Subnautica

[Mengy]

Fair enough. I personally like Roguelikes... as long as the start of the game is fun.

Subnautica is a game where I enjoy the start of the game. There’s just enough variation that each start feels unique, while familiar enough that each new survivor I play gets established faster than the one before. Unknown Worlds managed to make resource gathering challenging enough to be entertaining IMO, while keeping resource requirements low enough that it didn’t feel like a grind to me.

When I tried No Man’s Sky, I realized fairly quickly that there would be no replaying the start of that game. In fact, I got so tired of the grind to simply keep my life support working, that I quit and uninstalled after about a week IIRC. Given that I have 20 year old games that I like to start up and play until I feel like victory is inevitable, or survival is assured, that’s really saying something.

I love Roguelikes, but I’m not a fan of using “one death mode” in games which aren’t designed around it.

That said, there are some games which I find work very well when played in “roguelike mode” even though they aren’t true roguelikes. Minecraft is one. I have a main world I’ve been playing for many years now which I just keep building anew into where I can die over and over again, but I also occasionally start new hardcore worlds just for kicks. Minecraft’s start is always so completely unique and different that the game lends itself greatly to a hardcore mode, because the game start is always so different and interesting.

For myself, Subnautica’s start isn’t different enough every time to make hardcore mode worth it. The life pod locations are the same in every game. I know the devs experimented with a proc gen world for the game but eventually went with a hand crafted one instead, and while that did wonders for the game’s superb atmosphere it also lessened the appeal of Subnautica hardcore mode to me. It would be neat to have an alternative proc gen world in the game alongside the hand crafted one!

 

[Jenner]

Ironman is something that I rarely do, and I don't think I ever would in a game like Subnautica for reasons that Chris so aptly put. It would not increase my enjoyment.

I think the last game I played with Ironman on was Stellaris. It made sense in that game, since the whole point is to roll with the punches and not save scum. Nothing is going to instantly kill you.

 

[Stigbob]

Ironman is something that I rarely do, and I don't think I ever would in a game like Subnautica for reasons that Chris so aptly put. It would not increase my enjoyment.

I think the last game I played with Ironman on was Stellaris. It made sense in that game, since the whole point is to roll with the punches and not save scum. Nothing is going to instantly kill you.

Going for a swim is more fun* when you can't respawn, crabsquids and pitch black caves are great. As for the end game beasties that just gets silly, on my first ironman playthrough I swam through the forcefield to the final building with the wreckage of my cyclops way behind me and the prawn melting in the lava on a mad dash from the cyclops disaster to the door. One of the most fun things I've done in gaming.



*fun is subjective YMMV all opinions are equal.

 

[Chris Simon]

Going for a swim is more fun* when you can't respawn, crabsquids and pitch black caves are great. As for the end game beasties that just gets silly, on my first ironman playthrough I swam through the forcefield to the final building with the wreckage of my cyclops way behind me and the prawn melting in the lava on a mad dash from the cyclops disaster to the door. One of the most fun things I've done in gaming.



*fun is subjective YMMV all opinions are equal.

The problem with this approach is...
If it works out, it's an amazing thrill and great unforgettable experience. If it doesn't work out, you're uninstall the game and will be hating it forever.

We, that's at least what I'd do. And that would be unfair to the game.

 

[Jenner]

The problem with this approach is...
If it works out, it's an amazing thrill and great unforgettable experience. If it doesn't work out, you're uninstall the game and will be hating it forever.

We, that's at least what I'd do. And that would be unfair to the game.

Exactly.

Still, I agree with Stigbob that fun is subjective. I'm glad he enjoys ironman subnautica. It's not how I want to play, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Chris Simon]

Exactly.

Still, I agree with Stigbob that fun is subjective. I'm glad he enjoys ironman subnautica. It's not how I want to play, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh, yeah, like I said previously, I don't want to argue with anybody who enjoys permadeath experience. I WISH I was that kind of guy.

 

[Stigbob]

Oh, yeah, like I said previously, I don't want to argue with anybody who enjoys permadeath experience. I WISH I was that kind of guy.

Give it a bash.

