Modes [Suggestion] How to incentivise open play and make it relevant

[Jockey79]

You mean dealt with him by showing everyone the wall of text. Speaking for people like me saying that balancing open play is NOT pointless.

Glad you dealt with him.

I didn't do a thing and I have no idea if he has even looked at The Wall of Information.
I just watched as his post got mobbed by people explaining how Peer to Peer works and that he should know this being Lead Designer.

Look, how long are you guys going to keep this up? Because its the same people every time. Continuously trying to diffuse and shut down any argument for change with things said in the past.

How long? easy, as long as it takes for it to sink in.
We paid for a very specific game and we expect to keep it.

So far all the core features have been left and new stuff that was added, was done in a way it integrated with those core features.

New playstyles have emerged as more people get time in this game.

Not really. Only so many ways you can gank newbies.

And you dont speak for everyone.

Unlike you, I've never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself.

As a matter of fact, there are so many changes being spoke about right now.

Yup, all in line with the current core features.

Combat logging timers, Weapons and synth balanced around player interaction. Shield booster are still being looked at. There is a lot that goes on in this.

CL Timers cannot work on Peer to Peer, not without a game server to keep your ship online even if you go offline.
What they said they will look at is the Karma system to track how and when people go offline, to track CL more and punish offenders.

Weapons / gear balance is always under review and has nothing to do with the mode system.
PvP'ers a great for helping balance gear and guns - but the mode system isn't remotely connected to that process.

And they have to find a good mix of PVE and PVP balancing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tGV7VVlhE

Just like World Of Warcraft has done, or Guild Wars 2.

I cannot speak for GW2 as I don't play it, but using WOW was a bad move.
Due to WOW having separate PvP / PvE servers - so it shows you know nothing about what you're talking about.

Well guess what. Elite has to balance the game around EVERYONE that plays it. Not just open, not just solo and private. And while all modes hold importance. 1 mode in particular is more dynamic than all the rest. And is also the most played game mode.

You cannot balance something for "everyone" to be happy. That isn't possible. So Frontier will balance and tweak according to whom they consider to be the majority.
You also have no idea what is the most played game mode, so trying to make out Open is more important - while moaning it needs improving undermines your own arguments.

So a boost of open in pointless? Please.

Clearly you've decided to ignore being told for over a year how we can play open, get any boost and still not have to play with you.
Yes, having the Devs waste time doing something that we can ignore is indeed pointless.

And as far as the tweeks to networks. In any other multiplayer game, you get banned for this. And they have automatic software than picks this up. Battle Eye and Punkbuster for Battlefield 2 back in the day was able to accomplish this. This is old news.

Those games use server / client, so they can monitor connections. Frontier cannot force a Peer to Peer connection to anyone's PC.
We have to allow it and Frontier cannot say a thing over it.

Stop playing straw man giving any excuse you guys can in the book.

Who needs a straw man when you just make stuff up as you go along.

There are lots of people speaking up about this stuff. And have been for a VERY VERY long time.

Proving my above point for me, how nice.

In 3 years there has been less than 100 people on the forums moaning about the mode switching (Go check the names and post counts for the SOG threads).
This is literally a provable fact that more people defend the mode system than attack it - yet you're making ridiculous claims you've pulled out of thin air.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=90583
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=145309
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=169599
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=216887

Read the names, scan the posts. Hardly anyone is complaining about the modes system - only griefers looking for more cannon fodder.

But you and the same others bombard these threads, its like ya'll actively look for them and shut them down. But its always the same group of people doing it. Very small at that.

See above.
More folks defending the games core features than attacking it.

While there are 100's if not 1000's speaking up about this in other places than here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/
https://www.facebook.com/EliteDangerousOfficial/

Care to show me ?
Because yet again you've made a claim with no proof.

(And no, SDC forums don't count)

And lots of people holding off and waiting to come back hoping these changes will be made.

Lots?

Of whom?

I posted proof of who posts here with their names and posts above, yet you refer to people who don't seem to exist.

But what do I know. Right?

See above

 

[EvE4evah]

Battlefield 2 was a dedicated server and not p2p if I remember correctly, any game with a dedicated server can be managed and it easier to detect some types of network cheats but they cost alot of money. P2P is another issue and detecting and proving it is a exploit with the router\firewall changes mentioned here would be boardering on impossible.

