Strange Design Choices

Credit transfers are a no go. Would just be sold for real money.

Why on earth give new players credits to get going??
The whole point of Elite is that you start with nothing and make your own way.
If you shortcut the most interesting part of the game play you might as well play something else.
 
I'm quite opposed to the concept of transferring credits from one player to another. Whilst there is a certain logic in the relation of this to real world, it can be abused and the way the OP described it is exactly the abuse I mean. Rich player transfers credits to poorer, less experienced/skilled player to buy a big honkin new ship/pay insurance when latter destroys his/her own ship and can't rebuy (newbie mistake much discussed). This game, to me is about playing the game, not being lazy or impatient with a sugardaddie friend to bail you out every time you mess up. The rest of us pay for our mistakes and learn from them.
 
But if it's a simulator, why can't I send my mate some credits? Is that not allowed in the future?

Because it's a simulator that exists in the same world where gold farmers exist. Unfortunately on this issue, you're basically opening a world of hurt whatever you do.
 
You'll find that the 'animation' when entering the outfitting (going down the lift and in to the hanger) locks you out of the menus ever since there was an outfitting bug where you'd start changing your load-out before the ship had entered the hanger, and this bugged the buying process. FD locked this so you had to wait and the bug wouldn't be triggered... I guess they've not gone back to fix that bug ;)
 
I have to agree that there are a lot of design choices about small stuff like these that I also find weird, if not just plain bad. I don't mind the launching animation but why not have a simple 'cancel launch' command? You couldn't possibly claim with a straight face that it would be difficult to code in!

The outfitting screen is also a good example of an unintuitive interface. Even with the basic filters implemented in 1.1, you still have to scroll a lot to find what you need. Why use a drop-down filter like this in the first place? Wouldn't a column based interface with stats or category based choices be so much better? I certainly think it would!

As for money transfers not being in because it can be 'abused', seriously? In a game where there actual hacks out there and where 'valid' exploit tactics like station griefing are present, this is the 'abuse' FD wants to prevent?
Don't get me wrong, I also love this game but I can't just blindly defend things I consider bad design choices either. This kind of arbitrary restrictions don't make the game harder, only more frustrating.
 
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None of the design choices you've mentioned are "strange".

The Pause button is a hang-over from when there was to be an offline single-player mode, and by all rights should have been removed from the game.

1. How many times have you checked your cell when riding a roller coaster? Same thing... it get's hard to read, much less push buttons.

2. See #1. (Note: Those that think it's hiding a loading screen, it's not. The only time it can be considered that is when you make changes to your ship in outfitting because those modules are actually visible when you're flying about). It's a simulation of undocking operations (more on the simulation later).

3. Would you rather be fined for screwing up the landing/take off queue? Seriously... would you? There's a ton of people outside waiting on a docking slot that don't need to be held up by your indecisiveness nor your fumbling memory issues.

4. The possibility for abuse outweighs the need for it in game. It's that simple.

5. See #4

6. It's simulating that someone already bought your used heap of scrap. And decided not to inform you because you left the lieu unflushed.

7. That wasn't 300m, it was 300km.... you dropped out nowhere near your friend.

TLDR (#8?). It's a simulator that simulates things in the attempt to immerse the player into the game's world.

9(?). No, game design is not about the player, it's about the game AND the player. More importantly decides how, when, where and why someone playing the game can interact with the player, and the how, when, where and why the player can interact with the game. It describes the world to the extent the designer(s) choose(/s).

TL;DR - Your gameplay experience may not equate to mine, so please, lay off the subjective criticisms. They do no good as they are often provided with out constructive inclinations, valid complaints or otherwise brilliant solutions. Whereas I may choose to use common sense of the why when deciding certain design deficiencies I might glimpse, others choose not.

1) I don't see where the connect to a rollercoaster comes from. You and I must clearly be experiencing different things. Slowly lowering down, rotating and sliding back reminds you of a theme park ride? Dude, you're going to be so surprised when you actually try out a real rollercoaster. Those things are fast! Personally, I relate it to an automatic carwash... and yes, I often use my phone while being pulled at 1 mile an hour.

3) Erm... again, not 100% sure what you're getting at. In real life, I've started to drive out of a car park, and then changed my mind and reversed back into a space. It's idiotic for me to think "Well, I've started now, I'd better leave just in case someone else needs this space... despite there being 2 dozen other free spaces."

