Newcomer / Intro Starting up with trading...but not sure if I'm doing it right!

[TickTockRob]

Flying a T9 is an experience I think we should all try. They turn rate and speed are comical (I failed to exceed the speed limit in the station in mine with 2 pips and full throttle). It is pretty robust against NPCs though but, as with most (all?) trade ships you wouldn't fight a competent player pirate.
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I think you should make your own way now you have a bit of cash. Make sure you always have insurance, use ship building site to judge a decent build cost for new ships. By all means ask about ships but from this point onwards different ships have different capabilities and suit different players. Also some players take a linear route, owning one ship at a time and seeing a progress route, others own multiple ships for various roles and have bought and sold some just to try them out. A good friend flies a T7 a lot but that idea does not suit me so I side stepped it..
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T6 - lots of cargo, pea shooter for a weapon. Using this you avoid combat as you will loose so lots of evading and running skills needed. I used one for rare trading in parallel to my first Cobra III as I could make more profit as the Cobra could not carry enough cargo.
Cobra III - can run and fight but got to be aware that against a larger ship it can die fast. I remember in the early game getting a bit brave and taking on an NPC Anaconda. In one shot he took out my shield and took the shield generator to 0% health! Safer than the T6 but not a pure combat ship and relatively limited cargo capacity. I have one in the fleet but TBH I've not flown it for a while as I now use my Asp for smuggling.

haha that does sound quite funny about the T9...I'd like to try it one day! I do like the idea of having tonnes and tonnes of stuff in a massive barge, and getting somewhere to offload it all. Just got to hope I'd get there!

At least the T6 does have a place, if it's good for trading rares over the Cobra.

I do have a good idea about what is going on. Still many questions, but at least more answers now. Still unsure exactly how to proceed with finding good trade routes, as the rules for finding routes only work some of the time, so it's a real pain (as in, a refinery system won't always want this commodity or produce that commodity). Which is good, but a pain.

I think my goal for now is to save up for an Asp, or just us the Cobra, then take it from there, regarding trading. Then get a Clipper!

But yes, I had a dodgy experience with my Hauler when I just lost all shields and managed to crawl into the starport. Could have been worse! Well, it was not long after haha

I need to get looking into these smuggler missions at some point. Was it you who said that the ships you get later on have so little heat on them, they rarely get scanned anyway and can just slip in to dock?

But yes, getting a bit further with the game now, thanks to everyone's help, and managing to stay alive (so far!)

 

[goemon]

Flying a T9 is an experience I think we should all try. ... By all means ask about ships but from this point onwards different ships have different capabilities and suit different players. Also some players take a linear route, owning one ship at a time and seeing a progress route, others own multiple ships for various roles and have bought and sold some just to try them out. A good friend flies a T7 a lot but that idea does not suit me so I side stepped it..

i can only back all of this... i found it very usefull to have a t6 for trading only ... if i wanted to focus on trading, i didn't wanted to reoutfit my multipurpose Asp back then, i simply jumped into a t6. because it can only trade, you don't get "stupid ideas". later on, i always had dedicated trading ships ... i never reoutfitted my clipper for something else than trading. other cmdr's like to have only one ship, or choosing a home, where they can easily reoutfit their python from trading to mining to combat. all of this depends on your playstyle. also, some people have fun "acting a trader" - the same goes in some way for me, who like taking eagles into combat, while having millions, or preferring a DBE for cold smuggling, very much knowing (and having the money ) that there are "better ships" to get the job done.

it's about the fun you have flying a ship, and it can even be a great fun flying "the wrong ship" for something - taking a vulture out for exploring, doing trade missions in an eagle, or taking an Adder into combat. so, try them all

I need to get looking into these smuggler missions at some point. Was it you who said that the ships you get later on have so little heat on them, they rarely get scanned anyway and can just slip in to dock?

very much depends on "the ships to get later". there are several things to have in mind: as larger your ship is, as larger is its auto-resolve distance, so it can be scanned more easily from far away.

if you run a larger ship with an undersized powerplant, it tends to run cooler - but ships differ on that. DBE with a class 2A powerplant may run at 19 percent heat, while an Asp will run around 21+ percent... depends on which other moduls you have fitted.

most of the times, situational awareness about what system security is doing, and brutal speed is more effective, then sneakiness - especially in a big ship. a clipper boosts way over 400 fully loaded, nearby as fast as a cobra MKIII - so you'll boost into a station, before anybody can scan you.

but if you want to try smuggling, there are many threads on this forum, and a cobra MKIII is by far the safest ("best") smuggler there is, for its speed, cargo, total range, and possibility to run quite cold. a very good ship to learn smuggling.

