Modes [Suggestion] How to incentivise open play and make it relevant

[EvE4evah]

There simply cannot be such a thing as a separate BGS for modes, it's utterly nonsensical. Why do so many pew-pews fail to comprehend such elementary infrastructure concepts? I'm not having a bash at you personally, but it's a trait repeated, and repeated, and repeated ad nauseum by those only wishing to blow stuff up and demand MOAR targets.

Now, I'm all for Powerplay interactions having an effect and affecting states purely in Open.

Because BGS permeates every aspect of the game from selling Exploration data at a random station to farming vouchers at a RES, everything affects the BGS balance, so while PvP doesn't do anything against PvE in any of the 3 modes, PvE pretty much affects PvP groups trying to reach a goal.

So much for role playing system control and expansion wars and such.

It's so obvious I also don't know why I have to keep repeating myself, still I don't get salty about it.

When your have an invincible and invisible enemy, which you have to boringly PvE or Mission run against, it's just bad game design.

Solo having its own BGS makes the mess even worse. I log into open and the station I'm in is controlled by my faction. I log into solo and it is controlled by a different faction.

Just won't work, that is already baked into the game I don't see a logical way to change it.

I'd be happy to giving a bonus to working in open like suggested in the original post.

Or a whole new mechanic. We can throw out Power Play and replace it with something that is open only.

If said changes were applied, Sova, why would you ever need to stealth log in Solo mode ever?

 

[Zieman]

When your have an invincible and invisible enemy, which you have to boringly PvE or Mission run against, it's just bad game design.

Timezones. Peer to peer. PC. Mac. Xbox 1. PS 4.
<shrug>

 

[EvE4evah]

Timezones. Peer to peer. PC. Mac. Xbox 1. PS 4.
<shrug>

Timezones and different platforms are current difficulties of almost any current MMO, hardly an effective deterrent.

I'm answering outlandish demands from PvP'ers with actual quotes and facts. On a topic that has been covered for a long time.
Want me to stop posting the same old stuff, then stop making the same old demands.



Formatting is fine, but iPhone - please, you're smarter than that. Android all the way



Answered these points in the quote in green

As I said, opinions.

FD won't likely disclose its sales statistics

 

[Jockey79]

....

When your have an invincible and invisible enemy, which you have to boringly PvE or Mission run against, it's just bad game design.

....

I'll repeat myself...

[video=youtube;n7tGV7VVlhE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tGV7VVlhE[/video]

"I don't see it as a PvP game" - Braben, CEO Frontier.

Until you change his mind, you're "chasing your tail" (so to speak).

 

[sovapid]

If said changes were applied, Sova, why would you ever need to stealth log in Solo mode ever?

Few reasons I can think of off the top of my head, but more dealing with Private Groups

* To play with friends who, for whatever their reasons are, don't want to play in Open.

*Right now I have a broken leg, broke it two weeks ago, surgery one week ago. I am sooooo bored of laying on the couch I am playing in Private right now because I am frequently stopping because I am uncomfortable. Even if I wasn't getting the open bonus, I'd still play.


Or something like Obsidian Orbital. If i remember right, it was built because of community goal. Having it exist in Solo/PG, but not in Open would just be too much of a disconnect for me.

 

[Asp Explorer]

So much for role playing system control and expansion wars and such.

Players can role-play whatever they want. FD still overrides that with their BGS adjustments. Maybe, in the coming update, players may have more direct agency.

When your have an invincible and invisible enemy, which you have to boringly PvE or Mission run against, it's just bad game design.

Or you can git gud

 

[sovapid]

I'll repeat myself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tGV7VVlhE

"I don't see it as a PvP game" - Braben, CEO Frontier.

Until you change his mind, you're "chasing your tail" (so to speak).

Hell, I don't want it to be a PVP game. I want it to be a large, grand game, where PVP is a part of it.

 

[EvE4evah]

I'll repeat myself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tGV7VVlhE

"I don't see it as a PvP game" - Braben, CEO Frontier.

Until you change his mind, you're "chasing your tail" (so to speak).

Much of DB's original, blurry and vague so-called "vision" has never been translated into the actual game, you know that. There's what's feasible and enjoyable gameplay, and there's what's impossible to implement and boring, anti-fun stuff. PvP might as well become the salvation for this game a few years onwards, we'll see… or we won't. Also, I haven't seen his presence as of lately, have you?

Edit: grammar enemy

 

[Jockey79]

*Right now I have a broken leg, broke it two weeks ago, surgery one week ago. I am sooooo bored of laying on the couch I am playing in Private right now because I am frequently stopping because I am uncomfortable. Even if I wasn't getting the open bonus, I'd still play.

You take care buddy. Plenty of rest, plenty of water (no idea why Doc always say that, but they are the experts *shrug*) and get well soon.
And remember, brand new rudder pedals would be a great way to exercise that leg once the plaster is off

 

[EvE4evah]

Players can role-play whatever they want. FD still overrides that with their BGS adjustments. Maybe, in the coming update, players may have more direct agency.