4) Not sure why people consider this abuse. I've seen glitches where people were able to get 50 million credits in one hour. THAT I see as an abuse of the game! It's quite close to being similar to an open-world game. You should be able to do what you want. Personally I hate HATE trading, and I LOVE combat... however, my choices are trade for a couple of weeks so that I can upgrade my ship to how I want it to be, or fight 1000 fights back to back to earn the same credits, until the point that I get bored of combat, and no longer wish to play it.If people WANT to fast-track the game, they SHOULD be allowed to. What's fun to you isn't fun for everyone. In any case, if you don't want them to play with you, you have 400 billion other systems to choose from. Sure, it's open to abuse, but so what? I imagine it'll come one day, seeing as I can already share Platinum with my friend, so that's 40k there and then. The designers just like time wasting, it seems.

6) What? They sold my ship less than 1 second after I pressed the sell button? Oh, I get it now... you're one of those overly imaginative players... that's why you're defending everything. Why am I wasting my time here then?

7) Stop making things up! It's really embarrassing! My throttle was down, and the wake point was in my face. 3km, not 300m (meant 3000m), and certainly not 300km. And yet I can drop out 10k from a station and still see ships on my radar. So tell me, why defend this one? Are you able to help your friends each and every time?

(*EDIT - Just dropped out of SC at a station, and I was 300km away from it. When I appeared, I was 10km away. So why does it work fine here, but not when trying to help a friend, while locked onto a low wake? Again, this is a single player game with minor multiplayer elements. Roll on 1.2)

8) So... like every game then...?

9) I'll tell you what... when you become a game designer, you tell me that again. Let me know how your games turn out.

About the Subjectve criticisms comment. It's a discussion, in the discussion thread. Hopefully the designers will see this thread and think... Oh, look, the vast majority of posters agree with the op on a few of these points. Perhaps we should see what we can do about these potential issues. Stop sounding so arrogant.

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Interdiction - seriously? I've never ever had an interdiction problem, submit boost FSD nothings ever touched me.

I've been caught once or twice, but like I said, this was 5 minutes into the game for my mate. Didn't really stand a chance against a Master Cobra in his default Sidewinder. It was a learning experience for him for sure! :) My issue was that I couldn't drop out at the wake and give him a hand, even though I was right there. Just empty space.

Wanted to pull off that "We bring friends" line from the trailer. Yeah... that was embarrassing.
 
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1) Being able to go into the Outfitter menu when moving into the hanger was stopped after many mechanics got killed when trying to swap out modules when the ship was moving. It was decided that it would cost too much to make the moving platform on all stations safe to work on when moving so locked out the menu option instead.

2) I like all the animations :).

4) So you're happy to be interdicted by someone and instead of being asked for cargo they demand you give them all your credits?

Of course you could limit credit transfer to just people you've friended but then they will just demand you accept their friend request and give them all your credits or they will destroy your ship.

Additionally people will start up websites where you can sign up for in-game credits at the cost of real money, something I am sure Frontier would not want.

Personally I would love credit transfer between friends but not when I see how this could be abused.

7) Yes, I got interdicted loads of times when I first started out, although it can be a pain at times, it was one of the reasons I like the game.
 
I am fairly certain there is an instance change when you launch as I have often seen players disappear from my radar and appear as the animation progresses. This happens far to often and without it leaving a wake that I have come to think that it is used for loading the new instance you enter on leaving the dock.
 
7) Yes, I got interdicted loads of times when I first started out, although it can be a pain at times, it was one of the reasons I like the game.

My point is that I couldn't help my friend. Not that he was interdicted. When trying to make a good impression, it's often not best to kill the player within the first 5 minutes of play. If I could have dropped in and helped him kill his attacker, he'd have loved the game instantly.

Also, regarding pirates demanding credits. Sure, I think that'd be more fun for both pirates and players. Obs the pirates would learn not to ask for too much, but I see quite a bit of fun in people blockading planets, requiring tolls, etc. That happened all the time back in my Freelancer days, and it was awesome!

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I am fairly certain there is an instance change when you launch as I have often seen players disappear from my radar and appear as the animation progresses. This happens far to often and without it leaving a wake that I have come to think that it is used for loading the new instance you enter on leaving the dock.