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Agreed, when smuggling it is best to simply not get too close to security ships. This means being aware of them in SC, sometimes dropping out or flying odd routes to avoid getting interdicted. The same when entering the a station. You can line up at a distance, watch the patrols routes and then fly in in a gap in the patrols.
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Interesting what you say about undersized power plants, I'll have to try that. To date I have used oversized power plants, I.e. using 50% or less of the power output available from the power plant...I'm using a 5A and about 50% power on my long distance smuggling ship and getting a SC cruise temp of 22-23% (with shields).
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Oh and yes I too started smuggling with a unshielded, high armour, Cobra. It also ran at around 22% and good when docking. Not so good for the long range stuff I'm currently doing (Asp jump range is about 32ly).

 

[happyfunball]

I was tempted to go for the T6 next, but yourself and others have suggested the Cobra is better. Is it just more fun and less messing about, or is it actually better at trading?

...

So you say to avoid the T6 altogether then? As you say, it is still a game, and I imagine you can boost the cargo hold of many other ships.

Personally, I had a bad experience flying the T6, but that was due to being fairly new at the time coupled with 1.4 release that had a higher interdiction rate. Getting blown up 3 times in a row with full cargo load tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly though, T6 is a decent ship for the price range. It has larger cargo capacity than the Cobra, so if it's pure trading you're looking for, then T6 is the way to go. Like others have said, you just need to play defensively. I just liked the Cobra in that price range for its flexibility. I did rare trading and mission running in the Cobra after I gave up on the T6 until I got the Asp Explorer.

 

[TickTockRob]

i can only back all of this... i found it very usefull to have a t6 for trading only ... if i wanted to focus on trading, i didn't wanted to reoutfit my multipurpose Asp back then, i simply jumped into a t6. because it can only trade, you don't get "stupid ideas". later on, i always had dedicated trading ships ... i never reoutfitted my clipper for something else than trading. other cmdr's like to have only one ship, or choosing a home, where they can easily reoutfit their python from trading to mining to combat. all of this depends on your playstyle. also, some people have fun "acting a trader" - the same goes in some way for me, who like taking eagles into combat, while having millions, or preferring a DBE for cold smuggling, very much knowing (and having the money ) that there are "better ships" to get the job done.

it's about the fun you have flying a ship, and it can even be a great fun flying "the wrong ship" for something - taking a vulture out for exploring, doing trade missions in an eagle, or taking an Adder into combat. so, try them all



very much depends on "the ships to get later". there are several things to have in mind: as larger your ship is, as larger is its auto-resolve distance, so it can be scanned more easily from far away.

if you run a larger ship with an undersized powerplant, it tends to run cooler - but ships differ on that. DBE with a class 2A powerplant may run at 19 percent heat, while an Asp will run around 21+ percent... depends on which other moduls you have fitted.

most of the times, situational awareness about what system security is doing, and brutal speed is more effective, then sneakiness - especially in a big ship. a clipper boosts way over 400 fully loaded, nearby as fast as a cobra MKIII - so you'll boost into a station, before anybody can scan you.

but if you want to try smuggling, there are many threads on this forum, and a cobra MKIII is by far the safest ("best") smuggler there is, for its speed, cargo, total range, and possibility to run quite cold. a very good ship to learn smuggling.

I'll look into this! I have been tempted to buy a Cobra MKIII as they're so cheap, you can't go wrong really.

I've not seen any smuggling missions so far, but will definitely keep an eye out (I may have missed them!).

My next big ship purchase will be the Asp Explorer (I'm assuming it's the Scout that you smuggle with?), I've decided. It'll cost a fair bit, but I'm half way there, and it'll probably be 50% the price again to get decent outfittings.

Can't wait for it though!

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Agreed, when smuggling it is best to simply not get too close to security ships. This means being aware of them in SC, sometimes dropping out or flying odd routes to avoid getting interdicted. The same when entering the a station. You can line up at a distance, watch the patrols routes and then fly in in a gap in the patrols.
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Interesting what you say about undersized power plants, I'll have to try that. To date I have used oversized power plants, I.e. using 50% or less of the power output available from the power plant...I'm using a 5A and about 50% power on my long distance smuggling ship and getting a SC cruise temp of 22-23% (with shields).
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Oh and yes I too started smuggling with a unshielded, high armour, Cobra. It also ran at around 22% and good when docking. Not so good for the long range stuff I'm currently doing (Asp jump range is about 32ly).

