We can take it to PM. No problem, Robert!
General / Off-Topic Sticks & Stones
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We can take it to PM. No problem, Robert!
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I don’t believe there is such a thing as free speech anyway.
Libel and slander certainly restrict what you can say/print/broadcast. Then, if a chap and I were in a pub discussing a plan to rob a bank or planting a bomb for some cause or other and were overheard, we would certainly be in trouble, just for talking. There is also (certainly in the UK) incitement. The act of rousing up a crowd who then go on the rampage but all you’ve done is talk. Charles Manson killed no one, but his words to others landed him in prison.
So the argument for all of the above is the consequences of the words and this is where, for me, some political correctness is correct.
I agree with Phisto that laughing at a joke can be fine as long as you are treating people, any people, with respect in your day to day dealings with them. I would suggest though that many don’t make that distinction and that has consequences.
If you’re some sort of minority in tbe society you live in and some comedian makes a joke about your minority the night before on TV, then some people are going to feel fine about giving you some of that today be that at work, in a store or just minding your own business down the street. Anyone would be rightly cheesed off.
I know there are people who object to minding their P’s & Q’s because they feel it is the other persons fault for being offended but we all manage it. I’ve been to funerals for people who did some pretty awful things when they were alive, it would not be the family’s fault for being offended if I started banging on about those terrible deeds at the funeral, they would rightly be highly offended.
That’s where it becomes difficult, the funeral example is an extreme but who really gets to judge what is offensive and to who?
Finally, I listened to a great podcast recently that discussed tyrannical regimes from the Nazis to modern day South American ones who all used ‘humour’ that ended up dehumanising sections of society. We all know where that ends up.
So words, for me, are dangerous, we do have restrictions, if we need more or less, who is making that decision? I tend to lean toward caution.
Libel and slander certainly restrict what you can say/print/broadcast. Then, if a chap and I were in a pub discussing a plan to rob a bank or planting a bomb for some cause or other and were overheard, we would certainly be in trouble, just for talking. There is also (certainly in the UK) incitement. The act of rousing up a crowd who then go on the rampage but all you’ve done is talk. Charles Manson killed no one, but his words to others landed him in prison.
So the argument for all of the above is the consequences of the words and this is where, for me, some political correctness is correct.
I agree with Phisto that laughing at a joke can be fine as long as you are treating people, any people, with respect in your day to day dealings with them. I would suggest though that many don’t make that distinction and that has consequences.
If you’re some sort of minority in tbe society you live in and some comedian makes a joke about your minority the night before on TV, then some people are going to feel fine about giving you some of that today be that at work, in a store or just minding your own business down the street. Anyone would be rightly cheesed off.
I know there are people who object to minding their P’s & Q’s because they feel it is the other persons fault for being offended but we all manage it. I’ve been to funerals for people who did some pretty awful things when they were alive, it would not be the family’s fault for being offended if I started banging on about those terrible deeds at the funeral, they would rightly be highly offended.
That’s where it becomes difficult, the funeral example is an extreme but who really gets to judge what is offensive and to who?
Finally, I listened to a great podcast recently that discussed tyrannical regimes from the Nazis to modern day South American ones who all used ‘humour’ that ended up dehumanising sections of society. We all know where that ends up.
So words, for me, are dangerous, we do have restrictions, if we need more or less, who is making that decision? I tend to lean toward caution.
Watched it yesterday. It was great. I won't get into the discussion here, because you all won't be blaming TJ for the thread lock this time 
I think some of you lot should look up what 'free Speech' means , You can say what-ever-you-like , But not WHERE ever you like
Yes it's often like that in reality.
Given Robert's caution, I'm just going say that classifying refusal to use pronouns with hate speech and making it punishable by law is a dramatic over reaction and the opposite of free speech. If I don't want to call you a panther, or a peanut butter sandwich just because you insist that you are one, nobody should be able to make me or punish me if I refuse.
Since I brought up Jordan Peterson who happens to be an extremely controversial figure in the world right now, I'll share a video here that came out a few years ago when he first started to show up on radar. It doesn't speak to this issue particularly, but it does touch on it and other important issues in one of the more infamous "interviews" to hit the Internet:
I watched this last week and to be honest i didnt find it really that funny and i typically love Dark humour ( im a massive fan of Bill Hicks and Bob Stanhope).
