused. :S

https://www.pcinvasion.com/second-star-citizen-loan-explained

Also, just googled, found this https://forums.starcitizenbase.com/topic/21442-ship-loaner-matrix-cig/

[haha] Is this something to do with the loan? :D

Well, maybe it's not all bad. Worst comes to a shove, they can always take out a third loan to pay off the other two :rolleyes:
 
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Marak

Marak
Thargon said:
Well, maybe it's not all bad. Worst comes to a shove, they can always take out a third loan to pay off the other two :rolleyes:
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Nope. ALL their collateral is promised to Coutts & co. You can't use the collateral already promised for one loan for another one.

Seeing as CIG have promised everything bar their boxer shorts to Coutts, they have nothing left to offer.
 

Thargon

Thargon
Marak said:
Nope. ALL their collateral is promised to Coutts & co. You can't use the collateral already promised for one loan for another one.

Seeing as CIG have promised everything bar their boxer shorts to Coutts, they have nothing left to offer.
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Heh this is true. Damn my sarcasm creating machine must be faulty [yesnod]

I wonder how they got the first loan then? No collateral?
 
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ChiefRedCloud

ChiefRedCloud
sleutelbos said:
Unfortunately, that wont happen (not just FD, in general). The 'core game', for as much as there is one, isn't worth anything to any designer. No matter what another dev is planning, doing it from scratch would be better than take some weird and super buggy frankstein-engine wannabe-MMO as foundation. The only thing of worth are the assets (sound/graphics). The sound in SC is very sub-par so far. ED easily destroys it, as do most other sci-fi games. The graphics are *great*, but only really useful to a dev designing a game, preferably UE based, without having any assets yet but looking for something in the SC style. FD has zero use for them as it clashes with their own style. And noone will 'finish' SC for them if that means investing for many years while having the obligations to the current backers.

They are on their own.
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I agree .... Thanks

Kind of funny isn't it though ... both games SC & ED were suppose to launch in 2014 ... one did and the other is still, more or less, vapor ware ....

Chief
 
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