Modes [Suggestion] How to incentivise open play and make it relevant

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It is not if you include combat to the equation.

For example if 5 players are doing their actions in solo mode from 18h to 22h. The faction have to play those ours doing the same plus extra hours if they want to rise their influence up a little.
If they do it in open mode, the attacked players just need to play from 18h to 22h, stoping their actions while only one player do missions.

Now think about PP too.
Do you get it now?

And I don't talk about the inmersive face of the situation.

I totally disagree. I also think you might be attempting to be deliberately disingenuous. Maybe not, but do I suspect it.

Let me explain

Combat, as a defence, would *absolutely be required* from 1800-2200 UTC, and be at the mercy of P2P networking (plus fundamentally being on the same platform).

However, BGS play need not be completed strictly within those hours. It can be achieved at *any time*, not strictly during 1800-2200 UTC. It can also be pursued in *any mode*, and on *any platform*.

I've been considering purchasing a PS4 partly to experience ED in a big screen.

If these proposed changes were made - If I wanted to pursue BGS manipulation at a player faction, then I *would* absolutely choose to be platform agile and do so on the platform where PvP combat was not present at that time.

You know, just to force the player faction to then pursue BGS activity in order to DEFEND. After all, that is what the PvP combat fraternity want to *foist* onto others. Play as you don't want...

Do you understand yet?
 
I totally disagree. I also think you might be attempting to be deliberately disingenuous. Maybe not, but do I suspect it.

However, BGS play need not be completed strictly within those hours. It can be achieved at *any time*, not strictly during 1800-2200 UTC. It can also be pursued in *any mode*, and on *any platform*.
I didn't choose those hours randomly. Those are the hours of most affluence of players in the European time.

Anyway. What you say is not real. It is not the same stopping an action, than countering an action.
Just think a little and you will see that countering an action requiers more work and time than stopping the same action. The only difference is that for one you need to be connected in the same time than second one. Plus that I can choose 2 ways of action while in the other situation you are doom to do the same, like it or not.

But let's see what's going on in PP or a CG, where there are players doing actions 24h in the day...
"Do you understand yet?"
 
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Nonsense.

PowerPlay is very tied to Combat.

Really, what game has something called PowerPlay that is tied to combat? Because this one aint :p

Now, if you kill an NPC, 30 Merits. If you kill an enemy power CMDR, ZERO Merits?! (used to be 1 Merit) Where's the logic?

See above.

shouldn't opposite powers be fully allowed to DIRECTLY attack/defend against others?

Last I checked, you could fly about in Open attacking other powers quite freely.
 
I was nothing but criticized and crucified by this community....they shut down anyone's views that oppose them....

I can take these same arguments to reddit however. Where more people engage in this conversation. And where most of the population of this community reside. It sure aint here. But this is also where Fdev pulls most its feedback. So here I am.

I knew I was going to be met with hostility because my views are different....

I didnt come to war with an empty gun....

I tried to fight for a game I love and stand up against some of the people around here....

Changes need to be made....

You cant silence us all....

Keepin' it realz!

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"Today it ends. Today is the beginning of a new tomorrow!"

Gen. Kendall Jenner
Commander of Pepsi Troops, Air Space Cerebral
Twitter advocate and supporter of Freedom2Post
 
90's is the hot chick offering up the pepsi and the stoic patrolman is the Solo/Private community.

So you're saying 90's is Kendal Jenner!?

A talent-less hack, attention seeking nobody, with nothing new or interesting to say but will do and say anything to grab the spotlight - including doing a stupid Ad campaign Pepsi had to apologise over!
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...protest-video-cancelled-removed-a7668986.html

I'd say it's a tad mean to compare 90's to her, But you know PvP'ers better than I do.
So if you say 90's is Kendal, then I'll take your word on the matter.
 
What's wrong with wanting player-targets? It's 1000x more interesting than fighting NPC's, wanting the PvP side of this game to have a purpose is not a bad thing.