But i do applaud the fact that it got made and he said the things he did, because outrage culture typically kills things like this.
Im a big fan of Bill Burr also, he has a new standup coming to Netflix soon and apparently he tackles PC/outrage culture in it which im really looking forward to.
But i do applaud the fact that it got made and he said the things he did, because outrage culture typically kills things like this.
Im a big fan of Bill Burr also, he has a new standup coming to Netflix soon and apparently he tackles PC/outrage culture in it which im really looking forward to.
Aye. Bill Burr is great. Has a pretty neat podcast he's running for the last decade or something like that. Usually just discusses random stuff, his career, relationships, society, culture, music, just wacky stories from his life etc.
I still think his Philadelphia "incident" is one of the funniest things I've heard, and colossal amount of profanity has nothing to do with it
Just the whole story behind that performance, and how he tackled it.
I saw him live back in the mid 90's. Oh how things have changed and not for the better.
Same here, it was OK but he didn't really keep my attention.
In the end I gave up on him and watched an old Eddie Murphy stand up routine instead which was a lot better.
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Dave Chappel is easily 2 of my top 5 favorite comedians. I can't understand how anyone could have a problem with stand up comedy. That's like saying you don't like to smile, laugh, or otherwise enjoy yourself.
He wants people to have a problem with it, its a fairly common gimmick in standup.
"Cancel culture" just comes across to me as "I said something heinous and now the advertisers aren't paying me, I thought this was a free country", like nobody's arresting him or anything for his bit, they're just... disapproving. Free speech versus free speech, freedom of speech isn't freedom from criticism, etc etc etc. I'd be interested to see whether Chapelle would have the same reaction to a white comedian dropping a bunch of racist jokes.Watching this now. Have not seen Sticks and Stones yet.
I wonder how Boyle's Last Days of Sodom would go.
EDIT: Got about half way through. They got into that podcast thing where they say the same thing over and over and I can only take so much of that. More of a critique of style than content, but there you go.
I'm not comfortable at all with the idea of a "Cancel Culture." First time I've heard that phrase. Comedians gonna comedian. In fact, I see them as the modern equivalent of the prophets of old saying the uncomfortable truths the rest of us can't or won't.
I'm not transsexual either, so I can't really say how I'd take the joke. As a person from a white, male middle class US Midwestern background I do laugh my butt off at jokes of which I'm the butt of. It's good to be self aware and have a sense of humor. That said, I hardly have any real idea what the transsexual experience is like but I suspect there are more than a few transsexual people that enjoyed the show.
No group being a monolith, after all. I may investigate those voices and post about it.
We are in danger of the dawn of rule by the offended class
Free speech has always had consequences. In the past, if someone said something that offended me, I was free to react as I chose to see appropriate, whether that was to ignore, challenge, refute, etc. It didn't involve group-think or gov't intervention.
Today is a different environment due to the emergence and evolution of social media and the information explosion. It exaggerates everything to the point of hysteria and there has been very little consideration of the consequences that it is having.
Most people today are so consumed with social media that they have little to no grounding in history and are therefore not well equipped to give current events proper context. Our education systems are failing terribly in this regard.
Most outrage culture emerges from the 60's era civil rights and sexual revolution movements. Add to that the post-modern transformation of Communism into Identity Politics and you arrive at rule by the offended.
Let me know when you've grasped all that and we can then have a discussion about the genetic, cultural, and health concerns as they relate to origins of racism.
Free speech has always had consequences. In the past, if someone said something that offended me, I was free to react as I chose to see appropriate, whether that was to ignore, challenge, refute, etc. It didn't involve group-think or gov't intervention.
Today is a different environment due to the emergence and evolution of social media and the information explosion. It exaggerates everything to the point of hysteria and there has been very little consideration of the consequences that it is having.
Most people today are so consumed with social media that they have little to no grounding in history and are therefore not well equipped to give current events proper context. Our education systems are failing terribly in this regard.
Most outrage culture emerges from the 60's era civil rights and sexual revolution movements. Add to that the post-modern transformation of Communism into Identity Politics and you arrive at rule by the offended.
Let me know when you've grasped all that and we can then have a discussion about the genetic, cultural, and health concerns as they relate to origins of racism.
This is a good point. When you attach what you say to your paycheck be careful you haven't made a deal with the devil.
It is very hard to be correct and popular.
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