Or you can git gud

Gitting gud at PvE? May I tell you which crowd keeps on delivering fast, most efficient ways of doing anything PvE related? Including most efficient PvE ship fitting?
PvP groups are purposefully bad at PMF stuff, out of boredom, not out of incompetence.

Few reasons I can think of off the type of my head, but more dealing with Private Groups

* To play with friends who, for whatever their reasons are, don't want to play in Open.

*Right now I have a broken leg, broke it two weeks ago, surgery one week ago. I am sooooo bored of laying on the couch I am playing in Private right now because I am frequently stopping because I am uncomfortable. Even if I wasn't getting the open bonus, I'd still play.


Or something like Obsidian Orbital. If i remember right, it was built because of community goal. Having it exist in Solo/PG, but not in Open would just be too much of a disconnect for me.

And how do those things invalidate separating BGS?

BTW get better soon, buddy.
And I do like OP's ideas.

 

[Jockey79]

Much of DB's original, blurry and vague so-called "vision" has never been translated into the actual game,

I suppose that is a matter of perspective. Seems okay and on course to me.

PvP might as well become the salvation for this game a few years onwards, we'll see… or we won't.

Seen this in so many games, only one it ever seemed close to true was EVE Online.
Yet folks can avoid PvP in that if they want (stay in high sec, watch for new contacts etc).

PvP didn't save SWG, it didn't take over in STO, it's near death in Warframe despite being told otherwise by the PvP'ers.

I do believe WOW has more PvP servers than PvE server now.
But last I checked it was about 60%-40%, so PvP hadn't taken over btu was the stronger side.

Also, I haven't seen his presence as of lately, have you?

With Planet Coaster and the new Jurassic Park game, he is probably to busy to come and chill on a Dev stream or have a game specific interview right now.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Gitting gud at PvE? May I tell you which crowd keeps on delivering fast, most efficient ways of doing anything PvE related? Including most efficient PvE ship fitting?
PvP groups are purposefully bad at PMF stuff, out of boredom, not out of incompetence.

That then begs the question of why they bother? And then moan about it.

I have no need for crowds in games I enjoy, or of listening to squeakers or the drivel of inarticulate lulzbunnies. I pay no attention to the meta or efficient ship fitting, because that's not my game. I fly what I like, where I want to fly it, when I want to fly it, and do what I care to enjoy Elite

 

[kinglemo2000]

One thing in this argument that has been forgotten is the power of friends lists in matchmaking and instances, for example Player Group A controls a system that Player group B wants to target if group b has 10 players on and as many together as possible in wings and timed their jump into group A system the matchmaking server should prioritize them and put them in a instance together over matchmaking them with any of group A who are not on a friends list.

Also have you taken into account times of day you talk about being able to oppose a attack, Thats90kid talked about a lone wolf using solo to do this, but you can do this in open as well by just playing at the right time of day. Being retired I can play when I like but I notice how quiet open is between 800am and 200pm UK time when most people are at work or school in Europe a perfect time to UA bomb or attack local system authorities by the time you get on in the evening the damage is done

 

[EvE4evah]

You take care buddy. Plenty of rest, plenty of water (no idea why Doc always say that, but they are the experts *shrug*) and get well soon.
And remember, brand new rudder pedals would be a great way to exercise that leg once the plaster is off

All nice advice.

Docs have to remind people of drinking water because mobility restricted patients tend to drink less and many pathologies interfere with the CNS thirst center (in the hypothalamus IIRC)

 

[Rampant]

I didn't choose those hours randomly. Those are the hours of most affluence of players in the European time.

Anyway. What you say is not real. It is not the same stopping an action, than countering an action.
Just think a little and you will see that countering an action requiers more work and time than stopping the same action. The only difference is that for one you need to be connected in the same time than second one. Plus that I can choose 2 ways of action while in the other situation you are doom to do the same, like it or not.

But let's see what's going on in PP or a CG, where there are players doing actions 24h in the day...
"Do you understand yet?"

Yes - actually - what I'm saying *is* absolutely real.

It was you who mentioned having to pursue counter BGS play during a certain time frame. That's wrong. Any time will do.

You say you would have 2 means to counter BGS play. Bearing in mind the 4 platforms, P2P networking, and instancing mechanics, I'm saying you are largely not correct.

Direct consequence - are you now advocating a split in the BGS between the different platforms?

If not, then your position to increase perks for Open players in order that PvP combat is an option to counter BGS play - your position is not valid any more. Allow me to explain:

A PS4 player, playing in PS4 Open mode, pursuing a BGS attack on a PC player faction cannot be PvP combat defended against.

The PC player faction would be forced to BGS play. While the PS4 player would reap extra reward? (And therefore more weight to their BGS activity and potentially greater BGS "damage" as a consequence?)

What is being proposed simply hasn't been thought through. Has it now? Because, as you can see, it is ridiculous.