Never seen that. I have, however, heard a battle while in the hanger, and emerged to see people still fighting up top.
 
How about this. It's NOT a blast shield. It's a gravity well generator with an advanced plasma null field grid in a 40MW range... to aid in the docking procedure.

The big pads require two.
 
I've just been reading through the "Pause Button" thread, and I figured I'd share a few things I'm finding a bit odd.

For starters, players have been questioning the use of the word "Pause" in this game for a while. Why would they call it that? Why not something more accurate, like "Menu"?

A few things that are really getting to me lately are the following:

1) Disabling all menus if when docked you select "Outfitting" from the menu. I can get around this by entering the hanger first, and then doing other things while the ship plays though an animation, but why lock me out? Personally, I'd prefer to have certain menus only available to you if you actually enter the hanger. Once or twice I've clicked on that by accident. Other times, I literally just want to check if they have a certain module in stock, and have to sit through a long, boring animation just to find that they don't, which then leads to...

2) The long boring launch animation. Luckily on this one, they don't completely lock all other menus. If you press launch, you can check your side menus and plan your route. But why is the animation so long? It just seems so egotistical to me. I don't mind the rotation, and sliding in to place, but what on earth is the deal with having to wait for that staircase to fold down? If you don't fly off straight away, it stands back up anyway, and there's occasionally a large tower in front of you anyway, so it's not like people will just fly forwards. I fly vertically up, and then out the system. Why do I need to sit there for an additional 14 seconds just to watch the pointless animation? Does anyone know what it does? Also, I've just upgraded my ship to a Lakon... and is it me, or is the launching animation even longer now?

3) Accidentally pressing the Launch button. Man, this one is annoying! Luckily I've only done this twice since I got the game, but what a pain. Not only do you have to sit through the animation, but you can't stop it. Then, once you're released from the dock, you can't just reconnect... nope! You have to leave the station, request docking again, and then fly back in. This one needs a cancel button in my opinion. Just rewind the animation back to the default landing state. Don't force us to leave the entire station!

4) This one's a touchy one, but it's driving me nuts. A mate of mine recently got the game, but he's not interested in anything but combat. He informed me that he was about 20k credits short of something he wanted to buy. I have a lot of money, so I thought I'd help him out. However, the only way I can help him out is by flying into a station, buying the most expensive things they have, flying 10km from the station, abandoning them, and then wait for him to pick them up, fly into the station with his 2 cargo slot Eagle, sell the items, and repeat until he has enough. Why can't I just wire my friends some credits? I know there was talk about farming money... but this is crazy, in my eyes.

5) Say I'm looking to upgrade a weapon, and selling my old one. So I'm docked at a station while voice chatting with my mate who's also docked at the same station. I don't want the gun I have any more, but he does. The thing is, the station we're at doesn't sell the gun I have. I would like to give him the gun... but nope. The only person I can sell my gun to is the outfitter, who will kindly hold onto my gun until I leave the area, but won't sell it to anyone else.

6) Like I said, I recently traded in my Cobra for a Lakon 6. Without leaving the station, I look in outfitting, and find the the jump range of this ship is a lot less, and I can't afford an upgrade, so I want to buy back my old ship. Tough! It's been melted down for scrap, instantly, never to be seen again.

7) Interdiction. My friend was interdicted within the first 5 minutes of playing. Seriously, his first super cruise, and was instantly interdicted. I was flying right next to him, but couldn't do anything. I tried to interdict the person attacking him, and all that did was make my menu go mad for a few seconds. He drops out, and a low wake appears. I lock onto it, drop my speed to the lowest it can go, and slowly fly towards it. No indicator telling me to drop out. I get 3km metres away and decide to manually drop out. I do so, and I'm in the middle of empty space. Meanwhile, my mate gets utterly destroyed, and is immediately put off the game for a short while.

TLDR - What I simply can't get my head around is how the designers can't seem to put their finger on what they want the game to be like. Is it a simulator? Is that why we have to jump through so many hoops just to fly to a system and dock? Why I have to sit through a long, pointless animation of some stairs lowering? But if it's a simulator, why can't I send my mate some credits? Is that not allowed in the future?