I accidentally shot a clean person while bounty hunting yesterday, and got a bounty on my head. But I had 500K of bounties to hand in to the local station, so I did my first quick dock! Pretty scary to be honest, going in at 250+ speed, but I managed it! Just! Took a couple of attempts what with being scanned though and it being one of those stupid cube type affairs (not a cube, but no idea what shape it is) to dock into - hard to know where the entrance is).

I didn't do anything special for it though, but it was a bit of a faff, so would like to do it more consistently!

I think I will end up with a Cobra and a T6 for the reasons you chaps mention. My aspirations are an Asp at the moment (Explorer), but they're on my hit list too!

 

[TickTockRob]

Personally, I had a bad experience flying the T6, but that was due to being fairly new at the time coupled with 1.4 release that had a higher interdiction rate. Getting blown up 3 times in a row with full cargo load tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly though, T6 is a decent ship for the price range. It has larger cargo capacity than the Cobra, so if it's pure trading you're looking for, then T6 is the way to go. Like others have said, you just need to play defensively. I just liked the Cobra in that price range for its flexibility. I did rare trading and mission running in the Cobra after I gave up on the T6 until I got the Asp Explorer.

ahh I decided on the Asp Explorer as well (not got it yet, but it's my target next purchase!).

I would like to try the T6, but I can see the issues there. I'm thinking it may be better to save up rather than spend the 2,000,000 on a T6 and upgrades.

 

[goemon]

My next big ship purchase will be the Asp Explorer (I'm assuming it's the Scout that you smuggle with?), I've decided. It'll cost a fair bit, but I'm half way there, and it'll probably be 50% the price again to get decent outfittings.

no, people are doing longrange smuggling in an AspE - it is faster than an Asp Scout, and speed matters, see above, and is has a better jumprange. here is a thread on smuggling ships: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143794&p=2962087&viewfull=1#post2962087

great you made your first quick docking!

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

...and it being one of those stupid cube type affairs (not a cube, but no idea what shape it is) to dock into - hard to know where the entrance is).

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Target it and the hologram shows triangles that point to the entrance. Line up with the entrance maintaining about a 10-12km distance to avoid the patrols. Wait until there is a gap in the patrols then boost in, not forgetting to request docking when close enough (can be an expensive mistake at these docking speeds).

 

[happyfunball]

I accidentally shot a clean person while bounty hunting yesterday, and got a bounty on my head. But I had 500K of bounties to hand in to the local station, so I did my first quick dock! Pretty scary to be honest, going in at 250+ speed, but I managed it! Just! Took a couple of attempts what with being scanned though and it being one of those stupid cube type affairs (not a cube, but no idea what shape it is) to dock into - hard to know where the entrance is).

Stations with mail slots, as opposed to outposts, will always start roughly (~45 degrees off) facing the planet when the instance is created. Some people have said they will stray from that in Open if the instance has been around for a while, but I've never personally experienced it. So I always approach from planet-side when I'm approaching a station. There are several threads about this if you do a search, as well as Youtube videos like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1cvw5jPL6I

If you intend on smuggling, I would recommend practicing without illegal goods first. I always approach a station as though I'm running illegal goods just to get into practice so I don't panic when I'm actually smuggling. Try to approach the station and land without being scanned every time you land. Different people have different techniques. I've got my rhythm down that I can smuggle with a docking computer.

 

[TickTockRob]

no, people are doing longrange smuggling in an AspE - it is faster than an Asp Scout, and speed matters, see above, and is has a better jumprange. here is a thread on smuggling ships: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143794&p=2962087&viewfull=1#post2962087

great you made your first quick docking!

Ahh okay! I just thought the Scout would have that benefit...but oh well, it seems it's just a cheaper ship then!

And thanks! I've had to do it a few times since haha

Definitely saving up for an ASP Explorer now...think I can just totally replace my Viper MKIV, as I don't think there'll be much need to keep it.

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Target it and the hologram shows triangles that point to the entrance. Line up with the entrance maintaining about a 10-12km distance to avoid the patrols. Wait until there is a gap in the patrols then boost in, not forgetting to request docking when close enough (can be an expensive mistake at these docking speeds).