I presume you don't want player "targets" though. Targets are boring. They just sit there getting shot. I presume you want players who can and will fight back, give you a challenge. Not players who are even less of a challenge than an NPC.

And PvP might be interesting for you, but its not interesting for others.

Sure, give the PvP side a purpose isn't a bad thing, if FD can do it, but not at the cost of those who don't want it. You need to look for solutions which will result in PvP having meaning by itself.
 
Believe me when I tell you that I really feel you. But I feel the other side too.

That's why I say that solo and private modes should NOT dissapear. Even I think that proggress should be kept in all the modes equaly (that is reputation, money, ships bought, systems explored...) so players can fly in open mode when they were really prepared for it.

But playing a multiplayer war (yeah: war) from solo mode is out of logic (and is not funny for thousand of players too)

I think that people like you can't see other faces of the cube. For example, some moths ago I was in one of the 10 first factions that moved to the second bubble. You have NO IDEA about all the work behind that, all the diplomacy, dialogue.... all the ideas that we could play but were not availables because of the hidden players.
For example, all factionsl had a group of players focused on security in every system (there was the Colonia Militia, where I was for a time too).

Now I ask you: what for?
We soon understood the answer: for nothing. So... what can I do in Colonia? Nothing again: it is a f**ing desert. All the game around CEI is played in a discord server.

I can tell you that out there, the 90% of players factions want to "defend the galaxy". There are other factions of players with awesome ideas that have died because of the hidden players.
For example: a group of spectacles with ships, a faction of medics who wanted to block systems in outbreak by talking all the people who go into it while they were working on erradicate the disease. Hell... even a Circus!!!!

There are hundred and hundred of factions that fight against criminals for every griefer in game and with funny and great ideas for all the players fun.
What do you do? you focus only in 4 griefers (and most of them are not real griefers) and hide in private groups.

I was flying only in open mode the last year. I was even in Mobius before for a while and in Mobius I was killed 9 times in a month while in open I was killed none in a whole year (and sometimes they tried too)
You are running away from the people who can really help you and you are denying them the oportunity to do it too by creating a logical and more real (and funny) enviroment for all of us (even you).

I know the song "People always kill me", but what really happens is that they are killed once or twice and then they move to solo mode FOREVER.

In open mode, there are more kind people than annoying people. Even pirats offer me a nice situation from time to time.(thank you to all players that make me laugh so often by the way :D)
But, do you prefer to play solo in the galaxy? Ok, up to you. But, please, do it without affecting other players with your actions in the same way you hide in solo mode to not be affected by theirs.

Now let's see some personal experiences about BGS and PP.

When I was in a faction hardly focused on BGS, all players who came to our systems in open (only a few) found a player who play their role, ask them about what were they doing in the system and asked them for delivering the commodities where we needed it.
100% of them did it.
Later we had a group of players who always came to our systems for minning. One day we even offered them scort for going to a dangerous RES. We were killing pirats where they were minning.

From my experience, only those groups of players with malicious intentions against us came to our systems from private groups by bombing stations with UA's, undermining our influence, creating civil unrest by killing civile npc's... etc.
All and everyone of them.
I even once saw a group of players who came to Mobius looking for help to attack a faction of enemy players saying they were a bunch of griefers (I later found out that it was a lie)

I can tell you hundreds of really great stories before all this "open is full of griefers" fever started though, all of it in open mode. While all the frustrating and annoying situations allways came from hidden players.

About PP... what is PP really now? Trading papers.
Is it a mechanic issue? No, it isn't. It is that players hide in solo mode again when they go in enemy systems.
So, right now, PP is only "played" to farm modules by trading tons and tons of... papers while thousand of players who are genuily interested on playing this mechanic are doomed to be the "kings of paper traders", "fighting" against millions of ghosts who only want the primactic shields.

I could continue but I think this post is long enough.

Please stop condemn the open mode, stop condemn all combat player (most of them wanna help others), stop thinking that BGS players are always PvE players in the same way that all combat players are PvP players. And stop thinking that all those who don't fit weapons in their ships are better people than those who wanna play all the aspects of this game because, from my experience mainly in Mobius, they are usually much more manipulative and selfish people than those who just enter in a system in open mode and shoot a player.