The game does so much right, but it gets the simple things wrong. The other day I was playing Torchlight 2 with another friend. I described the experience as a single player game, with a friend on your screen. Neither of us could figure out how to send each other items, or share money. If we weren't on the same screen, we were invisible on the map, meaning the only way to find each other was to verbally direct... It just felt lonely... and that's how Elite feels. Massive... but empty. I don't think any games like this should include boring, pointless, elements.

Game design is meant to be about the player. If something doesn't add to the game, and instead takes something away from the player's experience, then that element should be removed, or at least improved.

*Disclaimer - Love this game, and have been playing it a lot the last week or so... but that cursed stair animation is really starting to grate on me after watching it well over a hundred times.


Indeed, agree with all of that. Have some rep Sir.
 
Not fussed personally about most of the points, except for number 2. I agree wholeheartedly. I don't care what those things are, stairs, blast shields, whatever. Why should I be made to watch them? My ship can go straight up, I don't need to wait for silly bits of metal to take an absolute age performing a pointless manoeuvre. And on the subject of docking, why do you even have to turn around when you've landed on one of the platforms (i.e. not one of the space stations with the letterbox)... I can fly off any way, there is nothing blocking me except for the silly animations...

Just to be clear, I love this game. But things can be improved. :)
 
None of the design choices you've mentioned are "strange".

The Pause button is a hang-over from when there was to be an offline single-player mode, and by all rights should have been removed from the game.

1. How many times have you checked your cell when riding a roller coaster? Same thing... it get's hard to read, much less push buttons.

2. See #1. (Note: Those that think it's hiding a loading screen, it's not. The only time it can be considered that is when you make changes to your ship in outfitting because those modules are actually visible when you're flying about). It's a simulation of undocking operations (more on the simulation later).

3. Would you rather be fined for screwing up the landing/take off queue? Seriously... would you? There's a ton of people outside waiting on a docking slot that don't need to be held up by your indecisiveness nor your fumbling memory issues.

4. The possibility for abuse outweighs the need for it in game. It's that simple.

5. See #4

6. It's simulating that someone already bought your used heap of scrap. And decided not to inform you because you left the lieu unflushed.

7. That wasn't 300m, it was 300km.... you dropped out nowhere near your friend.

TLDR (#8?). It's a simulator that simulates things in the attempt to immerse the player into the game's world.

9(?). No, game design is not about the player, it's about the game AND the player. More importantly decides how, when, where and why someone playing the game can interact with the player, and the how, when, where and why the player can interact with the game. It describes the world to the extent the designer(s) choose(/s).

TL;DR - Your gameplay experience may not equate to mine, so please, lay off the subjective criticisms. They do no good as they are often provided with out constructive inclinations, valid complaints or otherwise brilliant solutions. Whereas I may choose to use common sense of the why when deciding certain design deficiencies I might glimpse, others choose not.

I wish this forum had downvote as well as rep so the smartarses and rude people could see they're impressing no one.

The op has some valid points and the animation of the blast shield is annoying.

I've noticed a bug since 1.1 where on docking, sometimes launch is initially selected rather than services. Very annoying.

As for transferring money, I think sadly this game is mostly about the progression currently, give your friends money and you won't be helping them enjoy the game. I don't believe in the argument against gold farming though. They were happy not long ago to let a bug make several billionaires, with the argument being it didn't effect any one else if some people get rich.
 
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I don't know why we need an "enter hanger" button anyway, since everything else you can do puts you into it anyway, even just launching straight away, it would be better if the pad just took you into the hanger as soon as you landed, at least you would be facing the right way for taking off again then.
 
I wish this forum had downvote as well as rep so the smartarses and rude people could see they're impressing no one.

The op has some valid points and the animation of the blast shield is annoying.

I've noticed a bug since 1.1 where on docking, sometimes launch is initially selected rather than services. Very annoying.

As for transferring money, I think sadly this game is mostly about the progression currently, give your friends money and you won't be helping them enjoy the game. I don't believe in the argument against gold farming though. They were happy not long ago to let a bug make several billionaires, with the argument being it didn't effect any one else if some people get rich.