Yep but where do you think those Chinese Dollars are going (besides Planet Coaster and dinos)? New server structure is needed. Because the current P2P is bad for almost everyone, be it PG or Open. Only the Solo people don't care about it.

 

[EvE4evah]

Imagine if Americo Vesputio in the 1490s, people telling him "it's too dangerous and impossible", didn't cross the Atlantic. Oh wait I wouldn't be even born right now…

 

[Stigbob]

Imagine if Americo Vesputio in the 1490s, people telling him "it's too dangerous and impossible", didn't cross the Atlantic. Oh wait I wouldn't be even born right now…

What if they told him don't go there it's full of griefers ?.

 

[kinglemo2000]

Yep but where do you think those Chinese Dollars are going (besides Planet Coaster and dinos)? New server structure is needed. Because the current P2P is bad for almost everyone, be it PG or Open. Only the Solo people don't care about it.

Thing is P2P with a matchmaking server is the way the games industry is going in general, several much larger studio's than FD are taking this route

 

[EvE4evah]

What if they told him don't go there it's full of griefers ?.

But they did, buddy. If you check 1300-1600 maps of the Oceans, you'll see there are lots of demons drawn about them. It was common knowledge that the sea was full of Hydras and Sirens and Leviathans, and all kinds of griefers. Oh and the Earth was still flat, so there was supposed to be an Abyss by the sea's end.

Common knowledge. Just like in ED playerbase

Thing is P2P with a matchmaking server is the way the games industry is going in general, several much larger studio's than FD are taking this route

Yeah? I guess they've improved the P2P coding then, since most MMOs have efficient Combat Log Off Timers. No amount of Pulling the plug or App killing will do any good. Overwatch, BF, EvE, LoL, just from the top of my head…

 

[Jockey79]

Changes have to be made if the game wants to stay relevant.

Games always grow, but only one I've ever played changed it's core features and it died because of it.

Star Wars Galaxies "NGE" - go look it up.

I'll repeat an argument I've posted recently. Almost every person who would buy ED for its Exploration and other features from the original Elite games has already done so.

Prove it.

From here on ED has to cater to the Multi-player consumer crowd more and more.

ED has to cater to its core player base that spend money in the vanity store.
Not some ADHD person jumping from game to game for pew pew.

It's a MMO, even if it's more than that. Human interaction, for the best or for the worst, is part of it.

MMO - yup, it is. Know what that actually means?

Also, Solo Mode tends to defeat your last point there.

Can't hope to expand or retain playerbase with only the mesmerizing yet grows-old-fast Stellar Forge, or the beginner-level PvE developing, Mission system, etc.

Nope, new content will be added. Built so Solo / PG and Open on PC & Mac, XBox One and PS/4 can all play it.

Yep, cheaters gonna cheat. Up to FDev to deal with that as well.

Turning off a security flaw in my router is not cheating.
Not my fault Frontier built the game to rely on on that flaw for multiplayer.
Heck, even PC World advise turning off uPnP (Google it).

Sorry, but a games company cannot dictate how we set up our home networks or demand we leave a security flaw open.
The Devs need to build a better game, that has a decent safe networking solution that they can monitor and control.

 

[kinglemo2000]

Yep, cheaters gonna cheat. Up to FDev to deal with that as well.

using your firewall to block your IP v using the game blocking feature = same result you don't see each other

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

[QUOTE Buncha snip[/QUOTE]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ted_content_which_is_why_rewards_are/dfjqkl0/

This comment I made alone. Not only had people agreeing with it. But has more participation than any of these forum posts around here. This is not the only place they are getting feed back. They see everyone else. They know exactly what I am talking about.

Keep trying to diffuse though. You've only proven the points I've made.

You know what, I've said my piece. And I know frontier and others know about it and have seen it. But to think they would'nt add changes just because this small corner of the internet doesnt want to see it. Is absurd. All this talk about blocking in open and fixing your modems show what you guys are all about. Not only have you done it in the game. But you guys have managed to successfully do it on the forums.

So thank you all for your time.

 

[Jockey79]

Yep but where do you think those Chinese Dollars are going (besides Planet Coaster and dinos)? New server structure is needed. Because the current P2P is bad for almost everyone, be it PG or Open. Only the Solo people don't care about it.