Thanks for this! My in-game friend mentioned it to me yesterday - still a bit more of a pain than it needs to be, but this definitely helps! Thank you

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Stations with mail slots, as opposed to outposts, will always start roughly (~45 degrees off) facing the planet when the instance is created. Some people have said they will stray from that in Open if the instance has been around for a while, but I've never personally experienced it. So I always approach from planet-side when I'm approaching a station. There are several threads about this if you do a search, as well as Youtube videos like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1cvw5jPL6I

Thanks! I'll check that out, and keep it in mind. Definitely a time saver! My main issue is those funny shaped ones are hard to actually find where to go, but hopefully with the tips from here, it'll be far easier

If you intend on smuggling, I would recommend practicing without illegal goods first. I always approach a station as though I'm running illegal goods just to get into practice so I don't panic when I'm actually smuggling. Try to approach the station and land without being scanned every time you land. Different people have different techniques. I've got my rhythm down that I can smuggle with a docking computer.

haha yes, I'll do that! I've been having to do it a fair bit due to the bounty on my head at the moment (it's only 5k, but from all the bounty hunts I'm doing, I'm getting 500k from the station).

Can be a bit hairy, as I always end up going in vertically!

The heat signature of a ship that is spoken of when trying to avoid the authorities and being scanned - is this the actual heat temp on the ship, or is it another metric? Having thought about it, I'm not actually sure what it is...! I can't think what else it'd be, but when in silent running, your ship gets very hot, which suggests it's not the temp on the left of the scanner....

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

heat sig: the gauge on the left of the scanner shows your temperature and that directly relates to your heat sig on the right hand side of your HUD. The only exception to this is Silent Running, in this case your internal temperature is decoupled from your heat sig. The heat sig remains low despite your temperature rising. If your ship runs fairly cool anyway then you will heat up more slowly in silent running and you can use heat sinks to keep your internal temp down if you need to.

 

[TickTockRob]

heat sig: the gauge on the left of the scanner shows your temperature and that directly relates to your heat sig on the right hand side of your HUD. The only exception to this is Silent Running, in this case your internal temperature is decoupled from your heat sig. The heat sig remains low despite your temperature rising. If your ship runs fairly cool anyway then you will heat up more slowly in silent running and you can use heat sinks to keep your internal temp down if you need to.

ahh okay, I understand now. I did see the temp on the right, but couldn't work out how it would affect anything or be affected by things.

Did you say you want to keep it in the low 20s for you to remain hidden?

My current plan is to do the two Community Missions (or Events? Can't remember!), then buy an Asp Explorer! Then go about trading again and/or anything else. I will keep my eye open for smuggling, but I also want to raise my rank with the Federation etc.

So much to see and do! Looking forward to getting my pass for Sol too. Great how they made it locked at the start - makes it special, and stops everyone just going there straight away.

 

[goemon]

Did you say you want to keep it in the low 20s for you to remain hidden?

basically, running under 20% heat has the same effect as running silent. running silent makes you an unresolved contact, IF you haven't been locked by a ship before (otherwise you need to break lock by distance), and you stay out of autoresolve distance (200-600+ meters, depends on your ship size and the quality of other ships sensors). you can't scan what you can't lock, but you can still be tracked visually (e.g. fired on you with fixed weapons).

there are some ships, which run cooler then others - also, turning off unnecessary moduls in the right hand panel, and running undersized class a powerplants does help. the Diamondback Scout i used for the "black ribband" - a smugglers race - runs at 19% with thrusters and a class D shield, the Diamondback Explorer of the current holder of the Black Ribband probably even cooler: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=180093

but for smuggling, in most cases situational awareness and speed is more important than your heat - and then, there are always heatsinks

there is no need to get into smuggling now - community goals sound like a fun plan! this thread is always listing the actual CGs: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=230043

 

[happyfunball]

ahh okay, I understand now. I did see the temp on the right, but couldn't work out how it would affect anything or be affected by things.

Did you say you want to keep it in the low 20s for you to remain hidden?

If your heat gets too high, you'll start taking damage. The ship's computer will tell you and sparks will start to fly, so you'll get a visual and audio cue. Heat builds up by different activities: being too close to a star, using high heat weapons like beam lasers, turning on silent running thus not releasing heat into space, etc. Having different modules on also add to your heat signature, such as your shield.

Keeping your heat low does not make you invisible, btw. It just reduces the range at which ships can detect you and scan you. So even if you're running really cool a cop ship can still get up near you and scan you. It'll just take them longer since they have to get close to you first.