Both you and the OP missed the point I was trying to make as neither you nor the OP understand that most of the issues made in the OP's post are there to simulate what would or could happen in a realistic situation, the game being a simulation after all. Some shortcuts obviously have been made to keep downtime to a minimum, such as the transfer of cargo to and from your ship which realistically would take hours. The reason for the animated portions of moving to and from the hanger are due to fundamental changes to the ships appearance during outfitting is because rather than having a load screen, they entertain you with the transition to the hanger while moving you to your own instance to reduce load issues to other players in the docking area/station instance. Much like when jumping to another system, including the countdown part, you're put in "witch space" where you have little to no control over your vessel. It's meant to provide immersion in a simulation. I think we can all agree how much load screens can be immersion breaking elements, no? Without those simulations, the game itself would seem lifeless and ultimately unrealistic.

While you entitled to your opinion concerning "gold farming", those billionaires also had that money removed from their accounts, some of which were put in the red (negative balance) as a result. The bug was fixed soon after once discovered, so your argument there is moot.

The bug with launch being highlighted was occurring prior to 1.1, btw.

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To hopefully make it easier to understand with another analogy: In real life, when you want to eat something, you or another has to prepare the food before you eat it, it doesn't just suddenly appear. With a bit of common sense and a bit of imagination, those "annoyances" can actually end up making the game better.

Side note : If I came across as sarcastic, facetious, or otherwise arrogant, it wasn't my intention.
 
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Both you and the OP missed the point I was trying to make as neither you nor the OP understand that most of the issues made in the OP's post are there to simulate what would or could happen in a realistic situation, the game being a simulation after all.

We understood your point... and in many ways I wish I could see the game the same way you do. The thing is, like I said, the designers can't decide what elements to simulate, and which elements to make fun. There's a balance between fun and a grind... Flying 50 minutes straight to drop off some resources to a station. Not fun. Watching a counter tick down as you approach a station is ok the first hundred times, but the next several thousand? Nope, not fun! The number of times I've flown past a station disengage point is insane. I keep trying to find ways to get there as fast as possible... but sometimes it's impossible to avoid. Remember, the game is designed to be playable with an Oculus Rift. How likely is it that people will want to sit there staring at a Windows 95 screensaver for 50 minutes? Very unlikely. However, they can't take the headset off, otherwise they'll miss their mark or even get interdicted and blown up. Come on! Stop defending the design decisions! The blast shield is completely unnecessary. It's not fun, and as far as it seems the majority apparently feel, it detracts from the game. But sure, like someone else said, let's put on some blinkers, pretend that it's super important, and grin inanely every time the animation starts. Pssst, in real life, it's unlikely the blast shield would be used like that for a VTOL... nor would it wait until you are looking at it before it folds away. Very strange seeing as this is a simulation... right?

The reason for the animated portions of moving to and from the hanger are due to fundamental changes to the ships appearance during outfitting is because rather than having a load screen, they entertain you with the transition to the hanger while moving you to your own instance to reduce load issues to other players in the docking area/station instance.

No it isn't! You're not put in your own instance. I really wish people would stop making this up! The reason the ship should only be viewed while in the hanger is to keep poly-count draws down. If this happened within the main station, you'd have high resolution textures, high res models, and an entire simulation happening in the background, all being rendered at once. It's a waste of computer resources. It's for performance reasons, and it does NOT happen during the animation.

The ships are still flying around you while you're docked. Still getting shot. Still blowing up. You can hear it happening.

I'm done talking about this with you. You're clearly one of the few that rates the game a perfect 10. I'm glad you've found the perfect game for you, well done! Now let the greater percentage of players share their opinion without you telling them they're 100% wrong. I'm not making stuff up, and I'm not sugar coating my opinions. Stop stating things as facts, and while you're at it, go try out a real rollercoaster. I bet it'll blow your mind!
 
Why are they grinding for cash? Cannot they just enjoy the game and let the cash accumulate over time and buy the ship when they eventually have enough? I.e. enjoy the game, rather than turn it into a grind fest?
He's having a hard time with the lower class ships with the changes that came in 1.1. He's not interested in exploration, mining, or trading and there really no combat variety or lucrative aspect to it. That's why I go and help him on occasion.
 
I don't know why we need an "enter hanger" button anyway, since everything else you can do puts you into it anyway, even just launching straight away, it would be better if the pad just took you into the hanger as soon as you landed, at least you would be facing the right way for taking off again then.

This. There's no action path where you can land and leave again without the pad having to lower and rotate you anyway. Therefore, for the sakes of optimization, the pad should automatically pull you into the hangar immediately on dock.
 
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