Not sure, but I think a proper server would also benefit Solo as well. It should be a more stable connection having a server to keep and eye on the information coming and going.
But yes, P2P is a major downside to ED.

Perhaps in Elite: Dangerous 2 we'll get server / client

Overwatch, BF, EvE, LoL, just from the top of my head…

None of those are Peer to Peer.
So that kind of backs up the need for us to move to that to deal with CL'ers.

 

[Stigbob]

But they did, buddy. If you check 1300-1600 maps of the Oceans, you'll see there are lots of demons drawn about them. It was common knowledge that the sea was full of Hydras and Sirens and Leviathans, and all kinds of griefers. Oh and the Earth was still flat, so there was supposed to be an Abyss by the sea's end.

Common knowledge. Just like in ED playerbase

The bright orange Kremlin stooge with evil cyborg hair and his finger on the button is scarier.

 

[kinglemo2000]

But they did, buddy. If you check 1300-1600 maps of the Oceans, you'll see there are lots of demons drawn about them. It was common knowledge that the sea was full of Hydras and Sirens and Leviathans, and all kinds of griefers. Oh and the Earth was still flat, so there was supposed to be an Abyss by the sea's end.

Common knowledge. Just like in ED playerbase



Yeah? I guess they've improved the P2P coding then, since most MMOs have efficient Combat Log Off Timers. No amount of Pulling the plug or App killing will do any good. Overwatch, BF, EvE, LoL, just from the top of my head…

pulling the plug or app killing is alot different to setting rules to block certain IP addresses in a firewall the game won't be detecting any disconnections, the only failure shown would be the local PC's clients failing to resolve a p2p connection

 

[sovapid]

Turning off a security flaw in my router is not cheating.
Not my fault Frontier built the game to rely on on that flaw for multiplayer.
Heck, even PC World advise turning off uPnP (Google it).

Maybe elite isnt the game for you then

At least the multiplayer portion.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Maybe elite isnt the game for you then

At least the multiplayer portion.

You just need to git gud at dominating multiplayer

"port time limit reached. Please insert 1 bitcoin to reopen port. Non-payment assures permanent lulzbanning"

 

[EvE4evah]

Games always grow, but only one I've ever played changed it's core features and it died because of it.

Star Wars Galaxies "NGE" - go look it up.



Prove it.



ED has to cater to its core player base that spend money in the vanity store.
Not some ADHD person jumping from game to game for pew pew.



MMO - yup, it is. Know what that actually means?

Also, Solo Mode tends to defeat your last point there.



Nope, new content will be added. Built so Solo / PG and Open on PC & Mac, XBox One and PS/4 can all play it.



Turning off a security flaw in my router is not cheating.
Not my fault Frontier built the game to rely on on that flaw for multiplayer.
Heck, even PC World advise turning off uPnP (Google it).

Sorry, but a games company cannot dictate how we set up our home networks or demand we leave a security flaw open.
The Devs need to build a better game, that has a decent safe networking solution that they can monitor and control.

It seems to me that you're desperately arguing just for the sake of arguing, without adding, Jockey.

Forgive my formatting, I'm at an iPhone.

1. Multi-player games always tweak, add and remove stuff all the time, respecting their players. Huge changes have already been mentioned in this thread, such as adding and deleting servers, and connecting PvE to PvP in whacky ways

2. I don't need to prove an opinion, just like nobody is asking you to prove your PoV.

3. Almost everybody will eventually spend money with Cosmetics, I've spent 200+ dollars in four months already. It doesn't make the Backstarters special. Also, the same backstarters are a Tiny Portion of the current playerbase and will become even tinier as the game expands, if expands. Many of which are already complaining loudly about the slow pace of implantation of features and fixes. The Backstarters are probably the main reason why FD won't make a much needed wild turn, you're right in that regard.

BTW you do know that a huge portion of MMO players are hardcore, addicted players who don't have "ADHD and hop from game to game", right?

4. Solo doesn't defeat any purpose of mine, it just has to keep a separate BGS since the Solo player can't care about what others are doing and currently (while in Solo) obviously doesn't want interaction so why would he be able to manipulate BGS for/against everyone is mind boggling.

5. Many MMOs are multiplatform, without nerfing PvP and having to resort to unreliable indirect PvP (read BGS). There are a few ways about it, game developing is a decades old industry.