Think about it.

PS: underlined parts are a good summary of what I intend to express in this post.

Excellent post!
 
Excellent post!

Not really, as it didn't address why someone would buy a product with an advertised feature - then complain about that feature.

I've never bought anything I didn't think I'd like and if something wasn't what I thought it was then I left it. I didn't complain that I'd made a bad choice, I just accept when I do and move on.
I mean if Solo had been added after release I'd get it and I'd agree - but it wasn't, it was there, from the start, long before the game went on to general release.
Kickstarter Info said:
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*

It was part of the Kickstarter pledge, for all to see.

You may want to also note, the updated info on the website reads;

https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/ said:
As you play, your own actions, experience and story influence a unique connected gaming experience and evolving narrative. Governments fall, battles are lost and won, and humanity's frontier is reshaped, all by the actions of you and your fellow players.

No where is it marked up "Open only" or "Restrictions apply", nothing like that at all.

Same page also states "Fly alone or with friends" - doesn't say Fly with sovapid whether I like it or not, nor Fly with random people I may or may not like.
 

The one from Michael is on The Wall of Information.
The ones from Sandro have also been dealt with once he realised that giving a boost to open was pointless, as we can just tweak our networks and get the boost without having to play with anyone from open.
 
The one from Michael is on The Wall of Information.
The ones from Sandro have also been dealt with once he realised that giving a boost to open was pointless, as we can just tweak our networks and get the boost without having to play with anyone from open.

You mean dealt with him by showing everyone the wall of text. Speaking for people like me saying that balancing open play is NOT pointless.

Glad you dealt with him.

Look, how long are you guys going to keep this up? Because its the same people every time. Continuously trying to diffuse and shut down any argument for change with things said in the past.

Well new things have been added since then. New playstyles have emerged as more people get time in this game. And you dont speak for everyone.

As a matter of fact, there are so many changes being spoke about right now.

Combat logging timers, Weapons and synth balanced around player interaction. Shield booster are still being looked at. There is a lot that goes on in this.

And they have to find a good mix of PVE and PVP balancing. Just like World Of Warcraft has done, or Guild Wars 2.

Both have PVE aspects built into their PVP fights. Second tier NPC's are a good example of this when you take a tower in guild wars 2, You have to knock down the gates. Kill the NPC and hold the territory to cap it.

Well guess what. Elite has to balance the game around EVERYONE that plays it. Not just open, not just solo and private. And while all modes hold importance. 1 mode in particular is more dynamic than all the rest. And is also the most played game mode.

So a boost of open in pointless? Please. And as far as the tweeks to networks. In any other multiplayer game, you get banned for this. And they have automatic software than picks this up. Battle Eye and Punkbuster for Battlefield 2 back in the day was able to accomplish this. This is old news.

Stop playing straw man giving any excuse you guys can in the book.

There are lots of people speaking up about this stuff. And have been for a VERY VERY long time. But you and the same others bombard these threads, its like ya'll actively look for them and shut them down. But its always the same group of people doing it. Very small at that.

While there are 100's if not 1000's speaking up about this in other places than here. And lots of people holding off and waiting to come back hoping these changes are made.

But what do I know. Right?
 
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You mean dealt with him by showing everyone the wall of text. Speaking for people like me saying that balancing open play is NOT pointless.

Glad you dealt with him.

Look, how long are you guys going to keep this up? Because its the same people every time. Continuously trying to diffuse and shut down any argument for change with things said in the past.

Well new things have been added since then. New playstyles have emerged as more people get time in this game. And you dont speak for everyone.

As a matter of fact, there are so many changes being spoke about right now.

Combat logging timers, Weapons and synth balanced around player interaction. Shield booster are still being looked at. There is a lot that goes on in this.

And they have to find a good mix of PVE and PVP balancing. Just like World Of Warcraft has done, or Guild Wars 2.