It really is very simple. In order that separate platforms are not "favoured", or actions taken in game are not unintentionally given larger reward for no extra risk simply because of the platform the player plays on, the only methods to ensure that is either the status quo, split BGS between platforms, or scrap 2 of the 3 play modes. Place your bets, please.

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[EvE4evah]

That then begs the question of why they bother? And then moan about it.

I have no need for crowds in games I enjoy, or of listening to squeakers or the drivel of inarticulate lulzbunnies. I pay no attention to the meta or efficient ship fitting, because that's not my game. I fly what I like, where I want to fly it, when I want to fly it, and do what I care to enjoy Elite

Buddy we bother because it *would* be a reason for conflict, you know, MPF territory wars and such? Being combat oriented (although not exclusively).

That then begs the question of why they bother? And then moan about it.

I have no need for crowds in games I enjoy, or of listening to squeakers or the drivel of inarticulate lulzbunnies. I pay no attention to the meta or efficient ship fitting, because that's not my game. I fly what I like, where I want to fly it, when I want to fly it, and do what I care to enjoy Elite

Also from your argument, why would you bother to affect other player's efforts results then?

 

[Jockey79]

... Thats90kid talked about a lone wolf using solo to do this, but you can do this in open as well by just playing at the right time of day. Being retired I can play when I like but I notice how quiet open is between 800am and 200pm UK time when most people are at work or school in Europe a prefect time to UA bomb or attack local system authorities by the time you get on in the evening the damage is done

We've said this, go check out the SOG 4 "Hotel California" thread. 90's was in that, with these same tired old arguments.
He was told then, he was told in the past few days.... he just refuses to accept at the centre of the Galaxy is Sag A, not him.

I mean really, click the thread post count number for "Hotel California", find the names of whom you want to check and click their post counter to see what they posted in that thread.
We really have been through this in great detail.

But hey. It gives me someone to talk to when I'm not in game - so I don't mind repeating myself.....

....again;
....and again;
........and again;
............and again;
................and again;
....................and again;

 

[kinglemo2000]

Yes - actually - what I'm saying *is* absolutely real.

It was you who mentioned having to pursue counter BGS play during a certain time frame. That's wrong. Any time will do.

You say you would have 2 means to counter BGS play. Bearing in mind the 4 platforms, P2P networking, and instancing mechanics, I'm saying you are largely not correct.

Direct consequence - are you now advocating a split in the BGS between the different platforms?

If not, then your position to increase perks for Open players in order that PvP combat is an option to counter BGS play - your position is not valid any more. Allow me to explain:

A PS4 player, playing in PS4 Open mode, pursuing a BGS attack on a PC player faction cannot be PvP combat defended against.

The PC player faction would be forced to BGS play. While the PS4 player would reap extra reward? (And therefore more weight to their BGS activity and potentially greater BGS "damage" as a consequence?)

What is being proposed simply hasn't been thought through. Has it now? Because, as you can see, it is ridiculous.

It really is very simple. In order that separate platforms are not "favoured", or actions taken in game are not unintentionally given larger reward for no extra risk simply because of the platform the player plays on, the only methods to ensure that is either the status quo, split BGS between platforms, or scrap 2 of the 3 play modes. Place your bets, please.

Yours Aye

Mark H

excellent point that has been overlooked

 

[Asp Explorer]

Also from your argument, why would you bother to affect other player's efforts results then?

Quite simply, because actions affect the game. It's up to the game to affect other players.

 

[EvE4evah]

Yes - actually - what I'm saying *is* absolutely real.

It was you who mentioned having to pursue counter BGS play during a certain time frame. That's wrong. Any time will do.

You say you would have 2 means to counter BGS play. Bearing in mind the 4 platforms, P2P networking, and instancing mechanics, I'm saying you are largely not correct.

Direct consequence - are you now advocating a split in the BGS between the different platforms?

If not, then your position to increase perks for Open players in order that PvP combat is an option to counter BGS play - your position is not valid any more. Allow me to explain:

A PS4 player, playing in PS4 Open mode, pursuing a BGS attack on a PC player faction cannot be PvP combat defended against.

The PC player faction would be forced to BGS play. While the PS4 player would reap extra reward? (And therefore more weight to their BGS activity and potentially greater BGS "damage" as a consequence?)

What is being proposed simply hasn't been thought through. Has it now? Because, as you can see, it is ridiculous.

It really is very simple. In order that separate platforms are not "favoured", or actions taken in game are not unintentionally given larger reward for no extra risk simply because of the platform the player plays on, the only methods to ensure that is either the status quo, split BGS between platforms, or scrap 2 of the 3 play modes. Place your bets, please.

Yours Aye

Mark H

BGS being spread between platforms is a difficulty but in no way a hard deterrent for PvP directed BGS. If anything, it has the potential to integrate groups of different platforms. Some groups already do this, such as the Wolves of Jonai.

Edit: shame on me, I've forgotten my very own Corp… MSR is in a large alliance that includes PC Corps. Although as I've said, I PvP in an Alt account only.