That's it…

Edit: typo

 

[Jockey79]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ted_content_which_is_why_rewards_are/dfjqkl0/

This comment I made alone. Not only had people agreeing with it. But has more participation than any of these forum posts around here.

LMAO!

Seriously, please, stop.
I'm going to pee myself.



273 Vs over 30,000 posts.

Damn you've made my night.

 

[EvE4evah]

Not sure, but I think a proper server would also benefit Solo as well. It should be a more stable connection having a server to keep and eye on the information coming and going.
But yes, P2P is a major downside to ED.

Perhaps in Elite: Dangerous 2 we'll get server / client



None of those are Peer to Peer.
So that kind of backs up the need for us to move to that to deal with CL'ers.

Agreed and agreed, buddy.

 

[Asp Explorer]

4. Solo doesn't defeat any purpose of mine, it just has to keep a separate BGS since the Solo player can't care about what others are doing and currently (while in Solo) obviously doesn't want interaction so why would he be able to manipulate BGS for/against everyone is mind boggling.

There simply cannot be such a thing as a separate BGS for modes, it's utterly nonsensical. Why do so many pew-pews fail to comprehend such elementary infrastructure concepts? I'm not having a bash at you personally, but it's a trait repeated, and repeated, and repeated ad nauseum by those only wishing to blow stuff up and demand MOAR targets.

Now, I'm all for Powerplay interactions having an effect and affecting states purely in Open.

 

[sovapid]

4. Solo doesn't defeat any purpose of mine, it just has to keep a separate BGS since the Solo player can't care about what others are doing and currently (while in Solo) obviously doesn't want interaction so why would he be able to manipulate BGS for/against everyone is mind boggling.

Solo having its own BGS makes the mess even worse. I log into open and the station I'm in is controlled by my faction. I log into solo and it is controlled by a different faction.

Just won't work, that is already baked into the game I don't see a logical way to change it.

I'd be happy to giving a bonus to working in open like suggested in the original post.

Or a whole new mechanic. We can throw out Power Play and replace it with something that is open only.

 

[Jockey79]

It seems to me that you're desperately arguing just for the sake of arguing, without adding, Jockey.

I'm answering outlandish demands from PvP'ers with actual quotes and facts. On a topic that has been covered for a long time.
Want me to stop posting the same old stuff, then stop making the same old demands.

Forgive my formatting, I'm at an iPhone.

Formatting is fine, but iPhone - please, you're smarter than that. Android all the way

1. Multi-player games always tweak, add and remove stuff all the time, respecting their players. Huge changes have already been mentioned in this thread, such as adding and deleting servers, and connecting PvE to PvP in whacky ways
Tweaking does not mean removing core features or restricting content / rewards. Tweaks are small changes to correct a problem
2. I don't need to prove an opinion, just like nobody is asking you to prove your PoV.
You state "Almost everyone would buy...." - you didn't state an opinion, you stated a fact. I'd like to see where you got that fact from, as I'm part of the "everyone" group and I wasn't asked
3. Almost everybody will eventually spend money with Cosmetics, I've spent 200+ dollars in four months already. It doesn't make the Backstarters special. Also, the same bsckstarters are a Tiny Portion of the current playerbase and will become even tinier as the game expands, if expands. Many of which are already complaining loudly about the slow pace of implantation of features and fixes. The Bsckstarters are probably the main reason why FD won't make a much needed wild turn, you're right in that regard.

BTW you do know that a huge portion of MMO players are hardcore, addicted players who don't have "ADHD and hop from game to game", right?
Again with the "Almost everyone" - some facts and figures for this information would be nice
4. Solo doesn't defeat any purpose of mine, it just has to keep a separate BGS since the Solo player can't care about what others are doing and currently (while in Solo) obviously doesn't want interaction so why would he be able to manipulate BGS for/against everyone is mind boggling.
Who said Solo players don't care about the BGS? Some people play Solo due to disabilities, but they care about the BGS. Please don't start making stuff up, got enough with one person doing that atm.
5. Many MMOs are multiplatform, without nerfing PvP and having to resort to unreliable indirect PvP (read BGS). There are a few ways about it, game developing is a decades old industry.
​And Frontier made it clear, they didn't want "decades old" ideas, they wanted something new.

That's it…

Answered these points in the quote in green