Both have PVE aspects built into their PVP fights. Second tier NPC's are a good example of this when you take a tower in guild wars 2, You have to knock down the gates. Kill the NPC and hold the territory to cap it.

Well guess what. Elite has to balance the game around EVERYONE that plays it. Not just open, not just solo and private. And while all modes hold importance. 1 mode in particular is more dynamic than all the rest. And is also the most played game mode.

So a boost of open in pointless? Please. And as far as the tweeks to networks. In any other multiplayer game, you get banned for this. And they have automatic software than picks this up. Battle Eye and Punkbuster for Battlefield 2 back in the day was able to accomplish this. This is old news.

Stop playing straw man giving any excuse you guys can in the book.

There are lots of people speaking up about this stuff. And have been for a VERY VERY long time. But you and the same others bombard these threads, its like ya'll actively look for them and shut them down. But its always the same group of people doing it. Very small at that.

While there are 100's if not 1000's speaking up about this in other places than here. And lots of people holding off and waiting to come back hoping these changes will be made.

But what do I know. Right?

What's in it for me, try to sell me your idea.
 
Ill answer your question. With a question of my own.

Sell me on exploring. Whats in it for me? Jump scan jump scan?

I can opt out of it. Just like you can.

You dont have to buy it. But I and many others will.

How many things do you not buy in a groceries store every day? I bet you have a favorite type of pie. Lets stop making X pie. Because you have a wall of text showing how bad these other pies are. From now on EVERYONE EATS Y PIE!
 
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You mean dealt with him by showing everyone the wall of text. Speaking for people like me saying that balancing open play is NOT pointless.

Glad you dealt with him.

Look, how long are you guys going to keep this up? Because its the same people every time. Continuously trying to diffuse and shut down any argument for change with things said in the past.

Well new things have been added since then. New playstyles have emerged as more people get time in this game. And you dont speak for everyone.

As a matter of fact, there are so many changes being spoke about right now.

Combat logging timers, Weapons and synth balanced around player interaction. Shield booster are still being looked at. There is a lot that goes on in this.

And they have to find a good mix of PVE and PVP balancing. Just like World Of Warcraft has done, or Guild Wars 2.

Both have PVE aspects built into their PVP fights. Second tier NPC's are a good example of this when you take a tower in guild wars 2, You have to knock down the gates. Kill the NPC and hold the territory to cap it.

Well guess what. Elite has to balance the game around EVERYONE that plays it. Not just open, not just solo and private. And while all modes hold importance. 1 mode in particular is more dynamic than all the rest. And is also the most played game mode.

So a boost of open in pointless? Please. And as far as the tweeks to networks. In any other multiplayer game, you get banned for this. And they have automatic software than picks this up. Battle Eye and Punkbuster for Battlefield 2 back in the day was able to accomplish this. This is old news.

Stop playing straw man giving any excuse you guys can in the book.

There are lots of people speaking up about this stuff. And have been for a VERY VERY long time. But you and the same others bombard these threads, its like ya'll actively look for them and shut them down. But its always the same group of people doing it. Very small at that.

While there are 100's if not 1000's speaking up about this in other places than here. And lots of people holding off and waiting to come back hoping these changes will be made.

But what do I know. Right?

Battlefield 2 was a dedicated server and not p2p if I remember correctly, any game with a dedicated server can be managed and it easier to detect some types of network cheats but they cost alot of money. P2P is another issue and detecting and proving it is a exploit with the router\firewall changes mentioned here would be boardering on impossible.
 
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Changes have to be made if the game wants to stay relevant. I'll repeat an argument I've posted recently. Almost every person who would buy ED for its Exploration and other features from the original Elite games has already done so. From here on ED has to cater to the Multi-player consumer crowd more and more.

It's a MMO, even if it's more than that. Human interaction, for the best or for the worst, is part of it. Can't hope to expand or retain playerbase with only the mesmerizing yet grows-old-fast Stellar Forge, or the beginner-level PvE developing, Mission system, etc.
 
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