The hard thing is getting that one bit of magnetite for a scanning room IIRC, usually at the extreme depth of oxygen capability in the shroom cave. Once you have a scanning room even on ironman its fairly easy as you can locate things you need and scout out the route with the drones, then use their beacons to home in on the stuff in quick in and out raids.

 

[Kaocraft]

The problem with this approach is...
If it works out, it's an amazing thrill and great unforgettable experience. If it doesn't work out, you're uninstall the game and will be hating it forever.

We, that's at least what I'd do. And that would be unfair to the game.

That's what I did, except for the hating it forever bit. I fully intend to go back to Subnautica and I expect it will be the game I play when I next have a big chunk of gaming time ahead of me, But yeah for sure after 20-30 hours you aren't going to want to just start all over again right away. Fortunately there are a couple of similar freeform crafting/exploration/survival games which I like to play in permadeath mode, so I just rotate through them and switch to a new game each time I die. By the time I get back to the initial game it feels unfamiliar enough that a fresh start won't be boring.

 

[Zak Gordon]

I get the feeling once i've decided to try to finish the game, i could get into playing it in it's 'creative' mode (if that is what it is called). I mean it's the best underwater/diving/snorkling/live aquarium game i think i've seen, and the visuals and sound are so spot on for that genre. I could simply enjoy swimming around enjoying all that, probably over and over.

 

[MTBFritz]

What I really like about Subnautica is that it offers me different gameplay options to "finetune" my enjoyment. Of course I started out with the stock game settings but hunting for food and keeping stock of water soon became annoying as hell so I m going with the game version that takes both these factors off my to-worry list and I cant really say that I miss it. It has given me more freedom and time, reduces pressure and enables me to enjoy the game more. I dont think I will activate food+water again. I gave the creative mode a go as well but losing all sense of progression simply kills the enjoyment for me. I wish creative mode would offer switches for all the things it disables rather then forcing me to play in essentially "god-mode" instead.

Subnautica represented a slow learning curve for me, it took me dozens of hours to build my very first base. Games that see such a massive investment of time from my part dont do well with perma-death mechanics because while I agree that the "thrill" adds to the gameplay value getting killed by a glitch or simple mistake on my part would result in my giving up instead of going through it all again. Strangely enough I dont have this problem in games like Grim Dawn or D3 so it probably comes down to routine and knowledge. Which means that "maybe" I will get there in Subnautica as well given time. I know for a fact that if Subnautica would ve been a perma-death experience from the start without the option to disable it...I wouldnt even have picked it up in the first place.

The gameplay entertainment I get from Subn is the immersion factor. I simply love the shallow waters and base building is an absolute blast. My ingame progression hurts of course but I dont really care ^^

 

[Siobhan]

What I really like about Subnautica is that it offers me different gameplay options to "finetune" my enjoyment. Of course I started out with the stock game settings but hunting for food and keeping stock of water soon became annoying as hell so I m going with the game version that takes both these factors off my to-worry list and I cant really say that I miss it. It has given me more freedom and time, reduces pressure and enables me to enjoy the game more. I dont think I will activate food+water again. I gave the creative mode a go as well but losing all sense of progression simply kills the enjoyment for me. I wish creative mode would offer switches for all the things it disables rather then forcing me to play in essentially "god-mode" instead.

You can turn most of the requirements stuff on and off from the console, if you want that experience.

 

[Siobhan]

Give it a bash.

The hard thing is getting that one bit of magnetite for a scanning room IIRC, usually at the extreme depth of oxygen capability in the shroom cave. Once you have a scanning room even on ironman its fairly easy as you can locate things you need and scout out the route with the drones, then use their beacons to home in on the stuff in quick in and out raids.

Assuming those damn stalkers don't sneak in and steal your drone(s) while you're following it's beacon marker.

 

[Mengy]

What I really like about Subnautica is that it offers me different gameplay options to "finetune" my enjoyment. Of course I started out with the stock game settings but hunting for food and keeping stock of water soon became annoying as hell so I m going with the game version that takes both these factors off my to-worry list and I cant really say that I miss it. It has given me more freedom and time, reduces pressure and enables me to enjoy the game more. I dont think I will activate food+water again.