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

N.B. If you want an Asp then the best discount (20%) is available in Alioth (also 20% off an Orca). The catch being that you have to gain reputation with them to get the permit to go there.

 

[TickTockRob]

basically, running under 20% heat has the same effect as running silent. running silent makes you an unresolved contact, IF you haven't been locked by a ship before (otherwise you need to break lock by distance), and you stay out of autoresolve distance (200-600+ meters, depends on your ship size and the quality of other ships sensors). you can't scan what you can't lock, but you can still be tracked visually (e.g. fired on you with fixed weapons).

there are some ships, which run cooler then others - also, turning off unnecessary moduls in the right hand panel, and running undersized class a powerplants does help. the Diamondback Scout i used for the "black ribband" - a smugglers race - runs at 19% with thrusters and a class D shield, the Diamondback Explorer of the current holder of the Black Ribband probably even cooler: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=180093

but for smuggling, in most cases situational awareness and speed is more important than your heat - and then, there are always heatsinks

there is no need to get into smuggling now - community goals sound like a fun plan! this thread is always listing the actual CGs: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=230043

I'm still a bit unsure about the heat part of this game - I get the % on the left, as that's pretty clear...and if it goes above 100, you get damage etc. But the part on the right seems to just be your speed..I can't see an actual temperature anywhere...am I missing something/looking in the wrong place?

But yes, I've been monitoring the community goals from that thread - it's very useful, and I enjoy doing those! I got about 1.4 million (maybe 1.8, not sure) from the last two, so I'm happy with that.

I'll leave smuggling for now...there aren't missions good enough at the moment anyway...but will definitely keep an eye out!

If your heat gets too high, you'll start taking damage. The ship's computer will tell you and sparks will start to fly, so you'll get a visual and audio cue. Heat builds up by different activities: being too close to a star, using high heat weapons like beam lasers, turning on silent running thus not releasing heat into space, etc. Having different modules on also add to your heat signature, such as your shield.

Keeping your heat low does not make you invisible, btw. It just reduces the range at which ships can detect you and scan you. So even if you're running really cool a cop ship can still get up near you and scan you. It'll just take them longer since they have to get close to you first.

Yes, I think I'd like to just have it so I don't have to worry too much - just dive in there! But it would be nice to have the understanding to how it all works. I like the complexity of it all, yet it's all rather accessible.

N.B. If you want an Asp then the best discount (20%) is available in Alioth (also 20% off an Orca). The catch being that you have to gain reputation with them to get the permit to go there.

Yes, I was going there! But then hit the permit problem. How do you actually get these permits? Do they just appear or do you need to look out for a mission?

I did get my Asp though! So happy with it! I've been hauling 94 tonnes of stuff from one place to the next in bliss! I did get interdicted, but now I just submit and then run away...I've got chaffs, shield reinforcers (can't remember what they're called), a missile and torpedo defense system, and that's about all I need...!

Plus I can adapt it for exploration (which I'm going to do at some point), and also for bounties...very happy!

 

[CMDR Jago Kain]

Look at the right of your dashboard. Above the fuel gauge is a wiggly thing like the graphics equaliser on a hi-fi. This your heat signature. When your ship is cool it's almost flatlining, When you bork a fuel scooping attempt and heat rises this meter gets spikier than a hedgehog party.

 

[TickTockRob]

Look at the right of your dashboard. Above the fuel gauge is a wiggly thing like the graphics equaliser on a hi-fi. This your heat signature. When your ship is cool it's almost flatlining, When you bork a fuel scooping attempt and heat rises this meter gets spikier than a hedgehog party.

I'll check that - I must have missed it...or didn't see it moving! Thanks!

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Some permits are links to navy ranking in Federation and Empire, some are locked by a local faction (like Alioth) and others are just locked for reasons only the Devs know. In the example of Alioth you need to gain reputation with the controlling faction. This faction is present in one of the nearby systems so you do missions for them to improve your reputation to gain the permit. You'd have to do a search for details as it was a while ago when I got mine.
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For what it is worth my taxi Hauler just got destroyed by interdiction (Cobra + wingmate)...annoying but not the end of the world.

 

[goemon]

I'll check that - I must have missed it...or didn't see it moving! Thanks!

this is describing heat mechanic/smuggling/targeting from devs perspective: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68069&page=5&p=1158586&viewfull=1#post1158586