I'm the opposite, as I really love the survival aspect to the game. Needing to eat and drink gives me reasons to build bases and outfit them, because I need farms and ways to create water.


I'm glad they provided options though for players to choose how they want to play. They made so many great design decisions with Subnautica, it really is a master class example of excellent game design.

 

[Stigbob]

Assuming those damn stalkers don't sneak in and steal your drone(s) while you're following it's beacon marker.

Their stash sometimes has teeth in it. You need some medkits and a distraction piece of scrap metal.

 

[Siobhan]

Their stash sometimes has teeth in it. You need some medkits and a distraction piece of scrap metal.

Oh I know, but it isn't much help when you were using said drone as a homing beacon and an overgrown anchovie decides it makes a good pillow.

 

[Stigbob]

Oh I know, but it isn't much help when you were using said drone as a homing beacon and an overgrown anchovie decides it makes a good pillow.

Yeah they can be a bit overly keen, if they overdo it I punch them to death with the prawn. Which is my go to solution for most tricky conundrums in subnautica.

 

[Siobhan]

Yeah they can be a bit overly keen, if they overdo it I punch them to death with the prawn. Which is my go to solution for most tricky conundrums in subnautica.

Absolutely...
Um for the record, there are a couple of commanders doing blind livestreams of subnautica, and they might be reading the thread... We should probably keep the "how we do this" talk to a minimum to avoid spoilers.
Yeah I know, they shouldn't be following the thread if they don't want spoilers, but... well, you know.

 

[Stigbob]

Absolutely...
Um for the record, there are a couple of commanders doing blind livestreams of subnautica, and they might be reading the thread... We should probably keep the "how we do this" talk to a minimum to avoid spoilers.
Yeah I know, they shouldn't be following the thread if they don't want spoilers, but... well, you know.

That sounds like a tricky conundrum PUNCHING MODE ACTIVATED !.

Sorry force of habit, I mean that you are right.

 

[orfeboy]

There are many things in Subnautica that Elite could learn from. They are different games and built on different foundations. But, if you get down to the grind vs reward and more importantly, actual sense of purpose. Subnautica beats Elite hands down. In this game the grind rewards are there to help advance the story and move you closer toward your purpose. The grind itself is not the actual purpose. This is where Elite fails. There is no purpose other than upgrading your ship and just like the 1984 original, once you have done this there is nothing else to do. Elite Dangerous had huge potential with the BGS but nothing serious has been done in this area to provide purpose. In Subnautica the tools and vehicles are tools to help you play the game. In Elite they are the game.

Elite is an amazing achievement, but could be made so much better in the future if they developed the BGS and provided the evolving changes with the star systems that could be improved and allowed wane based on player interaction. To provide a reason for players to rally together to support systems and watch their impact on the game world with their own eyes. The ships should be tools and not the game itself. Just my opinion.

 

[NeilF]

There are many things in Subnautica that Elite could learn from. They are different games and built on different foundations. But, if you get down to the grind vs reward and more importantly, actual sense of purpose. Subnautica beats Elite hands down. In this game the grind rewards are there to help advance the story and move you closer toward your purpose. The grind itself is not the actual purpose. This is where Elite fails. There is no purpose other than upgrading your ship and just like the 1984 original, once you have done this there is nothing else to do. Elite Dangerous had huge potential with the BGS but nothing serious has been done in this area to provide purpose. In Subnautica the tools and vehicles are tools to help you play the game. In Elite they are the game.

Elite is an amazing achievement, but could be made so much better in the future if they developed the BGS and provided the evolving changes with the star systems that could be improved and allowed wane based on player interaction. To provide a reason for players to rally together to support systems and watch their impact on the game world with their own eyes. The ships should be tools and not the game itself. Just my opinion.

Agreed... Ttotally!

When so much effort is put into upgrade the ships, rather than giving more depth and gameplay for you to do with those ships? Hmmm...

ED feels like its sat on its hands for too much of the past 4yrs. Maybe the new mission packs (rumoured) will give some more depth/purpose (but I doubt it)...


ps: I think I'll get Subnautica next good deal for it. Been waiting for Oculus Touch support to be offered. But I just don't think it's going to come!